Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

I disagree and think Israel should be held to their agreement.

Also this statement is another common misperception:

In 1967 Israel attacked their neighbors without warning. Israel initiated that war, not its neighbors. I suggest you read up on it:

It wasn't exactly a sneak attack since tensions had been escalating in the region for some time. But Israel initiated that war without without warning. Israeli apologists have distorted the facts regarding the 1967 war from a Pearl Harbor like attack into some sort of self defense.

Most of what people commonly believe about Israel/Zionism is not actually true. The more you dig into Israel's history, the more you discover that many commonly held beliefs regarding this conflict are actually manipulated misperceptions.

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack

Really? They aren't doing a very good job then are they?

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly and made the world community smile. A representative from Israel began: 'Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Moses. When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, 'What a good opportunity to have a bath!' He removed his clothes, put them aside on
the rock and entered the water. When he got out and wanted to dress, his
clothes had vanished. A Palestinian had stolen them.' The Palestinian representative jumped up furiously and shouted, 'What are you talking about? The Palestinians weren't there then.'
The Israeli representative smiled and said, 'And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Yes it is. The ancestors of today's Jews took over that territory by force of arms in biblical times and the scrapping has been going on ever since. Not constantly, I agree, but pretty steadily. You're focusing on Zionism specifically, I'm talking about ethnic and internecine conflict in that area more generally, which has indeed been going on for thousands of years.

...Nine years later, Moshe Dayan, the Israeli defense minister at the time of the war, stated in an interview not published until 1997 that Israeli policy on the Syrian border between 1949 and 1967 consisted of "snatching bits of territory and holding on to it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us." About events on the Israeli-Syrian border he said:[43][44][45][46]
After all, I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was. I did that, and Laskov and Czera did that, and Yitzhak did that, but it seemed to me that the person who most enjoyed these games was Dado. We thought that we could change the lines of the ceasefire accords by military actions that were less than war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us.
Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

Suffice to say Israel attacked first and without warning.

Yes there was a military buildup, on both sides of the border. And Egypt's President made a number of beligerent statements and threats as well as closed the straights of Tiran to all boats carrying strategic materials and goods to Israel.

But Israel was not attacked first as per the common misperception. Israel inititated the war and making it sound like self defense is plain wrong. Israel attacked with overwhleming force suddenly and without warning and kept all the land they conquered.

So its clear that Israel was playing games in order to provoke and justify a war. Israel planned all along to use their superior military force to invade, occupy and annex more land. Hardly an example of self defense.

At the end of May 1967, Jordanian forces were given to the command of an Egyptian general, Abdul Munim Riad.[88] On the same day, Nasser proclaimed: "The armies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more...

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Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

You also seem to be skipping the original crime, Jews making war against Arab civilians for more than 5 months prior to the war of independence way back. Do you understand that those are war-crimes and that was the start of the current conflict.
It would seem that if a crime can go 20 years without prosecution the it ceases to be a crime. Israel had been practicing for the 6 day war since '65.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Yes I do. You don't appear to know the difference between reason in the sense of logic, and reason in the sense of an explanation.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Now that Christianity has been "wiped off the map" in Israel....who is to blame?

Come all you AnteSemites who is to blame?

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Those damn IslamoNazis?

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Now that Christianity has been "wiped off the map" in Israel....who is to blame?

Come all you AnteSemites who is to blame?

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

Went looking for demographics and could not find to much info -do you have stats??

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

"Israel had been practicing for the 6 day war since '65." Yes, and they did a pretty good job, think I'll just sit back while those who want to destroy me build up and get ready. Hardly, they cannot afford to lose even once.
Israel really did not have any other option once the mighty United Nations bugged out. Even if Israel gave all the land reclaimed since 1948 back, you would still find fault with them. Israel will destroy the Palestinians and the Arab nations totally if there is another war.

I would like to see a peaceful solution also, but not at the expense of another war that you are encouraging, because that is the only way you will see a solution, and you won't like the results again.

