Egypt on the Verge of Collapse?

earth_as_one

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Ironically ironsides made this comment about Iran today:

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides
Iran is on the verge of destroying itself, to many Iranians are fed up with this all controlling government.
I responded with this comment about Egypt:

...how about Egypt ? Its a military dictatorship where popular opposition parties are banned. If it wasn't for the billions the US gives in bribe money (keep peace with Israel) and arms to support the dictator, Egyptians would have gotten rid of Mubarak years ago....

...I bet... the Egyptians are watching the events unfold in Tunisia very closely.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...farting-around-iran-nukes-37.html#post1373983

I just checked the news and one of the big stories today are the anti-government riots in Egypt.

A dam breaking in Egypt

By Kristen Chick, Correspondent / January 25, 2011
Cairo

Today Egypt experienced the largest outpouring of public fury at the government since January 1977, when cuts in government food subsidies saw hundreds of thousands of Egyptians pour into the streets in an uprising that shook the government of then President Anwar Sadat.

That ended three days later with dozens dead but the Egyptian poor who spearheaded the action triumphant: Sadat restored the subsidies.

The protests in Egypt today, with tens of thousands on the streets of Cairo, Alexandria, industrial Nile Delta towns like Mahalla El-Kubra and Tanta, and the port city of Suez, were thankfully nowhere near as violent (though late in the evening in Cairo on Tuesday there were reports of security forces taking a tougher line with protesters camped out in Tahrir Square)...
A dam breaking in Egypt - CSMonitor.com
 

Goober

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Ironically ironsides made this comment about Iran today:

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides
Iran is on the verge of destroying itself, to many Iranians are fed up with this all controlling government.

I responded with this comment about Egypt:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...farting-around-iran-nukes-37.html#post1373983

I just checked the news and one of the big stories today are the anti-government riots in Egypt.

A dam breaking in Egypt - CSMonitor.com

Iran is closer, much closer than Egypt - Problem is when it does happen the Revolutionary Guard and other para military groups controlled by Imanutjob will murder 10's of thousands - Compare that to when the Shah fell - After the other Nut job came to power he also went on a massive purge
 

gopher

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Egypt is democratic in name only. While the country is far from being a paradise, Iran's government has majority support, contrary to anti-Tehran news media reports. Big difference.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Israel will have to make the move any time now. They have to, uncle shams grip is slipping in the ME. Into Lebanon and down the tubes. The same internal strife will rock Israel soon enough.
 

Trotz

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Israel will have to make the move any time now. They have to, uncle shams grip is slipping in the ME. Into Lebanon and down the tubes. The same internal strife will rock Israel soon enough.

They would had kept the Sinai Peninsula had the Soviet Union not threatened to intervene.
I believe there was a back room deal which prevented this annexation and it led to Egypt becoming an informal satellite of the United States.

Considering Egypt has a secular dictator and a small liberal middle class (even then the middle class can be Islamic too) and it seems quite obvious that the Islamics will gain control.

I believe your right that Israel needs to act soon if it wants a defensive location on the Egyptian border (Sinai and the straight sounds good to me).
 
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earth_as_one

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An update regarding yesterday's protests:

Size: About 20,000 demonstrators, mostly young people. Enough to overwhelm government security forces.
Dead: 4 (3 protesters and 1 police officer)
Complaints: poverty, unemployment, corruption and repression
Demands: Mubarak dissolve government and hand power to a caretaker government until democratic elections.
Government Response: protesters and strikers will be detained

Root cause: Egypt's population of 80 million is growing by 2 percent a year. About 60 percent of the population -- and 90 percent of the unemployed -- are under 30 years old. About 40 percent live on less than $2 a day, and a third are illiterate. Egypt's State of Emergency is in its 30th year and was recently extended for another 2 years.

Twitter, the Internet messaging service that has been one of the main methods used by demonstrators to organize, was blocked yesterday.

Protesters have invited the police, military and government security forces to help free Egypt from authoritarian rule by joining them or going on strike.

If yesterday was a one time event and Mubarak's government stands, hunting down the instigators will be a top priority.

If protests continue today, grow in size, and involve Egypt's opposition, but not security forces, then this will get ugly. I expect that Mubarak will authorize deadly force. He's maintained his grip on power through fear and intimidation. Mubarak gets billions in US aid each year, including arms and the tools required to maintain his grip on power.

If police, military and other security forces go on strike or join the protests, then the government will fall and Mubarak will be forced to flee the country. BTW, his wife, son and family left Egypt for London yesterday.

