September 21st, 2007, 09:05 AM
A must see video clip for anyone. Be sure to watch all the way to the end. Hollywood can't copy this kind of drama. Absolutely amazing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
A must see video clip for anyone. Be sure to watch all the way to the end. Hollywood can't copy this kind of drama. Absolutely amazing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Executive Member
Posts: 9,136 
September 21st, 2007, 09:46 AM
Thanks Karrie
Quoting karrie
That was an excellent video. If the Cape Buffalo learned from this, one would think these lions are going to get a bit hungry in the future. When the herd worked together the lions were hopelessly out muscled. I've read a lot about African wild life but seeing the herd take back their captured calf from the whole pride of lions was unbelievable.
A must see video clip for anyone. Be sure to watch all the way to the end. Hollywood can't copy this kind of drama. Absolutely amazing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Thanks Karrie
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,516
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
September 21st, 2007, 10:11 AM
holy cow, that was good.
Call me a cynic, though, but the calf probably died of shock and/or infection anyway
holy cow, that was good.
Call me a cynic, though, but the calf probably died of shock and/or infection anyway
Executive Member
Posts: 9,136
September 21st, 2007, 10:30 AM
Quoting hermanntrude
Yeah I thought as much. The lions chewed on the calf for quite a while and the crocodile also had a hold of it and that probably done some nasty damage. I was rooting for the buffalo even though I know that these are animals just doing what they do.
holy cow, that was good.
Call me a cynic, though, but the calf probably died of shock and/or infection anyway
Call me a cynic, though, but the calf probably died of shock and/or infection anyway
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,351
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
September 21st, 2007, 10:39 AM
Calf doesn't have much of a chance in the wild. Windmill on the horizon makes me think it's a game preserve so the calf will be better attended than people in Africa. If not, a hyena will have lunch.
Poor ol' croc lost out big time....
Wolf
Calf doesn't have much of a chance in the wild. Windmill on the horizon makes me think it's a game preserve so the calf will be better attended than people in Africa. If not, a hyena will have lunch.
Poor ol' croc lost out big time....
Wolf
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,858
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
September 21st, 2007, 11:08 AM
Excellent video indeed.
Some things I noticed in the video is that it looks to be somewhere around mid day, not much for shadows so it's not the lions hunting time. They are laying down so probably they've fed not too long ago. It isn't an ambush as they lions are at rest so it's the buffalo walking into the pride unaware.
Once the gift falls into their lap the lions are quick to capitalize on the mistake. Naturally they go for the easiest catch and probably there were three lions really on that calf. One biting the neck, another holding it and a third moved to the back of the calf to secure it. At one point I think there are 7 lions around and on the calf.
Two crocs and one for sure got a pretty good purchase on the hind of the calf.
So the lions dragging the calf out of the water and the cops of the croc must have created some extreme force on that calf.
Probably the lion who was working the kill bite on the calf must have had the opportunity to really lock it in through all of that and must have damaged the calf's neck and throat.
But something striking is that once the calf got loose it made for the protection of the herd and as far as I could see, never limped at all.
Head was up in the usual manner.
So if the calf can have it's leg in the jaws of a Croc and be ripped from them by lions and walk away without a limp, maybe the neck and throat damage as significant as they must be, aren't lethal to the calf. Probably being what they are, they have a pretty robust immune system too so maybe infection isn't as big a factor as you might expect it to be after that action.
Something I've gotten out of this video is how rough it must be living in the boring old zoo.
Excellent video indeed.
Some things I noticed in the video is that it looks to be somewhere around mid day, not much for shadows so it's not the lions hunting time. They are laying down so probably they've fed not too long ago. It isn't an ambush as they lions are at rest so it's the buffalo walking into the pride unaware.
Once the gift falls into their lap the lions are quick to capitalize on the mistake. Naturally they go for the easiest catch and probably there were three lions really on that calf. One biting the neck, another holding it and a third moved to the back of the calf to secure it. At one point I think there are 7 lions around and on the calf.
Two crocs and one for sure got a pretty good purchase on the hind of the calf.
So the lions dragging the calf out of the water and the cops of the croc must have created some extreme force on that calf.
