| View Poll Results: Should Quebec separate, what course should the Maritime provinces and NFLD & Lab follow? | |||
| Remain a part of Canada, geographically separate from the rest of the country. |    | 36 | 67.92% |
| Apply for statehood in the United States. |    | 7 | 13.21% |
| Form own independent and sovereign nation(s), either individually or collectively. |    | 10 | 18.87% |
| Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll | |||
Super Genius
Posts: 1,065 
Location: Montréal, Québec
Location: Montréal, Québec
April 27th, 2005, 09:46 PM
Quoting
That dam, provides us with only a minuscule amount of our power.
Just one little argument here: Newfoundland and Labrador are one and the same entity and they own the Power Generating Systems that gave you the cheap power that you resell to New England. The latest premier of Newfoundland is a far harder bargainer than the sap who made the first electricity deal with Quebec. Good Luck on having any Nfld Power in the near future.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,065
Location: Montréal, Québec
Location: Montréal, Québec
April 27th, 2005, 09:51 PM
Quoting
They are also quite clear on the self-determination of aboriginal peoples, who are likely to want to remain within Canada because that's who they've signed treaties with. those aboriginal peoples have valid claims to much of the territory where your energy comes from, btw.
Thats a technicality. Once a referendum is passed, negociations would start with does Nations. Right now, it would be illegal for Québec to negotiate anything without Federal Approval. The PQ and BQ, have made it clear many times that we shall do things within the confines of the Canadian Constitution and Internationnal laws.
They are also quite clear on the self-determination of aboriginal peoples, who are likely to want to remain within Canada because that's who they've signed treaties with. those aboriginal peoples have valid claims to much of the territory where your energy comes from, btw.
Genius
Posts: 859
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Location: Whitby, Ontario
April 28th, 2005, 07:03 AM
Polls indicate that the separation option's popularity has varied greatly in the past 10 years. It seems to follow an emotive response to issues in Ottawa. When things like this scandal come up, the support increases, but when things are normal, the option is not as popular.
It seems that the vote for separation can only be successful if the referendum is on the cusp of some scandal in Ottawa. Even then the support is not overwhelming, like now where amidst Gomrey the support is only 54% and then only 40% would vote for true independence.
I don't consider Sovereignty association separation; it is simply a restructured decentralized version of Canada that other provinces want anyhow.
Quoting
Am I the only one realizing that our world in general has changed A LOT since 1995?
Really? I thought the whole problem was there hadn't been any changes.Quote:
40-50-...
According to the 1980 referendum and 1995 referendum, it isn't the majority in Quebec either.
Am I the only one realizing that our world in general has changed A LOT since 1995?
Polls indicate that the separation option's popularity has varied greatly in the past 10 years. It seems to follow an emotive response to issues in Ottawa. When things like this scandal come up, the support increases, but when things are normal, the option is not as popular.
It seems that the vote for separation can only be successful if the referendum is on the cusp of some scandal in Ottawa. Even then the support is not overwhelming, like now where amidst Gomrey the support is only 54% and then only 40% would vote for true independence.
I don't consider Sovereignty association separation; it is simply a restructured decentralized version of Canada that other provinces want anyhow.
Newbie
Posts: 39
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 28th, 2005, 07:39 AM
I'd still prefer Quebec say though. I hate family break ups.
Quoting
At the last referendum the northern aboriginal's said if Quebec separated then they would remain in Canada. Can Quebec refuse to allow to remain in Canada? After all if separation is ok for Quebec, then it should be ok for First Nations.
They are also quite clear on the self-determination of aboriginal peoples, who are likely to want to remain within Canada because that's who they've signed treaties with. those aboriginal peoples have valid claims to much of the territory where your energy comes from, btw.
I'd still prefer Quebec say though. I hate family break ups.
Knows Too Much
Posts: 2,488
Location: PEI...for now
Location: PEI...for now
April 28th, 2005, 06:53 PM
How would these people move? Will anyone be paying their way? Remember wages/jobs suck here so move-money is not very realistic.
