China Flexes its muscles...

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Did the power scale just tip in China's direction?

China renews US arms-sale warning

China regards Taiwan as a renegade province and has vowed to bring the island under mainland rule [EPA]
China has given warning to the US about the severe consequences of its arms sales to Taiwan, saying the move will undermine Chinese-US co-operation.
The country's foreign minister, defence ministry and top legislative body have condemned the sale since the US plan entered the final stages on Friday.
The sale is valued at $6.4bn and includes Black Hawk helicopters, missile defence systems and communications technology.
"China firmly opposes and is strongly dissatisfied with arms sales to Taiwan by the United States," Jiang Yu, a foreign ministry spokesperson, said in a statement on Sunday.
China has already suspended planned exchange of military visits with the US and is also threatening to impose sanctions on any US companies involved in the deal.
"The Taiwan issue involves China's sovereignty and integrity, which concerns China's core interests," a Chinese defence ministry spokesman said on Saturday.
"China is resolved not to yield or compromise on this issue. China's army will be determined in fighting against any conduct that threatens China's sovereignty, integrity and national security."....

Al Jazeera English - Asia-Pacific - China renews US arms-sale warning

The not so thinnly veiled threat is aimed at all American defense contractors who depend on Chinese trade as a source of components:

...following the end of the Cold War there has been a deliberate decomposition of U.S. industry, unprecedented in American history. There are a number of factors which have contributed to U.S. dependence on foreign trade, primarily with India and China, which has not only led to millions of U.S. manufacturing and engineering jobs permanently lost, but paints a grim picture for the long term stability of the U.S. military supply line....

American Chronicle | Eroding U.S. Industrial Base Comes With Price

Those arms won't work too well if the US faced an embargo of critical military components.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Simple really.....conflict between the free world and China is practically inevitable. History teaches us over and over that one does not avoid conflict by appeasement. The USA needs to start thumbing its nose at China......perhaps the US government could throw in a few freebies for the democratic nation of Taiwan, move a couple of aircraft carriers over for a nice friendly visit, start treating China like our potential enemy, as it so clearly is.

Our current attitude towards China is suicidal.......plain and simple.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
The US is hardly in a position "to start thumbing its nose at China". China props up the US.

China may not be the American military's equal, but they aren't far off and growing in strength. Meanwhile the US is slowly being dragged down by two unwinnable wars.

If China wanted to hurt the US, they could dump their trillions in $US and impose a trade embargo. China's suffering would be relatively minor compared to the resulting US crash. The Americans would be crushed by a worthless American dollar and no parts for both civilian and military industry... There's probably so much cheap China made crap in the American carriers, that without a constant stream of replacement parts from China, they might not make it home, let alone pose a credible threat. ;)

Both China and the US know China props up the US, and that it won't last forever. The only reason why the Chinese haven't pulled the plug on the American life support is that its not currently in their best interest.

China just gave fair warning to American military contractors regarding Taiwan. Next will be Iran.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
China-Iran relations:

China finds in Iran a permanent partner for its exports and a source for its growing energy demand. In March 2004, Zhuhai Zhenrong Corporation, a Chinese state-run company, signed a 25-year contract to import 110 million metric tons of Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) from Iran. This was followed by another contract between Sinopec and Iran LNG, signed in October of the same year. The deal, worth $100 billion, adds an extra 250 million tons of LNG to China's energy supply, to be extracted from Iran's Yadavaran field over a 25-year period. In January 2009, Iran and China signed a $1.76bn contract for the initial development of the North Azadegan oil field in western Iran. In March the two countries struck a three-year $3.39 billion deal to produce liquefied natural gas in Iran’s mammoth South Pars natural gas field. Because of its limited refining capacity Iran imports one third of its refined products such as petrol from China.[9][10]
In 2001, the volume of trade between Iran and China stood at $3.3 Billion [1], and in 2005, the volume of Sino-Iranian trade hit $US 9.2 billion. [2] In 2005, exports from China represented 8.3% of the total import market in Iran, giving China the second largest share of the market after Germany. China's exports to Iran have experienced particularly rapid growth in the past five years, with China replacing Japan as the world's second largest exporter to Iran. Iran's imports from China rose by 360% between 2000 and 2005. Aside from China's inexpensive products, Iran is also buying more from China for strategic reasons.[3]. Iran’s Deputy Minister of Commerce Mehdi Ghazanfari said trade exchanges between Iran and China will exceed $25 billion in 2008.[11] Iran is currently China’s third largest supplier of crude, providing China with roughly 12 percent of its total annual oil consumption (nearly one million barrels daily).[12]
Ali Akbar Saheli, Iran's former representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency said that the two countries "mutually complement each other. They have industry and we have energy resources". [4]


wiki
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
Simple really.....conflict between the free world and China is practically inevitable. History teaches us over and over that one does not avoid conflict by appeasement. The USA needs to start thumbing its nose at China......perhaps the US government could throw in a few freebies for the democratic nation of Taiwan, move a couple of aircraft carriers over for a nice friendly visit, start treating China like our potential enemy, as it so clearly is.

Our current attitude towards China is suicidal.......plain and simple.

