Newbie
Posts: 1 
July 26th, 2005, 04:48 PM
In February 2005, my boyfriend paid his BUSINESS cell phone bill for the month of January in the amount of 606.73 at the bank. We kept the bill with the bank's stamp on it. When we received February's bill in March we saw that the amount of 606.73 showed up on the bill. We called Bell, it had already gone into their accounts receivable department. We explained that we paid the bill, and we had the proof in our hands.... Bell informed us that it was not their problem they had supposedly not received the payment and we needed to speak to someone at the bank. We did that, our bank told us they would contact Bell and fax them information. Bill after bill, the 606.73 was still showing up, again talking to the bank they were having problems dealing with Bell, becasue the bank could not understand what they need, they were faxing everything they had (proof that the money was sent to bell mobility, our bill with the stamp on it, they even went as far as sending a record of that particular days money paid out to EVERYONE that they made a payment to). In May our cell phone WAS CUT OFF. We had been making payments minus the 606.73 every month, and there were notes in our Customer File that were faxing items to them. It's not like we told them to screw off, we were trying as hard as we could to get this taken care of....
I began dealing with Bell leaving my boyfriend and the bank out of it. I got the items faxed to me at work from the bank. I faxed them to Bell,(between the bank and myseld this was the 6th fax) on May 30th (which I kept a copy of), stating on the cover sheet for the fax, that these were directly from the bank manager. If this is not satisfactory to CALL ME. I gave them my work number and ext. No one called me, so I think the problem is taken care of, then the phone was shut of again on June 22nd. I called Acct. Receivable again. I spoke to Stephan, again he told me that fax didn't prove to them the payment was made. I was very calm and collected. I didn't speak rudely to him I let him know my frustrations. I told him that on my previous fax, I indicated on it to call me if the information was not satisfactory... his response... well they don't actually read the cover letters of faxes. ??????????? Ridiculous. So I told him that I would fax it again. With some changes (I actually thought I knew what they needed..... after 4 months) On June 23rd faxed it to the Attn of Stephan with his initials? TRM? Whatever, he told me it take 24-48 hours for him to see a fax.... again ridiculous... but whatever.... he told me he would call me on June 28th. No call... surprise, surprise. So I called again, spoke to Daniel, explained the situation again, he told me they never received that fax. And he told me that I probably sent it to the wrong number. After 5 months of dealing with this, do they think I am stupid enough not to check the fax number?????? So I said fine, I'll fax it again, this time I kept the confirmation from my fax machine (8th fax now). I was told to call back July 5th, which I did. Again the person I spoke to me that the fax was not received. So I told him I wanted to talk to his supervisor. I got Kim.... she didn't even let me explain my situation. She kept interjecting into the conversation, until I finally said Do not talk until I am finished. I was a supervisor of a call centre, so I know how they work, believe me, I would have wanted to know all about the stupid crap my CSR's were telling people on the phone. So all she did was tell me to fax it again. I said no I am not faxing this again. I have a confirmation from my fax machine to yours. So you go and find that fax, cause its there. Then she told me that I had to abide by the policies and procedures of bell mobility...... (I must of missed the part where i wasn't), I told her that i wanted another fax number to send it directly to her... she didn't have one. So I said fine, put me through to your supervisor. She told me she didn't have one. So I said listen here, I was a supervisor of a call centre, I know your lingo, I know you have a supervisor sitting there, so just make this easy for both of us, and put me through. She told me that I could call back when I wanted to abide by Bell's policies and procedures and hung up on me.
Never once, when dealing with any of these people, did I ever raise my voice, be rude, say nasty things to them... not once.... because I know I am going to get better help if I am at least somewhat nice.
By then I was so mad, I went down to the nearest Bell World store..... I spoke to the manager, she faxed it again, to the same number, they wouldn't even give her a different number, and SHE WORKS FOR BELL!!!!! So I called back 48 hours after that, still haven't received any of the faxes. Which I find funny, they received all the faxes that were wrong... but now that I am faxing them what they want (acct number beside transaction!!!!!!!) they don't seem to be getting them. Hmmmmm.
