Another Children's Book Censored .....

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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I can see Librarian's point - but I wonder if children are exposed to far more than a word in a book - if one accounts for the ads in magazines, the television smut, the PG rating which is a laugh.... and all the other words kids get to "learn".... I think I would probably let this one off the hook, but that is my opinion only..... I again state that words which are "verbotten" and censored often become admired vocabulary as much as forbidden fruit to kids. I wonder what the moms think about it...

With One Word Children's Book Sets Off Uproar
By JULIE BOSMAN

Published: February 18, 2007
The word “scrotum” does not often appear in polite conversation. Or children’s literature, for that matter.
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A Newbery-winning book has been banned from some school libraries around the country.

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Alex Koester for The New York Times
Susan Patron, the author of the book and a librarian, said the controversial word was just part of the character’s learning about body parts.



Yet there it is on the first page of “The Higher Power of Lucky,” by Susan Patron, this year’s winner of the Newbery Medal, the most prestigious award in children’s literature. The book’s heroine, a scrappy 10-year-old orphan named Lucky Trimble, hears the word through a hole in a wall when another character says he saw a rattlesnake bite his dog, Roy, on the scrotum.
“Scrotum sounded to Lucky like something green that comes up when you have the flu and cough too much,” the book continues. “It sounded medical and secret, but also important.”
The inclusion of the word has shocked some school librarians, who have pledged to ban the book from elementary schools, and reopened the debate over what constitutes acceptable content in children’s books. The controversy was first reported by Publishers Weekly, a trade magazine.
On electronic mailing lists like Librarian.net, dozens of literary blogs and pages on the social-networking site LiveJournal, teachers, authors and school librarians took sides over the book. Librarians from all over the country, including Missoula, Mont.; upstate New York; Central Pennsylvania; and Portland, Ore., weighed in, questioning the role of the librarian when selecting — or censoring, some argued — literature for children.
“This book included what I call a Howard Stern-type shock treatment just to see how far they could push the envelope, but they didn’t have the children in mind,” Dana Nilsson, a teacher and librarian in Durango, Colo., wrote on LM_Net, a mailing list that reaches more than 16,000 school librarians. “How very sad.”
The book has already been banned from school libraries in a handful of states in the South, the West and the Northeast, and librarians in other schools have indicated in the online debate that they may well follow suit. Indeed, the topic has dominated the discussion among librarians since the book was shipped to schools.
Pat Scales, a former chairwoman of the Newbery Award committee, said that declining to stock the book in libraries was nothing short of censorship.
“The people who are reacting to that word are not reading the book as a whole,” she said. “That’s what censors do — they pick out words and don’t look at the total merit of the book.”
If it were any other novel, it probably would have gone unnoticed, unordered and unread. But in the world of children’s books, winning a Newbery is the rough equivalent of being selected as an Oprah’s Book Club title. Libraries and bookstores routinely order two or more copies of each year’s winners, with the books read aloud to children and taught in classrooms.
“The Higher Power of Lucky” was first published in November by Atheneum/Richard Jackson Books, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, accompanied by a modest print run of 10,000. After the announcement of the Newbery on Jan. 22, the publisher quickly ordered another 100,000 copies, which arrived in bookstores, schools and libraries around Feb. 5.
Reached at her home in Los Angeles, Ms. Patron said she was stunned by the objections. The story of the rattlesnake bite, she said, was based on a true incident involving a friend’s dog.
And one of the themes of the book is that Lucky is preparing herself to be a grown-up, Ms. Patron said. Learning about language and body parts, then, is very important to her.
“The word is just so delicious,” Ms. Patron said. “The sound of the word to Lucky is so evocative. It’s one of those words that’s so interesting because of the sound of the word.”
Ms. Patron, who is a public librarian in Los Angeles, said the book was written for children 9 to 12 years old. But some librarians countered that since the heroine of “The Higher Power of Lucky” is 10, children older than that would not be interested in reading it.
“I think it’s a good case of an author not realizing her audience,” said Frederick Muller, a librarian at Halsted Middle School in Newton, N.J. “If I were a third- or fourth-grade teacher, I wouldn’t want to have to explain that.”
Authors of children’s books sometimes sneak in a single touchy word or paragraph, leaving librarians to choose whether to ban an entire book over one offending phrase.
In the case of “Lucky,” some of them take no chances. Wendy Stoll, a librarian at Smyrna Elementary in Louisville, Ky., wrote on the LM_Net mailing list that she would not stock the book. Andrea Koch, the librarian at French Road Elementary School in Brighton, N.Y., said she anticipated angry calls from parents if she ordered it. “I don’t think our teachers, or myself, want to do that vocabulary lesson,” she said in an interview. One librarian who responded to Ms. Nilsson’s posting on LM_Net said only: “Sad to say, I didn’t order it for either of my schools, based on ‘the word.’ ”
Booksellers, too, are watchful for racy content in books they endorse to customers. Carol Chittenden, the owner of Eight Cousins, a bookstore in Falmouth, Mass., said she once horrified a customer with “The Adventures of Blue Avenger” by Norma Howe, a novel aimed at junior high school students. “I remember one time showing the book to a grandmother and enthusing about it,” she said. “There’s a chapter in there that’s very funny and the word ‘condom’ comes up. And of course, she opens the book right to the page that said ‘condom.’ ”
It is not the first time school librarians have squirmed at a book’s content, of course. Some school officials have tried to ban Harry Potter books from schools, saying that they implicitly endorse witchcraft and Satanism. Young adult books by Judy Blume, though decades old, are routinely kept out of school libraries.
Ms. Nilsson, reached at Sunnyside Elementary School in Durango, Colo., said she had heard from dozens of librarians who agreed with her stance. “I don’t want to start an issue about censorship,” she said. “But you won’t find men’s genitalia in quality literature.”
“At least not for children,” she added.
 