I hope it never does come to separation though. If it does, Canada could form something akin to the EU with a bunch of closley allied states/countries shareing certian qualities but remaining distinct.
Perhaps by then, I shall be living in the Republic of Green Gables.
Quote:
The Maritimes should consider joining the new country of Quebec. There is enough French people there. Those in the Maritimes, who don't like Quebec, can find all sorts of places in NA to move too.
How would these people move? Will anyone be paying their way? Remember wages/jobs suck here so move-money is not very realistic.I hope it never does come to separation though. If it does, Canada could form something akin to the EU with a bunch of closley allied states/countries shareing certian qualities but remaining distinct.
Perhaps by then, I shall be living in the Republic of Green Gables.
Member
Posts: 89
Location: Montreal
Location: Montreal
April 28th, 2005, 08:27 PM
DasFX:
For your info, Halifax (Sherwater) is one of the largest military air base in Canada. Halifax harbour is also the home port of most of the "Canadian war ships" on the east coast.
As far as energy reserves are concerned, NS and NFLD have the largest energy reserves (oil) outside Alberta.
So don't discount the Atlantic/maritime region. They represent a lot for Canada.
DasFX:
Quote:
So are the Maritime/Atlantic provinces for Canada.
Alaska is very valuable to America, both in defense and energy reserves
For your info, Halifax (Sherwater) is one of the largest military air base in Canada. Halifax harbour is also the home port of most of the "Canadian war ships" on the east coast.
As far as energy reserves are concerned, NS and NFLD have the largest energy reserves (oil) outside Alberta.
So don't discount the Atlantic/maritime region. They represent a lot for Canada.
Genius
Posts: 859
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Location: Whitby, Ontario
April 29th, 2005, 11:37 AM
In terms of oil, it is a non-renewable resources and the Grand Banks doesn't have that much anyhow. First fish, now oil, what will Atlantic Canada rely on next?
Quoting
I never said the Maritimes weren't valuable. In terms of military, I know what CFB Sherwater is one of the largest air bases. However, with Quebec gone and the focus of Canada would shift towards the Pacific. I think Canada would manage without a Atlantic port. We'd still have two oceans. Besides militarily the rest of Canada would have Quebec as a buffer should a military threat reach the East Coast.
DasFX:
For your info, Halifax (Sherwater) is one of the largest military air base in Canada. Halifax harbour is also the home port of most of the "Canadian war ships" on the east coast.
As far as energy reserves are concerned, NS and NFLD have the largest energy reserves (oil) outside Alberta.
So don't discount the Atlantic/maritime region. They represent a lot for Canada.
Quote:
So are the Maritime/Atlantic provinces for Canada.
Alaska is very valuable to America, both in defense and energy reserves
For your info, Halifax (Sherwater) is one of the largest military air base in Canada. Halifax harbour is also the home port of most of the "Canadian war ships" on the east coast.
As far as energy reserves are concerned, NS and NFLD have the largest energy reserves (oil) outside Alberta.
So don't discount the Atlantic/maritime region. They represent a lot for Canada.
In terms of oil, it is a non-renewable resources and the Grand Banks doesn't have that much anyhow. First fish, now oil, what will Atlantic Canada rely on next?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
April 29th, 2005, 11:50 AM
I wonder if the separation of Quebec, whether the Atlantic provinces remained within Canada or not, would increase traffic in St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes. My understanding is (and I know SFA about those big ocean-going boats) that would require some major upgrades to the seaway.
I wonder if the separation of Quebec, whether the Atlantic provinces remained within Canada or not, would increase traffic in St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes. My understanding is (and I know SFA about those big ocean-going boats) that would require some major upgrades to the seaway.