Then I called into regular Customer Service I got that supervisor Scott, went through the whole thing with him, he actually SEEMED to be willing to help. He had a direct fax number (not sure why the Acct. Receivable supervisor didn't have one - he couldn't tell me that either). He put me on hold I faxed it to him, he got the fax, came back to me on the phone and says is this the same thing you have been faxing the whole time and they received it. I said yes. He said well I don't understand why it is not good enough because all they should need is your bill with the bank stamp on it. Where is a wall so I can bang my head off of it?????
So then, I tell him that when this is taken care we're talking about compensation for the EXTREME frustrations, headaches I have been going through for the last 5 months especially the cutting of the phone twice. He tells me that he will call me when it is sorted out. No call, I call his direct line and left 6 voice messages. NOTHING BACK.
So I call Acct. Receivable. THEY HAVE THE FAX, THEY POSTED THE PAYMENT. NO Duh, someonen walked it over to you. And the reason this Scott hasn't returned my calls is because he doesn't want to compensate for anything. Sneakly weasel.... hmmm I think Bell should change its name to that.
But that isn't the end... can you believe that? They have the payment, but instead of posting that they received the payment in February, they posted it that it was received in July. Great, so now, it looks on our bill, that we have had late payments for the last 5 months. Now where do I go about compensation for my time, efforts, frustration?
I hate Bell, they are no good to anyone, and I would love to see someone with enough time on their hands to start a class action civil suit against them. There is not one person that I know that has had a good dealing with Bell, they have screwed with everyone I know.. .this isn't the first time for me either.
Three years ago I aalled about Sympatico, the guy I talked to didn't mention one thing about billing, I assume that a billwould come in the mail... since my ex paid the Bell stuff phone etc, I was not worried about it. I had a chequing account at the Royal Bank that I paid my car payment, student loans and my car insurance, all directly withdrawled monthly. I only put the money into the account that I knew was coming out. Finally my after 6 months my insurance company called about issues on NSF payments. Then the car company called. Bell had been directly taking the monthly fee for the internet out of my chequing account.... an account which I never game them an account number for. Somehow they found out my chequing account number and began withdrawing money. I called, the girl I spoke to said that they would have gotten it from the contract I signed that came with my modem, allowing them to do it....... WHICH SURPRISE, SURPRISE, I NEVER GOT, NOR SIGNED, NOR SENT BACK TO THEM, her response to that, well, we don't actually need it. So, I had to pay 250.00 in NSF fees to the bank, my car company made me start paying my payment through Western Union, I gave Bell another account to take it out of (my ex's). Then they still went through my bank account, I went into my bank and asked them if there was any way to stop this, they told me to give Bell a different account number. I told them I did, my bank told me there was nothing they could do........... Can I cry now???????
In February 2005, my boyfriend paid his BUSINESS cell phone bill for the month of January in the amount of 606.73 at the bank. We kept the bill with the bank's stamp on it. When we received February's bill in March we saw that the amount of 606.73 showed up on the bill. We called Bell, it had already gone into their accounts receivable department. We explained that we paid the bill, and we had the proof in our hands.... Bell informed us that it was not their problem they had supposedly not received the payment and we needed to speak to someone at the bank. We did that, our bank told us they would contact Bell and fax them information. Bill after bill, the 606.73 was still showing up, again talking to the bank they were having problems dealing with Bell, becasue the bank could not understand what they need, they were faxing everything they had (proof that the money was sent to bell mobility, our bill with the stamp on it, they even went as far as sending a record of that particular days money paid out to EVERYONE that they made a payment to). In May our cell phone WAS CUT OFF. We had been making payments minus the 606.73 every month, and there were notes in our Customer File that were faxing items to them. It's not like we told them to screw off, we were trying as hard as we could to get this taken care of....
