US Deficit - Default by stealth - Currency depreciation- Will it come?

Goober

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US Deficit - Default by stealth - Currency depreciation- Will it come?
Can the US sutain such large deficits without eventually implementing massive cuts - In my opinion No -
Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

The Obama administration will raise its 10-year budget deficit projection to approximately $9 trillion from $7.108 trillion in a report next week, a senior administration official told Reuters on Friday.The higher deficit figure, based on updated economic data, brings the White House budget office into line with outside estimates and gives further fuel to President Barack Obama's opponents, who say his spending plans are too expensive in light of budget shortfalls.

The White House took heat for sticking with its $7.108 trillion forecast earlier this year after the Congressional Budget Office forecast that deficits between 2010 and 2019 would total $9.1 trillion.

"The new forecasts are based on new data that reflect how severe the economic downturn was in the late fall of last year and the winter of this year," said the administration official, who is familiar with the budget mid-session review that is slated to be released next week."Our budget projections are now in line with the spring and summer projections that the Congressional Budget Office put out.

"The White House budget office will also lower its deficit forecast for this fiscal year, which ends September 30, to $1.58 trillion from $1.84 trillion next week after removing $250 billion set aside for bank bailouts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/us/politics/02deficit.html

In a federal budget filled with mind-boggling statistics, two numbers stand out as particularly stunning, for the way they may change American politics and American power.

The first is the projected deficit in the coming year, nearly 11 percent of the country’s entire economic output. That is not unprecedented: During the Civil War, World War I and World War II, the United States ran soaring deficits, but usually with the expectation that they would come back down once peace was restored and war spending abated.

But the second number, buried deeper in the budget’s projections, is the one that really commands attention:

By President Obama’s own optimistic projections, American deficits will not return to what are widely considered sustainable levels over the next 10 years. In fact, in 2019 and 2020 —

years after Mr. Obama has left the political scene, even if he serves two terms — they start rising again sharply, to more than 5 percent of gross domestic product. His budget draws a picture of a nation that like many American homeowners simply cannot get above water.

For Mr. Obama and his successors, the effect of those projections is clear: Unless miraculous growth, or miraculous political compromises, creates some unforeseen change over the next decade, there is virtually no room for new domestic initiatives for Mr. Obama or his successors. Beyond that lies the possibility that the United States could begin to suffer the same disease that has afflicted Japan over the past decade. As debt grew more rapidly than income, that country’s influence around the world eroded.

Or, as Mr. Obama’s chief economic adviser, Lawrence H. Summers, used to ask before he entered government a year ago, “How long can the world’s biggest borrower remain the world’s biggest power?

The Chinese leadership, which is lending much of the money to finance the American government’s spending, and which asked pointed questions about Mr. Obama’s budget when members visited Washington last summer, says it thinks the long-term answer to Mr. Summers’s question is self-evident. The Europeans will also tell you that this is a big worry about the next decade.Mr. Obama himself hinted at his own concern when he announced in early December that he planned to send 30,000 American troops to Afghanistan, but insisted that the United States could not afford to stay for long.

“Our prosperity provides a foundation for our power,” he told cadets at West Point. “It pays for our military. It underwrites our diplomacy. It taps the potential of our people, and allows investment in new industry.”

And then he explained why even a “war of necessity,” as he called Afghanistan last summer, could not last for long.“That’s why our troop commitment in Afghanistan cannot be open-ended,” he said then, “because the nation that I’m most interested in building is our own.”
 

weaselwords

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Nov 10, 2009
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It really doesn't make a difference whether the deficit is insupportable domesticly or not, support will come from the rest of the world if & until another economic power can fill the void. Remember it is not only production that creates aprsperous atmosphere but also consumption, there are combinations of several countries that can effect the production (eg China, India, Japan} but there is no combination to outstrio the US's zeal for consumption. Therefore for the forseeable future the USA still has a free ride but there will be H*ll be pay sometime late this century.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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It really doesn't make a difference whether the deficit is insupportable domesticly or not, support will come from the rest of the world if & until another economic power can fill the void. Remember it is not only production that creates aprsperous atmosphere but also consumption, there are combinations of several countries that can effect the production (eg China, India, Japan} but there is no combination to outstrio the US's zeal for consumption. Therefore for the forseeable future the USA still has a free ride but there will be H*ll be pay sometime late this century.
Late this century?

It already came late last century.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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It really doesn't make a difference whether the deficit is insupportable domesticly or not, support will come from the rest of the world if & until another economic power can fill the void. Remember it is not only production that creates aprsperous atmosphere but also consumption, there are combinations of several countries that can effect the production (eg China, India, Japan} but there is no combination to outstrio the US's zeal for consumption. Therefore for the forseeable future the USA still has a free ride but there will be H*ll be pay sometime late this century.

Very true. Because we consume like idiots we'll still be propped up by the likes of China. Calling in the debt would basically find China in deep trouble shortly after because nobody consumes like us. I doubt any country will for some time. If they call in the debt, crash the economy our money will really be worthless. Where will they sell everything from birthday candles to TVs in that volume?
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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To the other 5.65 Billion people on the planet. That's who.

Well I know you like to zing us but the other 5.65 Billion do not consume like we do. I am not bragging about as I think it is disgusting to be quite honest that we consume so much. Give me a stat on how much of those people are living below the poverty level. Give me a stat on the buying power of the average family living outside the US. Our demand for consumer goods is astounding and wasteful.

But if you want to be simply sophmoric...please continue.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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If Nor Am cut it's consuming by 50% prices would plummet making formerly overpriced items affordable to the other 5.65 B and the big producers wouldn't miss a beat. Other small nations could actually have economies that aren't just giving away bananas for expired medicines and IMF payments. That would means they would be ablet to tax the new consumers to build them roads and social insitutions like schools and such.

That doesn't sound so ****y does it?

Unless it's a global govt doing this for them. Then not so good.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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I may as well say it, we consume because we can. We are richer on average than the other 5.65 billion. There is no reason for us to reduce our spending except to save some generation we are not connected to yet. I agree we should, but things look so good.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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A good deal of the reaction to a nation's debt has to do with how the debt is perceived. In the USA the media has succeeded in convincing many Americans that their debt is out of control, when that is actually far from the reality. Currently the total US debt is about 61% of GNP. This compares to Canada's 64%, Germany's 65% and Japan's 170%. I don't know about the Japanese, but the Germans and Canadians are not particularly concerned about the debt.

The US does has some concerns, because unlike Canada's debt, which is almost entirely internal, the US has a lot of foreign creditors. However, the debt can be managed. Canada's debt peaked in the 1990s at about 78% of GNP and declined rapidly once balanced budgets were instituted. The recent stimulus package in Canada added another 55 billion to the debt, but the budget can easily be balanced with modest tax increases.

And that is the solution to the US debt problem. The US has a debt primarily due to the fact that recent governments cut taxes and increased spending. What did they expect would happen? That somehow the budget would magically balance itself?

The US has to institute a program of collecting taxes once again - either that or radically cut spending. There really are only a few ways to balance the budget:
1. cut spending
2. increase taxes
3. generate more revenue from an increase in GNP
Or all three.

Perhaps it is about time that US politicians stopped promising ever lower taxes in order to win votes and faced the fact that lower taxes mean lower revenues.

Below is a link to the national debt of various nations, the US included. Judge for yourself.
Public debt by country. Definition, graph and map.
 
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