Amnesty International 2010 Report
Egypt


The government continued to use state of emergency
powers to detain peaceful critics and opponents as
well as people suspected of security offences or
involvement in terrorism. Some were held under
administrative detention orders; others were
sentenced to prison terms after unfair trials before
military courts. Torture and other ill-treatment
remained widespread in police cells, security police
detention centres and prisons, and in most cases
were committed with impunity. The rights to freedom
of expression, association and assembly were
curtailed; journalists and bloggers were among those
detained or prosecuted. Hundreds of families
residing in Cairo’s “unsafe areas” were forcibly
evicted; some were left homeless, others were
relocated but without security of tenure. Men
perceived to be gay continued to be prosecuted
under a “debauchery” law. At least 19 people
seeking to cross into Israel were shot dead by border
guards, apparently while posing no threat. At least
269 people were sentenced to death, and at least
five were executed.
http://thereport.amnesty.org/sites/default/files/AIR2010_AZ_EN.pdf#page=77

The word out of Egypt is that protests will continue on Friday

So don't expect much to happen until then.
A crackdown in Egypt, and Tunisia too - CSMonitor.com
 
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Retired_Can_Soldier

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Egypt is democratic in name only. While the country is far from being a paradise, Iran's government has majority support, contrary to anti-Tehran news media reports. Big difference.

Really? So that whole post-election revolt a few years ago in Iran was orchestrated by what? Western Media?
 

petros

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Really? So that whole post-election revolt a few years ago in Iran was orchestrated by what? Western Media?
Everytime there is a G8/G20 or WTO meeting in North America there are riots. Apparently we don't like being lead on leashes either. Did Iran go as ar Canada did and build a Riotorium and then arrest, beat and gas whoever they felt like arresting beating and gassing?

YouTube - G20 Protests Heat Up: Video of police car fire in Toronto

How do Democratic riots differ from other?
 

earth_as_one

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The 2009 Iran post election riots weren't as big as our media portrayed them. The protesters numbered in the thousands. About the same size as the recent riots in Egypt. Understandably, many people were upset the hardliners were able to maintain power.

The Iranian police used lethal force during the 2009 post election riots, ( 2009?2010 Iranian election protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) unlike the 2010 G-20 protests in Toronto. Some members of the Canadian police disgraced their uniform by acting like thugs, but the overwhelming majority acted professionally. Its true that the police overstepped their powers to search and detain, but they were incorrectly informed by someone that they had these powers when in fact they did not. Whoever misinformed the police should be held accountable for causing rank and file members of the police to break the law. Also, as the police so often like to say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law".

The US and other western nations have budgeted hundreds of millions of dollars to destabilize Iran, including fomenting dissent and funding/arming anti-Iran terrorist organizations.
2009?2010 Iranian election protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Goober

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The 2009 Iran post election riots weren't as big as our media portrayed them. The protesters numbered in the thousands. About the same size as the recent riots in Egypt. Understandably, many people were upset the hardliners were able to maintain power.

The Iranian police used lethal force during the 2009 post election riots, ( 2009?2010 Iranian election protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) unlike the 2010 G-20 protests in Toronto. Some members of the Canadian police disgraced their uniform by acting like thugs, but the overwhelming majority acted professionally. Its true that the police overstepped their powers to search and detain, but they were incorrectly informed by someone that they had these powers when in fact they did not. Whoever misinformed the police should be held accountable for causing rank and file members of the police to break the law. Also, as the police so often like to say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law".

The US and other western nations have budgeted hundreds of millions of dollars to destabilize Iran, including fomenting dissent and funding/arming anti-Iran terrorist organizations.
2009?2010 Iranian election protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many people demonstarted then - Clearly you have the numbers -

Wiki is not, I say again, not a credable source of information.

YouTube - Riot police caught by crowd - Protests in Tehran after election


Iran hangs two for involvement in vote unrest: report | Reuters

And of course as Imanutjobs stated,
1 - Few demonstrators -

2- All were US agents and best yet,

3- No Homosexuals in Iran -

Which of the 3 are true????
 

darkbeaver

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How many people demonstarted then - Clearly you have the numbers -

Wiki is not, I say again, not a credable source of information.


And of course as Imanutjobs stated,
1 - Few demonstrators -

2- All were US agents and best yet,

3- No Homosexuals in Iran -

Which of the 3 are true????


Tell us about the female protester murdered in the street for the western medias blood theatre.
 

earth_as_one

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I never cared for Ahmadinejad, and his statement about homosexuals not being a phenomenon in Iran shows the guy is delusional at least on that issue. In that respect, he's about as accurate as George Bush and Tony Blair regarding Iraq's WMD stockpiles.

I can't find an unbiased source regarding numbers of people involved in the 2009 post Iran election riots. If I was to guess based on several sources, I'd say tens of thousands (20,000 to 80,000) participated in the protests and about 100,000 turned out for the opposition rally, which wasn't really a protest as a day of mourning.