canadarocks

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2006
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I'm sort of divided about this issue, to be honest. I don't see anything wrong with a library doing so to keep unacceptable material out of the hands of children on one hand, yet on the other hand i dislike the idea of someone else deciding what is acceptable for my children to be exposed to.
 

temperance

Electoral Member
Sep 27, 2006
622
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What the word scrotum --oh this is totally frigged up --come on what a better Way to explain about a body part --than by introducing words ,,The role of parent is to censor what (you as the parent feels your own child should be exposed to ) I'm sure there are alot worse items in the library that need to be focused on --Its the parents choice ,the Libray is public, we do allow Librarians to watch over our library's but they are everyones ,and everyone has the choice to pick the book up or not --DUH
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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All's I would wonder is if this wasn't an intended kind of thing- I know I wouldn't be hearing about this book if the word "scrotum" wasn't in there, after all, like that Janet Jackson thing at the Stupor Bowl a few years ago- I hate football and I still saw that crap MANY times, not by choice...

I try not to use words like "anus", "scrotum" and "smegma" when I'm talking with kids (Okay maybe an understatement there, I actually DO NOT use them terms in general discourse)

Now, if there was a situation where somehow one of them words had to be used, my judgement would tell me that I should probably leave whatever the coinversation is/was about to the parents

I hardly see this as some kind of witch-hunt- I know if a 6 year old kid asked ME a question that contained the word "Scrotum", tho, I would prolly suggest that they should ask mommy or daddy and hope that was the end of it

If our society weren't so litigious, I could see being "dictionary" about it, but these days I am afraid to even LOOK at kids for the most part after seeing what can happen when MEGA protective parents get uppity (not calling anyone anything there, either, I don't have kids but would consider myself slightly overprotective of my Doggie and my family and friends)

