Basic Human Rights - Define them?


Goober
Free Thinker
#1
Basic Human Rights - Define them?
Defining a Human Right is not always as easy as it seems-
A few years ago Amnesty Int (2007) changed their position on abortion - from neutral to a Basic Human Right - A difficult decision for some - Not so difficult for others -
Access to Clean Water - Is that a Right? In my opinion yes - Same as freedom of religion - Freedom to express your opinion - and many more

To this day many countries imprison and or execute Homosexuals - Others are planning new laws to imprison and execute Homosexuals - Yet this is a basic Human Right -

Yet to this day many counties have no basics of justice - Freedom from persecutions based upon, Race, Color, Creed, Ethnic Status, Sexual Orientation and other Basic Human Rights to name a few.

Many highly respected Organizations try to hold them to account - Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch - But the persecution continues.

My Personal Opinion - The UN Human Rights Council is of no value what so ever - Dominated by countries that routinely violate the basic human rights of their citizens as defined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Some countries that in my opinion violate their citizens Human Rights - Some more so than others - In no particular orderIsrael - China - Russia - Cuba - Venezuela - Saudi Arabia - North Korea - Iran - Egypt - Sudan - Turkey - Many African countries - Vietnam - Sri Lanka - Thailand - Surinam (Formerly Burma) Cambodia - Algeria -Armenia - Kazakhstan - Afghanistan - Iraq - Yemen - Bangladesh - India - Kyrgyzstan - Nigeria - Pakistan - Uganda- Zimbabwe - West Bank - Gaza Strip- Malaysia -Syria - Laos -Eritrea -Ethiopia - Saudi Arabia - many of the former Republics of the failed USSR - Just too name a few -
Many of these violators of Basic Human rights are member of the UNHCR -
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights (external - login to view)

International Nongovernmental human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch promote and monitor human rights around the world. Human Rights organizations ""translate complex international issues into activities to be undertaken by concerned citizens in their own community"[28] Human rights organisations frequently engage in lobbying and advocacy in an effort to convince the united nations, supranational bodies and national governments to respect human rights. Many Human rights organisations have observer status at the various united nations bodies tasked with protecting human rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council (external - login to view)

According to human rights groups, the council is controlled by a bloc of Islamic and African states, backed by China, Cuba and Russia, who protect each other from criticism.[3] UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon and former High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson have criticized the council for acting according to political considerations as opposed to human rights. Specifically, Secretaries General Kofi Annan and Ban Ki Moon, the council's president Doru Costea, the European Union, Canada and the United States have criticized the council for disproportionate focus on Israel.[4][5][6][7] The United States boycotted the Council during the George W. Bush administration, but joined it during the Obama administration.[8]Un Agreement on Human Rights

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/undocs.html (external - login to view)
Present composition of the UN Human Rights Commission - Look the list over - http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/membership.htm (external - login to view)The

Universal Declartion of Human Rights
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/#atop (external - login to view)

PREAMBLEWhereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,
Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS
as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.
Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Article 6.
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7.
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 8.
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
Article 9.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10.
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 11.(1)
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Article 12.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13.(1)
Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 14.(1)
Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 15.(1)
Everyone has the right to a nationality.(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 16.(1)
Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Article 17.(1)
Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Article 20.(1)
Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.
Article 21.(1)
Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
Article 22.
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
Article 23.(1)
Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
Article 24.
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
Article 25.(1)
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 26.(1)
Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Article 27.(1)
Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
Article 28.
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.
Article 29.(1)
Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 30.
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#2
"Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

No zionist believes this and ninety percent of Israelis would laugh in your face at the thought. Accordingly the rest of the list of primal human rights, incidentally first committed to paper before the pyramids were built, carry no weight against the lawyers, the soldiers, the bankers, the financiers, the clergy, the academia, none are held to honour them except the lowly consumer. Defining human rights is easy, its entirely up to the victor.
 
AnnaG
#3
Stripped of any of the accoutrements of society, basic rights are water, food, shelter, and warmth. Any other rights are secondary to those.
If your airplane goes down in the bush and you are ok everyone else is dead, rights to freedom of speech, religion, sexual preference, etc. don't really amount to a lump of salt.
And what's more, god or nature or the universe or whatever you want to call it will snuff your right to life ina Noo Yawk Minit because you haven't even the right to life.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#4
Goober, you are confusing basic human rights with what countries around the world do or don’t do.