Member
Posts: 89
Location: Montreal
Location: Montreal
April 29th, 2005, 01:37 PM
RevBlair:
I don't see how or why traffic in St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes would be influenced by Quebec separation. VLCS (very large cargo ships) can not go through the seaway because of their size. The port of Montreal (the No.1 Canadian container port) is used as a transhipment point where containers and merchandises are unloaded and re-loaded on smaller ships (Lakers)
Half of the traffic through the seaway is for the benefits and done by Americans as a link to the great lakes.
Most of central Canada and central U.S. depend on the seaway for their imports/exports as it is far cheaper than using trucks or rail.
RevBlair:
I don't see how or why traffic in St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes would be influenced by Quebec separation. VLCS (very large cargo ships) can not go through the seaway because of their size. The port of Montreal (the No.1 Canadian container port) is used as a transhipment point where containers and merchandises are unloaded and re-loaded on smaller ships (Lakers)
Half of the traffic through the seaway is for the benefits and done by Americans as a link to the great lakes.
Most of central Canada and central U.S. depend on the seaway for their imports/exports as it is far cheaper than using trucks or rail.
Member
Posts: 185
Location: the wang
Location: the wang
April 30th, 2005, 06:44 PM
I still don't get why Canada is just going to say, 'oh you want to leave, well...' and there goes a huge portion of the country. what the heck?? I'd like for them to remain part of Canada, but whatever happens- I truly hope the Maritimes and all the rest of Atlantic Canada don't go to Quebec.
I still don't get why Canada is just going to say, 'oh you want to leave, well...' and there goes a huge portion of the country. what the heck?? I'd like for them to remain part of Canada, but whatever happens- I truly hope the Maritimes and all the rest of Atlantic Canada don't go to Quebec.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
April 30th, 2005, 07:01 PM
Would that traffic just switch to Halifax though? Would that cause shippers to use the seaway more, since boats were going that way anyway?
Quote:
That's part of the reason I said that I didn't know much about really big boats.
RevBlair:
I don't see how or why traffic in St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes would be influenced by Quebec separation. VLCS (very large cargo ships) can not go through the seaway because of their size. The port of Montreal (the No.1 Canadian container port) is used as a transhipment point where containers and merchandises are unloaded and re-loaded on smaller ships (Lakers)
Half of the traffic through the seaway is for the benefits and done by Americans as a link to the great lakes.
Most of central Canada and central U.S. depend on the seaway for their imports/exports as it is far cheaper than using trucks or rail.
I don't see how or why traffic in St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes would be influenced by Quebec separation. VLCS (very large cargo ships) can not go through the seaway because of their size. The port of Montreal (the No.1 Canadian container port) is used as a transhipment point where containers and merchandises are unloaded and re-loaded on smaller ships (Lakers)
Half of the traffic through the seaway is for the benefits and done by Americans as a link to the great lakes.
Most of central Canada and central U.S. depend on the seaway for their imports/exports as it is far cheaper than using trucks or rail.
Would that traffic just switch to Halifax though? Would that cause shippers to use the seaway more, since boats were going that way anyway?
Quote:
What else can we do, chain 'em to the stove? If they want to go they will go. It isn't worth shooting people over...it isn't like they can go far.
I still don't get why Canada is just going to say, 'oh you want to leave, well...' and there goes a huge portion of the country. what the heck?
Knows Too Much
Posts: 2,488
Location: PEI...for now
Location: PEI...for now
May 19th, 2005, 09:28 AM
Anyone smell a little Manifest Destiny here?
So we should call all of the countries in Africa, Africa. What about LA, it's not part of the North american continent it's part of the Pacific continental shelf, perhaps it could join the countries that share that plate eh? If YOUR country resides on a continent that happens to share the same name as where you life why should everybody join you? What about Central America and South America? They are also considered part of the Americas you'd solve your immigration problem quickly if you made them join you.
1000 years from now who's to say another country would have it's turn. I'm sure people said the exact same thing you did when Rome existed, Egypt, then the Ottoman empire, the British Empire, The Chineese Empire, and perhaps even the Myans, right now you've just had your turn. The all mighty powerful thing is no better than the perverbial chest-thumping a territorial simian would do.