So what heppens when a parent (and I'm talkin the kind who write letters, LOTS of letters) is reading to their kid and stumbles onto the word "Scrotum" in a book?? While I see nothing wrong with it, if it's in a public library in the "kids" section, I can see loonies having problems with it- so might as well just play it safe.
How bout the word "Vulva"?? You know, if the book were marketted as "the get-to-know your WHOLE anatomy, sexual bits included" then it's fine, but opening the "sex" talk in the middle of a light read is kinda out of line
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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yes, by all means, ban the word scrotum from the lives of little children. It is so much wiser to let them carry on talking about hoo-hoos and ha-has and wee-wees until the magical day in grade 7 when a health nurse comes in and teaches them all the correct terms in a three hour session that leaves them so overloaded with taboo information that they can't possibly learn it all and collapse into nervous fits of giggling. Brilliant.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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So what heppens when a parent (and I'm talkin the kind who write letters, LOTS of letters) is reading to their kid and stumbles onto the word "Scrotum" in a book??

I have signed out a book from the library before that set the computers off when the librarian rang it out. She looked at the screen, and said "The library would like to suggest that you read this children's book before you read it to your children, as it contains some objectionable material." I laughed, thinking to myself "What could be so objectionable?" That book never got read to my kids. The book was all about a dog who dreams of managing to catch the mailman's fingers through the mail slot in the door, and VIVIDLY described the process of pulling him through and eating him, complete with the popping of his eyeballs as he muched them down. Can't remember the title for the life of me. But, it seemed a pretty no nonesense approach from the library's side of things.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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All's I'm sayin is that SOME folks would rasie Cain, and I could kinda see why- did I anywher ein my post suggest that kids should be totally insulated form words?? No.
That is all...

Oh and if the library DID do such things in ALL cases, that would work too, but then there's warnings on packages etc and folks STILL try to sue, if ya get me
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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All's I'm sayin is that SOME folks would rasie Cain, and I could kinda see why- did I anywher ein my post suggest that kids should be totally insulated form words?? No.
That is all...

Oh and if the library DID do such things in ALL cases, that would work too, but then there's warnings on packages etc and folks STILL try to sue, if ya get me

I'm confused, the only thing I replied to you was how the library here dealt with a similarly questionable book. Where did you get that I was saying you were expecting children be totally insulated from all words?

And, if there's a label on the package, people can not successfully sue for its contents. We can'tkeep all people from suing all the time. Pop a sticker on the book saying it contains objectionable words pertaining to reproduction, and people can sue all they want. That's their right. We're all free to waste our time as we see fit. lol.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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this is what gave me the "wrong impression"
yes, by all means, ban the word scrotum from the lives of little children. It is so much wiser to let them carry on talking about hoo-hoos and ha-has and wee-wees until the magical day in grade 7 when a health nurse comes in and teaches them all the correct terms in a three hour session that leaves them so overloaded with taboo information that they can't possibly learn it all and collapse into nervous fits of giggling. Brilliant.

I must have read it wrong :D
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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this is what gave me the "wrong impression"


I must have read it wrong :D

That's not a reply to you. That's my post regarding the original post. Typically, when replying to someone specific, you quote them so you're both on the same page. I can see your confusion. So much gets talked about in such a short time in these threads. lol.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
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That's not a reply to you. That's my post regarding the original post. Typically, when replying to someone specific, you quote them so you're both on the same page. I can see your confusion. So much gets talked about in such a short time in these threads. lol.

It seems to me that children start asking questions about the names of the parts of their bodies at a pretty young age. I mean really ... don't parents start it all with things like "where's your nose ...?". Some parents will use made up words for body parts that they're uncomfortable naming, but plenty of parents are secure enough in their own sexuality to give the correct names. I say let the book be available to everyone ... it might actually encourage the sexually repressed parents to open up a bit when their child asks about the scrotum.
 

Ariadne

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Aug 7, 2006
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On second thoughts ... how many precocious little girls are going to ask the boys if they can see their scrotum ???
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Most kids in my family have pets .... male and female pets.... and can tell the difference by looking for the "equipment" in the right places...the story was about a dog's being bitten somewhere to the rear....