The basic human rights can be defined very succinctly.

Right to be treated as an equal with any other citizen.

Freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to worship.

Other than this, there are no other basic human rights. These rights themselves are very broad in nature, and encompass many things. Thus those who discriminate against homosexuals, put them in prison, whatever are not obeying the basic human rights, in that they are not treating all the citizens equally.

In my opinion, only those countries who permit gay marriage treat homosexuals equally with other citizens, those who permit civil unions (with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage) come close.

As to contraception and abortion, I think that can again come under equal rights for everybody. Men don’t have babies, so women also must have the right to refuse to have babies if they so choose (abortion and contraception). If women are forced to have babies, that does not give them equal rights with men.

Indeed, there are very few countries in the world which grant their citizens all the basic human rights.
 
AnnaG
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Goober, you are confusing basic human rights with what countries around the world do or don’t do.

The basic human rights can be defined very succinctly.

Right to be treated as an equal with any other citizen.

Freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to worship.

Other than this, there are no other basic human rights.

If you don't have water, food, etc. those "rights" don't do you a heckuva lotta good, do they?
Tell this family (what's left of it) that their basic rights arefreedom of speech, religion, worship. lmao
"Whatta maroon" - B Bunny
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Goober, you are confusing basic human rights with what countries around the world do or donít do.

The basic human rights can be defined very succinctly.

Right to be treated as an equal with any other citizen.

Freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to worship.

Other than this, there are no other basic human rights. These rights themselves are very broad in nature, and encompass many things. Thus those who discriminate against homosexuals, put them in prison, whatever are not obeying the basic human rights, in that they are not treating all the citizens equally.

In my opinion, only those countries who permit gay marriage treat homosexuals equally with other citizens, those who permit civil unions (with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage) come close.

As to contraception and abortion, I think that can again come under equal rights for everybody. Men donít have babies, so women also must have the right to refuse to have babies if they so choose (abortion and contraception). If women are forced to have babies, that does not give them equal rights with men.

Indeed, there are very few countries in the world which grant their citizens all the basic human rights.


SJP

No I do not believe that I am confusing HR and what some countries do - I was clear - HR is at times difficult to ascertain or determine - cultural differences can wreak havoc on a basis HR - Look at what some African countries are talking about - Executions Homosexuals - Then I brought forward the point of clean water - In Canada it should be a basic right as we are wealthy enough to provide that to all citizens - even though we do not, just look at some of the reserves - Other countries cannot -
 
GreenFish66
#7
Basic Human Rights... Should be ....Shelter, Food, Clothes, Health Care , Justice , In Peace with Respect 4 all ... Chartered Rights and Freedoms for all...( With Healthy Competition Encouraged/promoted/Accepted)

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (external - login to view)

Respect me for Respecting you .. Sang - Freud -" UseLess "-
Last edited by GreenFish66; Mar 1st, 2010 at 02:35 PM..
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

SJP

No I do not believe that I am confusing HR and what some countries do - I was clear - HR is at times difficult to ascertain or determine - cultural differences can wreak havoc on a basis HR - Look at what some African countries are talking about - Executions Homosexuals - Then I brought forward the point of clean water - In Canada it should be a basic right as we are wealthy enough to provide that to all citizens - even though we do not, just look at some of the reserves - Other countries cannot -

Clean water is not a basic right, Goober. Neither are food or shelter basic rights, Greenfish. Developed countries provide those because they can afford it, but many poor countries just cannot afford it.

I define basic rights as something every country must grant its citizens, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, equal rights for everybody etc. Every country can grant these rights to its citizens, every country is in a position to grant them.

Clean water on the other hand, can be granted only it the state can afford it and hence I do not consider it a basic right. Indeed, our Charter lists basic rights I don’t see anything there about the right to food, water, shelter etc. These are not basic rights.

Basic rights are those that every citizen of the world must enjoy, whether in Canada or in Ethiopia.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#9
YOU define? I think Websters does a better job of it.
 
AnnaG
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Clean water is not a basic right, Goober. Neither are food or shelter basic rights, Greenfish. Developed countries provide those because they can afford it, but many poor countries just cannot afford it.

I define basic rights as something every country must grant its citizens, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, equal rights for everybody etc. Every country can grant these rights to its citizens, every country is in a position to grant them.