I began dealing with Bell leaving my boyfriend and the bank out of it. I got the items faxed to me at work from the bank. I faxed them to Bell,(between the bank and myseld this was the 6th fax) on May 30th (which I kept a copy of), stating on the cover sheet for the fax, that these were directly from the bank manager. If this is not satisfactory to CALL ME. I gave them my work number and ext. No one called me, so I think the problem is taken care of, then the phone was shut of again on June 22nd. I called Acct. Receivable again. I spoke to Stephan, again he told me that fax didn't prove to them the payment was made. I was very calm and collected. I didn't speak rudely to him I let him know my frustrations. I told him that on my previous fax, I indicated on it to call me if the information was not satisfactory... his response... well they don't actually read the cover letters of faxes. ??????????? Ridiculous. So I told him that I would fax it again. With some changes (I actually thought I knew what they needed..... after 4 months) On June 23rd faxed it to the Attn of Stephan with his initials? TRM? Whatever, he told me it take 24-48 hours for him to see a fax.... again ridiculous... but whatever.... he told me he would call me on June 28th. No call... surprise, surprise. So I called again, spoke to Daniel, explained the situation again, he told me they never received that fax. And he told me that I probably sent it to the wrong number. After 5 months of dealing with this, do they think I am stupid enough not to check the fax number?????? So I said fine, I'll fax it again, this time I kept the confirmation from my fax machine (8th fax now). I was told to call back July 5th, which I did. Again the person I spoke to me that the fax was not received. So I told him I wanted to talk to his supervisor. I got Kim.... she didn't even let me explain my situation. She kept interjecting into the conversation, until I finally said Do not talk until I am finished. I was a supervisor of a call centre, so I know how they work, believe me, I would have wanted to know all about the stupid crap my CSR's were telling people on the phone. So all she did was tell me to fax it again. I said no I am not faxing this again. I have a confirmation from my fax machine to yours. So you go and find that fax, cause its there. Then she told me that I had to abide by the policies and procedures of bell mobility...... (I must of missed the part where i wasn't), I told her that i wanted another fax number to send it directly to her... she didn't have one. So I said fine, put me through to your supervisor. She told me she didn't have one. So I said listen here, I was a supervisor of a call centre, I know your lingo, I know you have a supervisor sitting there, so just make this easy for both of us, and put me through. She told me that I could call back when I wanted to abide by Bell's policies and procedures and hung up on me.
Never once, when dealing with any of these people, did I ever raise my voice, be rude, say nasty things to them... not once.... because I know I am going to get better help if I am at least somewhat nice.
By then I was so mad, I went down to the nearest Bell World store..... I spoke to the manager, she faxed it again, to the same number, they wouldn't even give her a different number, and SHE WORKS FOR BELL!!!!! So I called back 48 hours after that, still haven't received any of the faxes. Which I find funny, they received all the faxes that were wrong... but now that I am faxing them what they want (acct number beside transaction!!!!!!!) they don't seem to be getting them. Hmmmmm.
Then I called into regular Customer Service I got that supervisor Scott, went through the whole thing with him, he actually SEEMED to be willing to help. He had a direct fax number (not sure why the Acct. Receivable supervisor didn't have one - he couldn't tell me that either). He put me on hold I faxed it to him, he got the fax, came back to me on the phone and says is this the same thing you have been faxing the whole time and they received it. I said yes. He said well I don't understand why it is not good enough because all they should need is your bill with the bank stamp on it. Where is a wall so I can bang my head off of it?????
So then, I tell him that when this is taken care we're talking about compensation for the EXTREME frustrations, headaches I have been going through for the last 5 months especially the cutting of the phone twice. He tells me that he will call me when it is sorted out. No call, I call his direct line and left 6 voice messages. NOTHING BACK.
So I call Acct. Receivable. THEY HAVE THE FAX, THEY POSTED THE PAYMENT. NO Duh, someonen walked it over to you. And the reason this Scott hasn't returned my calls is because he doesn't want to compensate for anything. Sneakly weasel.... hmmm I think Bell should change its name to that.
But that isn't the end... can you believe that? They have the payment, but instead of posting that they received the payment in February, they posted it that it was received in July. Great, so now, it looks on our bill, that we have had late payments for the last 5 months. Now where do I go about compensation for my time, efforts, frustration?
I hate Bell, they are no good to anyone, and I would love to see someone with enough time on their hands to start a class action civil suit against them. There is not one person that I know that has had a good dealing with Bell, they have screwed with everyone I know.. .this isn't the first time for me either.