Perhaps China can just call in the US debt.....they have America by the balls. Just think of it, war with china and no more happy meal toys.:lol:
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
"Perhaps China can just call in the US debt.....they have America by the balls. Just think of it, war with china and no more happy meal toys."

So, if you are so unfriendly towards the United States and so friendly towards the most efficient mass murderers in history, why don't you move to your socialist/communist Paradise?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
"Perhaps China can just call in the US debt.....they have America by the balls. Just think of it, war with china and no more happy meal toys."

So, if you are so unfriendly towards the United States and so friendly towards the most efficient mass murderers in history, why don't you move to your socialist/communist Paradise?

Exactly.

China loves mass murder, is heavily involved in most of the psycho-states on earth, the Sudan, Iran, Zimbabwe....**** China.....

And currently, in an economic or a military conflict, China would be grist in the American mill. Ground to dust.

China's power is growing by leaps and bounds.......I withdraw my last comment.

Conflict with China....the sooner, the better.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
"Perhaps China can just call in the US debt.....they have America by the balls. Just think of it, war with china and no more happy meal toys."

So, if you are so unfriendly towards the United States and so friendly towards the most efficient mass murderers in history, why don't you move to your socialist/communist Paradise?

If you have ever read any of my posts regarding China you will see your response was massively misinformed.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
Exactly.

China loves mass murder, is heavily involved in most of the psycho-states on earth, the Sudan, Iran, Zimbabwe....**** China.....

And currently, in an economic or a military conflict, China would be grist in the American mill. Ground to dust.

China's power is growing by leaps and bounds.......I withdraw my last comment.

Conflict with China....the sooner, the better.

Wow, you sure do have delusions of grandeur. The yanks can't beat poorly armed Muslims and you think they can defeat a well armed force of who knows how many and nukes to boot?

Not to mention the economic impact of such a conflict.

Give me what you're smoking because it must be some crazy sh*t.:lol:
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
China has alot of people yes, but they wouldnt be able to sustain a war for long, they just have too much on there plate. And china vs USA wont be as linear as that, the US will have allies and lots of them
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
China has alot of people yes, but they wouldnt be able to sustain a war for long, they just have too much on there plate. And china vs USA wont be as linear as that, the US will have allies and lots of them

:lol:

All the same success stories they've had in the war on terror and now the lovers of america think they can now start another war with over a billion people who btw have allies as well.

:roll::lol::roll::lol:
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
Simple really.....conflict between the free world and China is practically inevitable. History teaches us over and over that one does not avoid conflict by appeasement. The USA needs to start thumbing its nose at China......perhaps the US government could throw in a few freebies for the democratic nation of Taiwan, move a couple of aircraft carriers over for a nice friendly visit, start treating China like our potential enemy, as it so clearly is.

Our current attitude towards China is suicidal.......plain and simple.

You certainly are living up to our expectations. You didn't give much thought to this response.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
:lol:

All the same success stories they've had in the war on terror and now the lovers of america think they can now start another war with over a billion people who btw have allies as well.

:roll::lol::roll::lol:

as well as nucleur weapons....
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
:lol:

All the same success stories they've had in the war on terror and now the lovers of america think they can now start another war with over a billion people who btw have allies as well.

:roll::lol::roll::lol:

In my opinion the Chinesse airforce and navy would get spanked by the americans. A land war in china well of course america will get worked... China would win a war of attrition but they wont weather it as well as people think
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
In my opinion the Chinesse airforce and navy would get spanked by the americans. A land war in china well of course america will get worked... China would win a war of attrition but they wont weather it as well as people think
But America would still lose in more ways
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
China has alot of people yes, but they wouldnt be able to sustain a war for long, they just have too much on there plate. And china vs USA wont be as linear as that, the US will have allies and lots of them

What exactly does China have on its plate? They have no wars and are a growing military and economic superpower. Compared to the US which suffers two simultaneous wars and a massive growing debt.

As far as allies are concerned many of them including Canada are looking for ways to end our commitments to American led wars.

If current trends continue, China will eclipse the US in economic and military strength. That China can threaten the US military industry indicates how much their power and influence has grown. BTW, everytime you buy some cheap Chinese crap from Walmart, you are helping China grow...
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
i was comparing man to man. Chinese pilots arent as good as american pilots. The navy, america's is still way more capable before the chinese navy.

it would turn into a war of attrition... and obviously china wins
As for stuff on their plate, i was thinkin those big buildings holding all those people start going down. Where are they all going to live, in the subways? Theres alot to maintain in my opinion.

BTW, everytime you buy some cheap Chinese crap from Walmart, you are helping China grow...
is that why it says made in china?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
A condition right or wrong of China replacing Taiwan in the United Nations was that the U.S. would guarantee Taiwan's Independence. It is easy to find out, but I think other countries made the same commitment. We are obligated to give them what ever they need to defend themselves.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
If current trends continue, China will eclipse the US in economic and military strength. .......... BTW, everytime you buy some cheap Chinese crap from Walmart, you are helping China grow...

With this, at least, I fully agree.

And that would be a disaster......for human rights, for the well-being of the world and all its peoples.

And for western civilization.

This subject really gets me upset. It is insane how we are dealing (or rather, failing to deal) with the burgeoning monster.....instead we feed her......ARGH!!!!!