I noticed in your video, that the police who were initially riding motorcycles and using truncheons on the crowd were then overwhelmed by the crowd, beaten and had their motorcycles set on fire. Eventually they were rescued by some of the protesters.

If you check out this video of yesterday's riots in Egypt you will again see police beating people with truncheons, the police being overwhelmed by the crowd, police getting beaten and police being rescued by protesters. The size of the riots on your video and this one look about the same:
YouTube - Egypt's Protests Day of Anger Riots 25 Jan 2011 Demonstrations Rare Raw Footage.flv

Even though the protests are about the same size and have the same motivation, the Egyptian protests haven't gotten the same level of media coverage and our leaders aren't saying the same things. You'd think that our leaders would be more supportive of the efforts to turn Egypt into a democracy. The difference is the Egyptian dictator Mubarak serves a useful purpose to the US and Israel, while the Iranian theocracy is an obstacle to US and Israeli hegemony in the region.

Lets put it this way. When the democratic aspirations of Egyptians conflict with US foreign policy objectives which require Egypt to be ruled by an unpopular dictator, our leaders and news media will ultimately side with the unpopular dictator against the Egyptian people. That's a prediction, not an observation yet.

In both cases I am consistent. I support the democratic aspiration of both Iranians and Egyptians to have free and fair elections.

How about you Goob? Do you hope the protests in Egypt lead to Egypt becoming a real democracy?
 
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damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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The Middle East is an ongoing powder keg and has been for over a century. The reason is the old
colonial power syndrome still exists. The West and parts of Asia see the region as merely a place
to get oil and invest nothing else into the societies that continue to struggle. Lack of education and
job opportunities leads to frustration, anger and jealousy. In addition people without education are
easily manipulated by outside forces, religious radicals and their own corrupt power base.
The future of Egypt, and indeed Iran lies in the ability for the people to determine their own destiny.
Egypt is a long way from a major shakeup, but they are due for some kind of change and it is coming.
preferably by peaceful means but that is not likely.
Iran on the other hand does not have the luxury of time, over half the population is made up of youth,
and they have had enough of the Islamic State as it were. When the people rise up and conquer their
own brand of oppression the world will be a better place. We in the west have always played a role in
trying to shape the Middle East into our own image and likeness and that venture has to cease. We
should sit back and let the future play itself out, if we do that without interference we will not have the
same old backlash we get now. Civil Wars are not entered into lightly and they do not yield positive
results when others interfere regardless of whether they are well intentioned or not. Bloodshed is a
natural part of history, and we cannot prevent it even if we try, all we do is postpone the inevitable
which often presents worse results down the road.
Iran will take a few years yet, so will Egypt, but some of the others will blow up much sooner. I think
we should pay attention to Lebanon. Yemen and some of the other states with dwindling resource
supply. Syria will not be a problem in the near future but the surrounding nations want jobs, a stable
middle class opportunities for education and freedom to determine their own course. The biggest
impediment is of course, they are rich in history, with little in the way of social and institutional
Infrastructure. As for the prospects of something good coming out of these violent demonstrations,
it is like Mussolini once said. "Reason is not the prime motivation of an angry mob"
 

earth_as_one

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Hillary says America supports democracy in Egypt and will not tolerate police brutality, now.
That's an empty threat. While the US might make public statements in support of Egyptian democracy, in private, the US will continue to support this brutal dictator and the status quo regardless of what atrocities he might commit. The US's sole concern regarding Egypt is their peace treaty with Israel.

BTW, Egypt had another day of riots, even though many of the instigators are calling for a massive protest on Friday.

The protesters want the government to end its 30-year state of emergency and pass a law preventing a president from serving more than two terms, and want the interior minister, Mr Habib al-Adly, to resign. Over 30,000 people gathered in Cairo’s Maidan al-Tahrir square to protest, said the spokesman for the opposition movement, Mr Mohammed Adel. “Police used water cannons and teargas to break up our protests and arrested 40 of us, but we don’t have official figures on the numbers of arrests across Egypt,” said Mr Adel.
More than 200,000 people took part in the protests.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/international/mubarak%E2%80%99s-son-family-flee-uk-amid-unrest-901

Unlikely.... But the protests do appear to be gaining in strength.
 
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darkbeaver

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. The biggest
impediment is of course, they are rich in history, with little in the way of social and institutional
Infrastructure. As for the prospects of something good coming out of these violent demonstrations,
it is like Mussolini once said. "Reason is not the prime motivation of an angry mob"

What a sloppy piece of logic damngrumpy. Rich in history is rich in social and institutional infrastructure. That is only repressed in Egypt by western money and guns wielded by the stooge Mubarak. I/m not surprised that you quote Mussolini though. Do the trains run on time in Tel Aviv?