Anyone smell a little Manifest Destiny here?Quote:
REMEMBER THAT WHAT WE CALL AMERICA IS ACCTUALLY "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" AND AMERICA HERE REFERS TO THE CONTINENT AND NOT THE COUNRTY.
So we should call all of the countries in Africa, Africa. What about LA, it's not part of the North american continent it's part of the Pacific continental shelf, perhaps it could join the countries that share that plate eh? If YOUR country resides on a continent that happens to share the same name as where you life why should everybody join you? What about Central America and South America? They are also considered part of the Americas you'd solve your immigration problem quickly if you made them join you. Quote:
THEY WILL ENJOY BEING IN A UNION WITH THE MOST POWERFUL NATION EVER TO BE KNOWN. [FROM A U.S. CITIZEN IN NEW YORK]
1000 years from now who's to say another country would have it's turn. I'm sure people said the exact same thing you did when Rome existed, Egypt, then the Ottoman empire, the British Empire, The Chineese Empire, and perhaps even the Myans, right now you've just had your turn. The all mighty powerful thing is no better than the perverbial chest-thumping a territorial simian would do.
Newbie
Posts: 3
May 21st, 2005, 03:59 PM
you canadians are still consumed with nationalism. there is no nationalism in america, just economy. canada didn't become like usa not becuase canadians are less smart. it is simply out of your hands. usa has 300 milion people, diverse, 50 states, has alsmost all climates on earth, hundreds of rivers, tons of minerals, oil and location. people move to where they can become better and that's what attracted millions of emigrants to america and that's what made it better. and i also didn't say that america will be like this forever, nobody did.
what i am saying is that canada and usa are the best friends on earth, we have a lot in common. we speak the same language and we live the same. and we are both originally english. if the "rebuplic of canada" will be formed, it is better for you and us to be one big country with 75 states. imagine a country with almost 350 milion stretching from the north pole to the mexican gulf. we will be a huge comtinental country where all can enjoy freedom, stability, and wealth. if canada became a part of usa, canadians and americans will scramble and in 50 years no one will say i came from canada or i came from america. one day a canadian will be the president of the united states. we all going to be from north america.
i really enjoy talking to you body, keep it going.
you canadians are still consumed with nationalism. there is no nationalism in america, just economy. canada didn't become like usa not becuase canadians are less smart. it is simply out of your hands. usa has 300 milion people, diverse, 50 states, has alsmost all climates on earth, hundreds of rivers, tons of minerals, oil and location. people move to where they can become better and that's what attracted millions of emigrants to america and that's what made it better. and i also didn't say that america will be like this forever, nobody did.
what i am saying is that canada and usa are the best friends on earth, we have a lot in common. we speak the same language and we live the same. and we are both originally english. if the "rebuplic of canada" will be formed, it is better for you and us to be one big country with 75 states. imagine a country with almost 350 milion stretching from the north pole to the mexican gulf. we will be a huge comtinental country where all can enjoy freedom, stability, and wealth. if canada became a part of usa, canadians and americans will scramble and in 50 years no one will say i came from canada or i came from america. one day a canadian will be the president of the united states. we all going to be from north america.
i really enjoy talking to you body, keep it going.
Newbie
Posts: 3
May 21st, 2005, 04:04 PM
correction:
when i meant "originally english", i didn't mean from english descent, i meant english system.
america is 25% germans, 25% british, 16% irish, 13% blacks, 6% hispanic, and the rest from italy, france, russia, asians, middle easterns, native indians, east indians.
Your post was deleted and posted in the moderator fourm for the administator to view. Goading is not acceptable, find another way to express your opinions.
correction:
when i meant "originally english", i didn't mean from english descent, i meant english system.
america is 25% germans, 25% british, 16% irish, 13% blacks, 6% hispanic, and the rest from italy, france, russia, asians, middle easterns, native indians, east indians.
Your post was deleted and posted in the moderator fourm for the administator to view. Goading is not acceptable, find another way to express your opinions.