Probably the lion who was working the kill bite on the calf must have had the opportunity to really lock it in through all of that and must have damaged the calf's neck and throat.
But something striking is that once the calf got loose it made for the protection of the herd and as far as I could see, never limped at all.
Head was up in the usual manner.
So if the calf can have it's leg in the jaws of a Croc and be ripped from them by lions and walk away without a limp, maybe the neck and throat damage as significant as they must be, aren't lethal to the calf. Probably being what they are, they have a pretty robust immune system too so maybe infection isn't as big a factor as you might expect it to be after that action.
Something I've gotten out of this video is how rough it must be living in the boring old zoo.
September 21st, 2007, 12:29 PM
Quoting hermanntrude
I thought the same thing... it would have been a kinder fate to die with the crocs.
holy cow, that was good.
Call me a cynic, though, but the calf probably died of shock and/or infection anyway
Call me a cynic, though, but the calf probably died of shock and/or infection anyway
Executive Member
Posts: 9,136
September 21st, 2007, 01:12 PM
Quoting Unforgiven
That was a pretty sound analysis. I just watched it again on the big screen and the Lioness that got hooked might take a serious injury away from this battle as well. It was a 450 lb cat and being thrown ten feet in the air on the point of a horn probably wouldn't do her a lot of good either.
Excellent video indeed.
Some things I noticed in the video is that it looks to be somewhere around mid day, not much for shadows so it's not the lions hunting time. They are laying down so probably they've fed not too long ago. It isn't an ambush as they lions are at rest so it's the buffalo walking into the pride unaware.
Once the gift falls into their lap the lions are quick to capitalize on the mistake. Naturally they go for the easiest catch and probably there were three lions really on that calf. One biting the neck, another holding it and a third moved to the back of the calf to secure it. At one point I think there are 7 lions around and on the calf.
Two crocs and one for sure got a pretty good purchase on the hind of the calf.
So the lions dragging the calf out of the water and the cops of the croc must have created some extreme force on that calf.
Probably the lion who was working the kill bite on the calf must have had the opportunity to really lock it in through all of that and must have damaged the calf's neck and throat.
But something striking is that once the calf got loose it made for the protection of the herd and as far as I could see, never limped at all.
Head was up in the usual manner.
So if the calf can have it's leg in the jaws of a Croc and be ripped from them by lions and walk away without a limp, maybe the neck and throat damage as significant as they must be, aren't lethal to the calf. Probably being what they are, they have a pretty robust immune system too so maybe infection isn't as big a factor as you might expect it to be after that action.
Something I've gotten out of this video is how rough it must be living in the boring old zoo.
Some things I noticed in the video is that it looks to be somewhere around mid day, not much for shadows so it's not the lions hunting time. They are laying down so probably they've fed not too long ago. It isn't an ambush as they lions are at rest so it's the buffalo walking into the pride unaware.
Once the gift falls into their lap the lions are quick to capitalize on the mistake. Naturally they go for the easiest catch and probably there were three lions really on that calf. One biting the neck, another holding it and a third moved to the back of the calf to secure it. At one point I think there are 7 lions around and on the calf.
Two crocs and one for sure got a pretty good purchase on the hind of the calf.
So the lions dragging the calf out of the water and the cops of the croc must have created some extreme force on that calf.
Probably the lion who was working the kill bite on the calf must have had the opportunity to really lock it in through all of that and must have damaged the calf's neck and throat.
But something striking is that once the calf got loose it made for the protection of the herd and as far as I could see, never limped at all.
Head was up in the usual manner.
So if the calf can have it's leg in the jaws of a Croc and be ripped from them by lions and walk away without a limp, maybe the neck and throat damage as significant as they must be, aren't lethal to the calf. Probably being what they are, they have a pretty robust immune system too so maybe infection isn't as big a factor as you might expect it to be after that action.
Something I've gotten out of this video is how rough it must be living in the boring old zoo.
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,858
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
September 21st, 2007, 01:42 PM
Was that a young male lion I saw trotting off once the buffalo returned?
Didn't have a full mane but it looked a bit shaggier than the others.
Quoting #juan
Exactly what I thought too I just forgot to add that. Those kicks are lethal too. Tough animals though to say the least. Probably a different outcome if the lions were really hungry and out hunting in the evening or early morning.