I have no idea what kids call the male dogs' scrotums.... but apparently nothing of note is made because it is part of the dogs' bodies just as their ears and paws are....

I am inclined to believe kids react to "reaction" from grownups....and if a clinical word is used to describe a private area of the body animal or human..... is this wrong?

The word was used regarding a dog... perhaps young kids wouldn't even bother with the word which seemed unfamiliar and assumed it was part of a dog's rear end "somewhere"....

If it is a good book for kids to read other than the "bad word".... I guess the publicity will sell more copies for the author.

Thank god for caring parents!
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
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Most kids in my family have pets .... male and female pets.... and can tell the difference by looking for the "equipment" in the right places...the story was about a dog's being bitten somewhere to the rear....

I have no idea what kids call the male dogs' scrotums.... but apparently nothing of note is made because it is part of the dogs' bodies just as their ears and paws are....

I am inclined to believe kids react to "reaction" from grownups....and if a clinical word is used to describe a private area of the body animal or human..... is this wrong?

The word was used regarding a dog... perhaps young kids wouldn't even bother with the word which seemed unfamiliar and assumed it was part of a dog's rear end "somewhere"....

If it is a good book for kids to read other than the "bad word".... I guess the publicity will sell more copies for the author.

Thank god for caring parents!

You're so right. Children take everything in stride if it's presented in a normal way. Baby-talking adults drive me absolutely mad because I think it's insulting to the intelligence of the child. Babies are not stupid, they just haven't learned things yet. Why teach them the wrong words and try to correct them later when they can just teach the right words ... and concepts ... and all the rest of it from the beginning.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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On second thoughts ... how many precocious little girls are going to ask the boys if they can see their scrotum ???

"Can I see your privates?"
"Can I see your wee-wee?"
"Can I see your pecker?"
"Can I see your penis?"
"Can I see your scrotum?"

If a kid is going to ask, does it really matter what word they ask with?
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
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"Can I see your privates?"
"Can I see your wee-wee?"
"Can I see your pecker?"
"Can I see your penis?"
"Can I see your scrotum?"

If a kid is going to ask, does it really matter what word they ask with?

It doesn't really matter what word they use so long as they are referring to the same anatomical part. The point is that a book including the word will introduce it to little girls. I think that most little girls are not aware of that part of a mammal's anatomy.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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It doesn't really matter what word they use so long as they are referring to the same anatomical part. The point is that a book including the word will introduce it to little girls. I think that most little girls are not aware of that part of a mammal's anatomy.

True true. I don't think my six year old daughter knows specifically what a scrotum is, but she does know what testicles are. It would be simple to explain it if that word were brought up. Or, it would be simple to not read a book to her with the word in it, whichever I as a parent decided was preferable. Personally, I'd rather educate my daughter, so that she doesn't have to ask some little boy to educate her instead. lol.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
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True true. I don't think my six year old daughter knows specifically what a scrotum is, but she does know what testicles are. It would be simple to explain it if that word were brought up. Or, it would be simple to not read a book to her with the word in it, whichever I as a parent decided was preferable. Personally, I'd rather educate my daughter, so that she doesn't have to ask some little boy to educate her instead. lol.

My son learned all about the scrotum when his best friend's big brother learned sex ed in grade 7. The grade 7 boys made up a song (can't remember the exact words and don't want to ask) and eagerly shared it with all the younger children.

I like your idea about educating children. I never taught my daughters funny words and they seem to have managed just fine with anatomically correct language for the human body. I found that they ask different questions as they get older. When they're 4 or 5, a simple answer suffices and when they're 11 or 12, a more detailed answer is required ... all in good time.

If I was reading the book to a small child, I might replace the word scrotum with something a little more neutral, depending on the age of the child. Some children start reading at a very young age so that would be where some problems could occur. I wouldn't exactly know what to say to a 4 year old girl asking about the scrotum ... I think. I'd probably burst out laughing and avoid the question ... I know ... totally inappropriate.