Three years ago I aalled about Sympatico, the guy I talked to didn't mention one thing about billing, I assume that a billwould come in the mail... since my ex paid the Bell stuff phone etc, I was not worried about it. I had a chequing account at the Royal Bank that I paid my car payment, student loans and my car insurance, all directly withdrawled monthly. I only put the money into the account that I knew was coming out. Finally my after 6 months my insurance company called about issues on NSF payments. Then the car company called. Bell had been directly taking the monthly fee for the internet out of my chequing account.... an account which I never game them an account number for. Somehow they found out my chequing account number and began withdrawing money. I called, the girl I spoke to said that they would have gotten it from the contract I signed that came with my modem, allowing them to do it....... WHICH SURPRISE, SURPRISE, I NEVER GOT, NOR SIGNED, NOR SENT BACK TO THEM, her response to that, well, we don't actually need it. So, I had to pay 250.00 in NSF fees to the bank, my car company made me start paying my payment through Western Union, I gave Bell another account to take it out of (my ex's). Then they still went through my bank account, I went into my bank and asked them if there was any way to stop this, they told me to give Bell a different account number. I told them I did, my bank told me there was nothing they could do........... Can I cry now???????
has a sense of humor.....Ooops.
Newbie
Posts: 11
Location: Burlington, ON
Location: Burlington, ON
August 23rd, 2005, 10:18 AM
We had the same problem with a $3064 payment!
Faxed copies upon copies to Bell, the bank etc - no luck it still shows on our account. Coupled with the terrible reception, the faulty phones and the fact that between the whole business we spend about 4 hours a day calling Bell to complain, We just switched to Telus and told them to sue us if they wanted.
We had the same problem with a $3064 payment!
Faxed copies upon copies to Bell, the bank etc - no luck it still shows on our account. Coupled with the terrible reception, the faulty phones and the fact that between the whole business we spend about 4 hours a day calling Bell to complain, We just switched to Telus and told them to sue us if they wanted.
Newbie
Posts: 2
November 1st, 2005, 12:24 PM
Here is a copy of a letter i send to the VP of Customer Service at Bell Mobility once per week and which I just sent to the BBB today:
Dear Mr. McCuaig,
I am writing to you in hopes that you may provide assistance relating to my account with Bell Mobility. I became a customer in January 2005 with Bell Mobility.
When I received my February invoice, I became aware of fraudulent long distance charges billed to my account. I had inquired into enrolling in your Family Plan, which included 2 more phones linked with my own account.
At the time of inquiry, your customer service representative assigned phone numbers for the cell phones, but did not send the phones to me, as I asked to hold off on them until I spoke to my children and assessed their needs in a plan.
Upon looking into my February invoice, I realized that the long distance charges had been billed to one of the cell phones I had never received.
Since the month of March 2005, I have spoken to no less than 15 Customer Service Representatives with your company regarding this matter.
Initially, it was suggested that I wait for your Fraud Department to investigate and to disregard the invoice until the matter had been rectified by your company.
I was assured that this would in no way reflect badly on my credit and that I should not contact the Calgary Police Service or the Better Business Bureau, as it was obviously fraud perpetuated internally by Bell Mobility. This was pointed out to me numerous times, by your agents.
Due to the fact that the cell phones had never been activated, the numbers had to be accessed within Bell Mobility and the fraudulent calls made by someone with access internally at Bell.
After waiting 14 days for an adjusted invoice and an explanation for this, I called back.
Nothing had been done.
I was not granted the opportunity to speak with someone in the Fraud Department and instead spent many, many frustrating hours on the phone with your Customer Service Representatives, who had no information, no idea how it had happened in the first place and little to no actual customer service skills.
I began calling every 14 days to inquire into what had been adjusted, what had been done, and requesting each and every time to speak to a Manager, the Fraud Department or any second tier support personnel who could rectify this.
Instead, I was repeatedly told that “someone” was looking into the matter and they would call me when they had figured out what had happened with an accurate statement of what I owed Bell.
The only call I ever received was from a Ramona, who spoke to her Team Manager, Jennifer. She stated in the message (which I have saved on my answering machine), that following the adjustments made, my outstanding balance was “around” $60.00.
I believe she was located in Vancouver, as she began leaving a Vancouver number to call her back, and then switched it to your toll free number.
Shortly after that, I received yet another invoice and it most certainly was not for “around” $60.00.
I have now dealt with this matter for 7 months, with calls to Customer Service every 14 days.
The last one I spoke to informed me that there was no way I could receive a detailed account of my invoice. He didn’t have TIME to explain how I could owe $588.00 on a cell phone that has been out of service for most of the last 7 months.
I requested an explanation of how I could owe $588.00 for a phone that was functional for approximately 10 days in June, before they turned it back off for non-payment.