On 29 March 2002, Israel began what it called "Operation Defensive Shield", an unprecedented invasion of Palestinian towns to "defeat the infrastructure of Palestinian terror in all its parts and components" according to the Israeli Cabinet Communique that announced the massive military operation.
At approximately 2:00 a.m. on 2 April 2002, Israeli occupation forces invaded the neighbouring towns of Bethlehem, Beit Jala, and Beit Sahour, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights: "using approximately 250 tanks and armored personnel carriers, F-16 fighter jets, and Apache gunships. At approximately 04:30, they seized full control over the three cities, except the Old Town. In the invasion, which was accompanied by indiscriminate shelling, 60-year-old �Aaboud al-�Ameri, from Bethlehem, a guard of a building in Beit Sahour, was killed.
At approximately 10:15, Israeli occupation forces fired three artillery shells at the house of Khaled Ibrahim �Aabda, 38. He and his mother, Sumaia Hussein �Aabda, 60, were killed by shrapnel. Israeli forces did not allow the evacuation of the bodies to hospital or their burial. The bodies remained with other residents of the house, including children, in the same room.
At approximately 11:30, Israeli occupation forces shelled Santa Maria Church in al-Madbasa neighborhood. A number of priests and nuns were wounded, including Father Jack As�ad, a Palestinian who holds the...

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Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Now and then type stats? Number of Christians killed by Israel? Number of those who fled to the borderlands of Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt? Number of Christians that still try to survive under Israeli oppression and occupation in West Bank and Gaza? The number of Christians in Israeli prisons?

You don't need a world class army to go raiding tiny villages in the middle of the night.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

Went looking for demographics and could not find to much info -do you have stats??

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

Demographics over the past 50 -100 years based upon religion - How many jews, Muslims, Druze, Christians -

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Just make sure to paint your door with lamb's blood.

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

They painted the villages with blood all right.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

Suffice to say Israel attacked first and without warning.
You accuse me of half truths IS??? I was just pointing out that Israel initiated that war which is true. If you want more details I can give it. But unlike you I'll comment on what BOTH sides did. You only mention what Israel's Arab neighbors did, which is only half the truth.
Yes there were cross border raids. Palestinian guerillas would launch small cross border raids into Israel and Israel would attack their camps on the other side of the borders. That had been going on for years. The biggest raid was when Israel attacked a series of dams in Syria in March, May, and August 1965, perpetuating a prolonged chain of border violence that linked directly to the events leading to war. Mind you Syria was diverting the Jordan river...
Yes there was a military buildup, on both sides of the border. And Egypt's President made a number of beligerent statements and threats as well as closed the straights of Tiran to all boats carrying strategic materials and goods to Israel.
But Israel was not attacked first as per the common misperception. Israel inititated the war and making it sound like self defense is plain wrong. Israel attacked with overwhleming force suddenly and without warning and kept all the land they conquered. Also consider this:

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Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Israel's pre-emptive strike was just that.........and absolutely a legitimate action, necessary to the preservation of the state.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

I will post this again as I had no replies - Open questionI see The statement by Canaduh as clearly Racist - Am I wrong, right or prejudiced?Canaduh

Your quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card".
The Native American "holocaust" happened before the media could latch onto it, not to mention the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card.

KIEV, Ukraine (JTA) – A Jewish group in Ukraine is objecting to a criminal case brought over the “Great Famine” committed in the 1930s.
The nation’s security service is pressing the case against a list of former Soviet officials accused of committing the Holodomor, which caused the deaths of millions in Ukraine in 1932-33. Most of the names on the list were Jewish.
Ukrainian lawmaker Aleksandr Feldman, leader of the Ukrainian Jewish Committee, said last week that it was “a farce” to press the case.
“All organizers of the Great Famine are dead,” he said.
Last July, the Ukrainian Security Service released a list of high-ranking Soviet state and Communist Party officials – as well as officials from NKVD, the police force of Soviet Russia – that essentially blamed Jews and Latvians responsible for perpetrating and executing the famine because most of the names on the list were Jewish.
The Ukrainian Jewish Committee called on the secret service to revise the list, which incited interethnic hatred, in order to clear up the “inaccuracy.”
Feldman believes there is a danger that the “Holodomor Affair” materials are being used for political purposes.
In late May, security service head Valentin Nalivaychenko claimed at a meeting with representatives of the World Congress of Ukrainians that “Ukraine has collected enough evidence to bring a criminal case regarding the famine, which was artificially created by the Bolshevik regime...

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