That was a pretty sound analysis. I just watched it again on the big screen and the Lioness that got hooked might take a serious injury away from this battle as well. It was a 450 lb cat and being thrown ten feet in the air on the point of a horn probably wouldn't do her a lot of good either.
Was that a young male lion I saw trotting off once the buffalo returned?
Didn't have a full mane but it looked a bit shaggier than the others.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,136
September 21st, 2007, 02:11 PM
The young lion that trotted off before the big fight started was probably a young male. The big, belligerent bull that went after the lions first when the herd came back was likely the one that came trotting back through to throw that lioness in the air......He seemed to be looking for a fight.
Quoting Unforgiven
It might have been a different outcome if the pride adult males had been around as well. There wasn't a big maned lion in the bunch. Females do the bulk of the hunting but the males would generally handled a kind of territorial thing like this was. I'm not setting myself up as any kind of super authority, but I have been hooked on African wildlife programing for many years
Exactly what I thought too I just forgot to add that. Those kicks are lethal too. Tough animals though to say the least. Probably a different outcome if the lions were really hungry and out hunting in the evening or early morning.
Was that a young male lion I saw trotting off once the buffalo returned?
Didn't have a full mane but it looked a bit shaggier than the others.
Was that a young male lion I saw trotting off once the buffalo returned?
Didn't have a full mane but it looked a bit shaggier than the others.
The young lion that trotted off before the big fight started was probably a young male. The big, belligerent bull that went after the lions first when the herd came back was likely the one that came trotting back through to throw that lioness in the air......He seemed to be looking for a fight.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,516
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
September 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM
by the way. A note for all north americans:
what you see in this video is a buffalo.
The things you have here are BISON.
by the way. A note for all north americans:
what you see in this video is a buffalo.
The things you have here are BISON.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,136
September 21st, 2007, 02:39 PM
Quoting hermanntrude
You are right Herman but I think this is a relatively recent thing. My family, going back to the American civil war and beyond called them buffalo. Bill Cody was called Buffalo Bill, not Bison Bill. Buffalo robes were called buffalo robes...etc. I would bet that if one followed the old migratory trail of the Bison down through the prairie states, you would find that most people still call them buffalo.
by the way. A note for all north americans:
what you see in this video is a buffalo.
The things you have here are BISON.
what you see in this video is a buffalo.
The things you have here are BISON.
September 21st, 2007, 02:49 PM
Some things will always stay 'incorrect' simply because of the heritage behind them. Try finding Head-Smashed-In Bison Jump. lol.
Quoting hermanntrude
Otherwise known as North American buffalo.
The things you have here are BISON.
Some things will always stay 'incorrect' simply because of the heritage behind them. Try finding Head-Smashed-In Bison Jump. lol.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,516
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
September 21st, 2007, 03:28 PM
Quoting karrie
ha! good point. I've been there:
Otherwise known as North American buffalo.
Some things will always stay 'incorrect' simply because of the heritage behind them. Try finding Head-Smashed-In Bison Jump. lol.
Some things will always stay 'incorrect' simply because of the heritage behind them. Try finding Head-Smashed-In Bison Jump. lol.
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,858
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
September 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM
Then to think that there is a sport of climbing on the back of something like that and holding on for 8 seconds without getting killed. heh heh What a world.
I wonder what communications were going on between the cats and then the herd. That bull seemed almost to gather the courage of the herd up and got them to return for the calf. They seemed more confident as he raged into the lions and a few started backing off.
Really two very effective and intelligent tactics by the buffalo at once there. The phalanx and the raging bull. The questions that raised is first the learned behaviour to cooperate in the phalanx and the second what got the single bull so enraged? The mother of the calf I can easily understand, but to the bull, the calf would be one of many. So I wonder if it was instead of a territorial thing with the bull, it was more of a startled reflex long the lines of fight or flight response. Sure worked great!
Quoting #juan
The scale of that is lost until you see something like this and even then it's almost out of perspective as both animals are sizable creatures. Tossing that cat like a 20 pound sack of potatoes as though it's an after thought.