Clean water on the other hand, can be granted only it the state can afford it and hence I do not consider it a basic right. Indeed, our Charter lists basic rights I don’t see anything there about the right to food, water, shelter etc. These are not basic rights.

Basic rights are those that every citizen of the world must enjoy, whether in Canada or in Ethiopia.

You define this, huh? Well, then I'd say you're priorities are just as twisted as society's priorities in general have become.
If no-one has the right to the basic items that support life, then any other "rights" are irrelevant.

"Ah, whatta maroon." - B Bunny
 
MHz
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Basic Human Rights - Define them?

The way I treat people while I am reloading my weapon.

The real goal is to get past the survival stage and get to the point where people have free time and the means to pursue whatever 'artistic endeavor' they fancy.
A two class system (master/slave) has many variations that always ends up as the few using force against many that are 'weaker in war'. There is a vast difference in their lifestyles. Human rights take a back-seat to war, that is the whole point of having a war-crimes court. With that particular court the only way to get a 'veto' is to not be charged or found not guilty after a trial.

If the laws are never enforced there is no incentive for the armies to follow them. Targeting civilians means fewer of their soldiers die in battle, the 20th century was the first time armies killed more civilians than military persons.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#12
Basic human rights include the following
1. Clean air to breathe
2. Clean water to drink
3. The right to go look for a job that will provide for other needs
4. Freedom from fear
5. Freedom from harm from other people (unfortunately the tax man is still among us)
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#13
One of the main problems these days if not THE MAIN PROBLEM is everyone wants something on a silver platter (along with a gold knife, fork and spoon)
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#14
P.S. to #12
6. Freedom from having to listen to other people whining.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Basic human rights include the following
1. Clean air to breathe
2. Clean water to drink
3. The right to go look for a job that will provide for other needs
4. Freedom from fear
5. Freedom from harm from other people (unfortunately the tax man is still among us)

None of these rights are listed in the Charter, JLM. It is interesting that you regard clean water as a right, but you don't list food as a right. This really goes to show that none of them are basic rights (anybody may arbitrarily pick any right as the basic right).

To me, basic rights are those listed in the constitution, Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights etc. Right to clean water, food, freedom from fear etc. are not basic rights.

Freedom from fear, really? If you choose to be afraid of say, spiders. Who is going to free you from fear of spiders, the government?
 
Downhome_Woman
Free Thinker
#16
SJP, your remarks: Goober, you are confusing basic human rights with what countries around the world do or donít do.

The basic human rights can be defined very succinctly.

Right to be treated as an equal with any other citizen.

Freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to worship.

Other than this, there are no other basic human rights. These rights themselves are very broad in nature, and encompass many things. Thus those who discriminate against homosexuals, put them in prison, whatever are not obeying the basic human rights, in that they are not treating all the citizens equally.

In my opinion, only those countries who permit gay marriage treat homosexuals equally with other citizens, those who permit civil unions (with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage) come close.

As to contraception and abortion, I think that can again come under equal rights for everybody. Men donít have babies, so women also must have the right to refuse to have babies if they so choose (abortion and contraception). If women are forced to have babies, that does not give them equal rights with men.
"The right to be treated as an equal of every other citizen"?
Why? If someone has given more to this country, sacrificed more to this country and its citizens, and done more for this country and its citizens than I have, than why should i assume that i should be treated as an equal of that person?
Freedom of the press? This assumes that the press reports without bias. We have all seem that the press reports with every bias there is. Does the press have the right to destroy a persons life - just because the public has a right to know whatever 'fact; appears on YouTube? If the press behaved responsibly and actually researched their stories I might agree, but as i believe that they tend to rely on the 'quick fix' (you tube, blogs, tweets', etc, rather than good journalism? No - that whole freedom of the press thing is frivolous - there are too many other things that are more important.
Yes - people have a right to a decent education - let's say grade 10. you can read, the world has been opened to you, you can do basic math - your mind is stimulated.
Oh good grief - I read your list of basic human rights - and you are such an elitist!
Freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to worship