This miscommunication between your Departments is something else I would appreciate your looking into for me, as my situation is a classic example of how one department cannot seem to work with another department in order to satisfy customer concerns and complaints.
In closing, I will clarify what I expect to receive from Bell Mobility before you will receive any payment from me:
I request a detailed summary of the alleged charges I owe for a non-functioning cell-phone.
I request to speak to an upper-level staff member or yourself about this situation.
I request a reply to this letter within 5 business days before I seek legal counsel, contact the Calgary Police Service Fraud Unit, and The Better Business Bureau of Canada.
I demand that this matter be rectified before my credit is further damaged by the abysmal service I have received thus far by Bell Mobility Canada.
The fraud on my account was perpetuated INTERNALLY, a fact which was stated to me numerous times by your employees.
As you can imagine, this situation has now exhausted my patience and I am not willing to spend any more of my valuable time dealing with employees who can or will not provide me with the explanations and closure I demand.
UPDATE: I just received a new bill from Bell Mobility for $915.83...termination fees added to the bill.
This is turning into a Twilight Zone episode!!
Here is a copy of a letter i send to the VP of Customer Service at Bell Mobility once per week and which I just sent to the BBB today:
Dear Mr. McCuaig,
I am writing to you in hopes that you may provide assistance relating to my account with Bell Mobility. I became a customer in January 2005 with Bell Mobility.
When I received my February invoice, I became aware of fraudulent long distance charges billed to my account. I had inquired into enrolling in your Family Plan, which included 2 more phones linked with my own account.
At the time of inquiry, your customer service representative assigned phone numbers for the cell phones, but did not send the phones to me, as I asked to hold off on them until I spoke to my children and assessed their needs in a plan.
Upon looking into my February invoice, I realized that the long distance charges had been billed to one of the cell phones I had never received.
Since the month of March 2005, I have spoken to no less than 15 Customer Service Representatives with your company regarding this matter.
Initially, it was suggested that I wait for your Fraud Department to investigate and to disregard the invoice until the matter had been rectified by your company.
I was assured that this would in no way reflect badly on my credit and that I should not contact the Calgary Police Service or the Better Business Bureau, as it was obviously fraud perpetuated internally by Bell Mobility. This was pointed out to me numerous times, by your agents.
Due to the fact that the cell phones had never been activated, the numbers had to be accessed within Bell Mobility and the fraudulent calls made by someone with access internally at Bell.
After waiting 14 days for an adjusted invoice and an explanation for this, I called back.
Nothing had been done.
I was not granted the opportunity to speak with someone in the Fraud Department and instead spent many, many frustrating hours on the phone with your Customer Service Representatives, who had no information, no idea how it had happened in the first place and little to no actual customer service skills.
I began calling every 14 days to inquire into what had been adjusted, what had been done, and requesting each and every time to speak to a Manager, the Fraud Department or any second tier support personnel who could rectify this.
Instead, I was repeatedly told that “someone” was looking into the matter and they would call me when they had figured out what had happened with an accurate statement of what I owed Bell.
The only call I ever received was from a Ramona, who spoke to her Team Manager, Jennifer. She stated in the message (which I have saved on my answering machine), that following the adjustments made, my outstanding balance was “around” $60.00.
I believe she was located in Vancouver, as she began leaving a Vancouver number to call her back, and then switched it to your toll free number.
Shortly after that, I received yet another invoice and it most certainly was not for “around” $60.00.
I have now dealt with this matter for 7 months, with calls to Customer Service every 14 days.
The last one I spoke to informed me that there was no way I could receive a detailed account of my invoice. He didn’t have TIME to explain how I could owe $588.00 on a cell phone that has been out of service for most of the last 7 months.
I requested an explanation of how I could owe $588.00 for a phone that was functional for approximately 10 days in June, before they turned it back off for non-payment.
This miscommunication between your Departments is something else I would appreciate your looking into for me, as my situation is a classic example of how one department cannot seem to work with another department in order to satisfy customer concerns and complaints.
In closing, I will clarify what I expect to receive from Bell Mobility before you will receive any payment from me:
I request a detailed summary of the alleged charges I owe for a non-functioning cell-phone.
I request to speak to an upper-level staff member or yourself about this situation.
I request a reply to this letter within 5 business days before I seek legal counsel, contact the Calgary Police Service Fraud Unit, and The Better Business Bureau of Canada.