It might have been a different outcome if the pride adult males had been around as well. There wasn't a big maned lion in the bunch. Females do the bulk of the hunting but the males would generally handled a kind of territorial thing like this was. I'm not setting myself up as any kind of super authority, but I have been hooked on African wildlife programing for many years
The young lion that trotted off before the big fight started was probably a young male. The big, belligerent bull that went after the lions first when the herd came back was likely the one that came trotting back through to throw that lioness in the air......He seemed to be looking for a fight.
The young lion that trotted off before the big fight started was probably a young male. The big, belligerent bull that went after the lions first when the herd came back was likely the one that came trotting back through to throw that lioness in the air......He seemed to be looking for a fight.
Then to think that there is a sport of climbing on the back of something like that and holding on for 8 seconds without getting killed. heh heh What a world.
I wonder what communications were going on between the cats and then the herd. That bull seemed almost to gather the courage of the herd up and got them to return for the calf. They seemed more confident as he raged into the lions and a few started backing off.
Really two very effective and intelligent tactics by the buffalo at once there. The phalanx and the raging bull. The questions that raised is first the learned behaviour to cooperate in the phalanx and the second what got the single bull so enraged? The mother of the calf I can easily understand, but to the bull, the calf would be one of many. So I wonder if it was instead of a territorial thing with the bull, it was more of a startled reflex long the lines of fight or flight response. Sure worked great!
Executive Member
Posts: 9,136
September 21st, 2007, 04:19 PM
Yes it did work well. Two or three years ago on National Geographic or Nova or one of those, there was a two hour special on a pride of lions and the local pack, group, whatever the collective word is for a bunch of Hyenas. Anyway......The females of the pride had brought down a wildebeest and the hyenas moved in and drove them off the kill and actually put about six or seven lionesses up a tree. Later, the males were back and when the hyenas got too close the big male lions killed a couple. Still later one of the big male lions ran the dominant hyena down on the open plain and killed her.
In Karrie's video, a couple of big males if they were there, might have pulled down another buffalo and that might have changed the complexion of the whole battle........maybe.....
Quoting Unforgiven
The scale of that is lost until you see something like this and even then it's almost out of perspective as both animals are sizable creatures. Tossing that cat like a 20 pound sack of potatoes as though it's an after thought.
Then to think that there is a sport of climbing on the back of something like that and holding on for 8 seconds without getting killed. heh heh What a world.
I wonder what communications were going on between the cats and then the herd. That bull seemed almost to gather the courage of the herd up and got them to return for the calf. They seemed more confident as he raged into the lions and a few started backing off.
Really two very effective and intelligent tactics by the buffalo at once there. The phalanx and the raging bull. The questions that raised is first the learned behaviour to cooperate in the phalanx and the second what got the single bull so enraged? The mother of the calf I can easily understand, but to the bull, the calf would be one of many. So I wonder if it was instead of a territorial thing with the bull, it was more of a startled reflex long the lines of fight or flight response. Sure worked great!
Then to think that there is a sport of climbing on the back of something like that and holding on for 8 seconds without getting killed. heh heh What a world.
I wonder what communications were going on between the cats and then the herd. That bull seemed almost to gather the courage of the herd up and got them to return for the calf. They seemed more confident as he raged into the lions and a few started backing off.
Really two very effective and intelligent tactics by the buffalo at once there. The phalanx and the raging bull. The questions that raised is first the learned behaviour to cooperate in the phalanx and the second what got the single bull so enraged? The mother of the calf I can easily understand, but to the bull, the calf would be one of many. So I wonder if it was instead of a territorial thing with the bull, it was more of a startled reflex long the lines of fight or flight response. Sure worked great!
Yes it did work well. Two or three years ago on National Geographic or Nova or one of those, there was a two hour special on a pride of lions and the local pack, group, whatever the collective word is for a bunch of Hyenas. Anyway......The females of the pride had brought down a wildebeest and the hyenas moved in and drove them off the kill and actually put about six or seven lionesses up a tree. Later, the males were back and when the hyenas got too close the big male lions killed a couple. Still later one of the big male lions ran the dominant hyena down on the open plain and killed her.
In Karrie's video, a couple of big males if they were there, might have pulled down another buffalo and that might have changed the complexion of the whole battle........maybe.....