.[/U][/I][/B]
OH MY GOODNESS! Do you really realize just how elitist you sound (and for me to use that term? That's something!)You talk about ideas - but you don't seem to want to understand that these ideas never reach fruition unless people have food in their bellies, clean water in their wells and have basic healthcare! Do you not know what the big bugabear of the womens movement in North America eagarding women in Afghanistan is the Burqua? Do you also realize that the issue least worrying to the womens movement in Afghanistan is the Burqua>> They're more concerned with the day to day issues like health care and education.
Oh good Grief SJP - for such a 'liberal', you tend to concentrate more on the theory of 'rights' rather than the actual application. But then again, I get the feeling that you are an academic who lives in the world of theory rather than reality, so I understand ....
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

None of these rights are listed in the Charter, JLM. It is interesting that you regard clean water as a right, but you don't list food as a right. This really goes to show that none of them are basic rights (anybody may arbitrarily pick any right as the basic right).

To me, basic rights are those listed in the constitution, Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights etc. Right to clean water, food, freedom from fear etc. are not basic rights.

Freedom from fear, really? If you choose to be afraid of say, spiders. Who is going to free you from fear of spiders, the government?

The Charter pertains to Canada only and has nothng to do with basic human rights. Food is included in #3.
 
earth_as_one
#18
Since humans can't live without air, food and water, these are fundamental human rights. Denying people access to the fundamentals of life is a crime. Above some number of people, its a crime against humanity, and all western nations are either guilty of this crime either directly or by association...

Quote:

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

9/11 was five years and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi children later...

Some people reading Madleine Albright's statement would probably feel differently if she was talking about American or Canadian children. A Western children dying needlessly is a newsworthy tragedy. Half a million Arab children dying needlessly based on lies and deceptions is a statistic, barely worth mentioning, let alone demanding someone be held accountable for committing a crime against humanity. Likely our adversaries in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere have give these crimes closer scrutiny than most people reading this post.

Even now after it is known that Iraq no longer possessed WMDs, that the justification for the embargo and the subsequent war which killed over a million people and displaced five million more was a deliberate fabrication, we don't give much thought to this crime, let alone demand someone be held accountable. That would mean admitting that we did nothing as criminals starved hundreds of thousands of innocent children to death.

Nothing has changed. Currently 1.5 million people suffer a man made famine and plague. Its is in its third year now, yet it never makes the news and no one talks about it. Decide for yourself how innocent we are:
Documentary: The Silent War - Israel's Blockade of Gaza | rabble.ca (external - login to view)

How outraged are our leaders??? Judge for yourself:
Prime Minister of Canada: Prime Minister’s Speech for Israel’s 60th Anniversary (external - login to view)
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 2nd, 2010 at 01:13 AM..
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Since humans can't live without air, food and water, these are fundamental human rights. Denying people access to the fundamentals of life is a crime. Above some number of people, its a crime against humanity, and all western nations are either guilty of this crime either directly or by association...
9/11 was five years and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi children later...
Some people reading Madleine Albright's statement would probably feel differently if she was talking about American or Canadian children. When one of Western children dies needlessly its a newsworthy tragedy. When half a million Arab children die needlessly based on lies and deception, that's a statistic, barely worth mentioning, let alone demanding accountability.
We heard few complaints about this crime against humanity even after it was known that Iraq never possessed WMDs, that the justification for the embargo and the subsequent war which killed over a million people and displaced five million more was a deliberate fabrication. That would mean admitting that we did nothing as hundreds of thousands of innocent children starved needlessly.
Nothing has changed. This man made famine and plague is in its third year, yet it never makes the news and no one talks about it and most of those who are aware try not to think about it. Decide for yourself how innocent we are:

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Do you think people should earn their food or do you think it should just be handed to them?
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#20
Open question but also directed to certain posters so that we can see varying viewpoints of what are Human Rights as described in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The Charter, Bill of rights and the US Constitution are out of bounds - reason - Country specific.
In the The Universal Declaration of Human Rights there are 30 Articles listed.

Try and identify countries - that do not meet 20 of these Rights.

Meaning they severely and I do mean severely restrict this rights - One of's do not meet the criteria. - patterns over a long period of time show a country as it should be.

Minimum number of countries to be listed would be 7 - this prevents people from singling out a specific country as some would do.

I offer this question to all but I am in favor of differing opinions so I would ask SJP, DHW, my favourite EAO, Dark Beaver, Lone Wolf, JLM and MHZ.

I am sure that all would agree that these posters at times are quite different in their interpretations of events.