I demand that this matter be rectified before my credit is further damaged by the abysmal service I have received thus far by Bell Mobility Canada.
The fraud on my account was perpetuated INTERNALLY, a fact which was stated to me numerous times by your employees.
As you can imagine, this situation has now exhausted my patience and I am not willing to spend any more of my valuable time dealing with employees who can or will not provide me with the explanations and closure I demand.
UPDATE: I just received a new bill from Bell Mobility for $915.83...termination fees added to the bill.
This is turning into a Twilight Zone episode!!
Bright Spark
Posts: 334
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
November 2nd, 2005, 07:34 AM
there is a toronto star reporter that helps ppl out with these situations, heres a recent article on how she got an individual out fo a contract here
erosema@thestar.ca
btw this si all publicly available and thats why i am posting it. iof i am infringing on any forum rules then i apologize and will take this post down immediatley
there is a toronto star reporter that helps ppl out with these situations, heres a recent article on how she got an individual out fo a contract here
erosema@thestar.ca
btw this si all publicly available and thats why i am posting it. iof i am infringing on any forum rules then i apologize and will take this post down immediatley
Bright Spark
Posts: 289
Location: Montreal
Location: Montreal
November 2nd, 2005, 02:12 PM
Again, Thank You all for giving your experience for providers, regardless they are positive or negative.
kalok~
Quoting
Don't worry.. I don't see any problem yet.
btw this si all publicly available and thats why i am posting it. iof i am infringing on any forum rules then i apologize and will take this post down immediatley
Again, Thank You all for giving your experience for providers, regardless they are positive or negative.
kalok~
Newbie
Posts: 5
November 4th, 2005, 08:38 PM
I feel your pain. My pain with Rogers is no where nearly as long as your struggle with Bell but I certainly understand your frustrations. Those customer representatives are pretty much useless. Not to say they are incompetent...I have a feeling they are just told to ignore the complaints when customers call in. I specifically ASKED every customer representative to pass me off to the "complaint" department and they immediately said, "Oh maybe this other department can help you better than I can." And as soon as they transferred me, the new person would tell me I'm at the wrong department and that they'll transfer me back to the same department that transfered me there in the first place. *sigh* It's horrible...
Anyway, until someone puts to gether a lawsuit against Bell, you might as well just report them to the BBB. If this ever goes to court, every complaint from the BBB will make an impression in court.
Good luck!!
I feel your pain. My pain with Rogers is no where nearly as long as your struggle with Bell but I certainly understand your frustrations. Those customer representatives are pretty much useless. Not to say they are incompetent...I have a feeling they are just told to ignore the complaints when customers call in. I specifically ASKED every customer representative to pass me off to the "complaint" department and they immediately said, "Oh maybe this other department can help you better than I can." And as soon as they transferred me, the new person would tell me I'm at the wrong department and that they'll transfer me back to the same department that transfered me there in the first place. *sigh* It's horrible...
Anyway, until someone puts to gether a lawsuit against Bell, you might as well just report them to the BBB. If this ever goes to court, every complaint from the BBB will make an impression in court.
Good luck!!
Newbie
Posts: 1
Location: Missisauga
Location: Missisauga
December 20th, 2005, 01:03 PM
i suggest you calling Customer service again, and explain in very few little words that your having this type of problem and you faxed over 10 times to 2 different department, and make sure you stil lhave the paper and ask for Manager and talk to them and make sure its taken care by the way ask for Empolyee number beside that ask for direct number for manager that way you could call and do followup in 24 to 48 hrs and ask for his/her time he's working that way you could get him and not his answering mechine and if he wanted to transf you back to Account recivable make sure he's on the 3way calling with you and tell him to stay and taht way its fixed for you .....
*** good luck *** and post what happens ok
i suggest you calling Customer service again, and explain in very few little words that your having this type of problem and you faxed over 10 times to 2 different department, and make sure you stil lhave the paper and ask for Manager and talk to them and make sure its taken care by the way ask for Empolyee number beside that ask for direct number for manager that way you could call and do followup in 24 to 48 hrs and ask for his/her time he's working that way you could get him and not his answering mechine and if he wanted to transf you back to Account recivable make sure he's on the 3way calling with you and tell him to stay and taht way its fixed for you .....
*** good luck *** and post what happens ok