Now the rules are - List the article and where a country blatantly violates this single article - single instances do not count as they do not show a pattern

Point - When you list a country - look at the countries neighbours - Just as a cold from a total stranger can be caught so can human rights also expand or be severely limited. I think this is fairly easy but I have asked people who I agree with and ones that I do not -

It is open to everyone but the reason I asked these particular posters is that they bring diverging opinions to the discussion.
 
Liberalman
#21
True human rights belong to the people that have wealth because they can change their situation.

How about the poor and the homeless on the streets of free countries like America or Canada and the rest of the free world.

How about the fetus rights to exist safely in the womb until birth instead of being viciously ripped out of there piece by bloody piece.

You just can't pick and choose basic human right they must apply to everyone not just a few that an organization picks.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

True human rights belong to the people that have wealth because they can change their situation.

How about the poor and the homeless on the streets of free countries like America or Canada and the rest of the free world.

How about the fetus rights to exist safely in the womb until birth instead of being viciously ripped out of there piece by bloody piece.

You just can't pick and choose basic human right they must apply to everyone not just a few that an organization picks.

Very true.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#23
Goober, when I posted my views on basic rights, it was just my opinion. However, I read the article on human rights in Wikipedia and it bears me out to a surprising extent.

There is no right listed by United Nations with respect to food, shelter or water. On the contrary, the article specifically states the following:

There is no current universal human right to water, binding or not, enshrined by the United Nations or any other multilateral body.

There have been a few non binding statements by some UN official as to how everybody should have access to water, but no basic right as such.

Interestingly, you also don’t seem to mention the right to food, water, shelter etc. when you blame countries for violating human rights.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Yet to this day many counties have no basics of justice - Freedom from persecutions based upon, Race, Color, Creed, Ethnic Status, Sexual Orientation and other Basic Human Rights to name a few.

As to UN declaration of human rights, rights 1 to 10 deals with the basic rights that I have mentioned. The right to food comes way down the list, no, 25, demonstrating that UN does not really regard it as a basic right. When it comes so far down the line, it really must be regarded as a wish list, rather than a basic right.

And quite rightly too. If a country is very poor, it cannot grant the right to food and water through no fault of its own. It would be absurd to blame a country for something that it does not have resources to do.

Equality, freedom of press, freedom of speech, of religion etc. are within the capability of every nation to bestow, there is no excuse not to bestow them and hence they are regarded a basic human rights.

As to food, water and shelter, it is a wish list, we would hope that everybody in the world has sufficient food, water and shelter. But that is not a basic right.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#24
"But that is not a basic right."

Let's not get hung up on semantics, call them basic needs if you like. If these can not be fulfilled, then the "basic rights" become a moot point.
 
CDNBear
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

"But that is not a basic right."

Let's not get hung up on semantics, call them basic needs if you like. If these can not be fulfilled, then the "basic rights" become a moot point.

This may very well be true, but some have used this lie to attack Israel, with cries of crimes against humanity, just look at eao's threads/posts. It's a common theme to attack Israel with accusations of denying water, which isn't true mind you, as a crime against humanity. It isn't listed as such. Thus making it an opinion, not a fact.
 
earth_as_one
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Do you think people should earn their food or do you think it should just be handed to them?

Of course people should be taught to fish rather than be given fish over the long-term. In the case of humanitarian disasters like Haiti, New Orleans after Katrina... emergency aid should be immediate. After a few weeks the emphasis should switch to building infrastructure.
 
CDNBear
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Of course people should be taught to fish rather than be given fish over the long-term. In the case of humanitarian disasters like Haiti, New Orleans after Katrina... emergency aid should be immediate. After a few weeks the emphasis should switch to building infrastructure.

Then why is it Israel's responsibility to make sure Palestinians have said supplies? I mean according to you anyways...
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Of course people should be taught to fish rather than be given fish over the long-term. In the case of humanitarian disasters like Haiti, New Orleans after Katrina... emergency aid should be immediate. After a few weeks the emphasis should switch to building infrastructure.

Absolutely- but at that point the recipient incurs an obligation.
 
earth_as_one
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Absolutely- but at that point the recipient incurs an obligation.

When I give to charity, I don't expect nothing in return except to be thanked. My true reward are the results.
 
selin
Free Thinker
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

When I give to charity, I don't expect nothing in return except to be thanked. My true reward are the results.


an honest approach ,of course
 

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