Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

I think it has something to do with the legality of UN Resolution 181 in the first place and that document wasn't followed even slightly by the Jews. Making refugees of the existing population voided that paper, that was their only claim to being there today.

The God imposed exile is to last until Christ's return, that is an event that cannot be mistaken for anything else than what it is. If the dead haven't risen then God is not involved. No end-time event can last longer than 10 years. Christ flattens the whole of Israel, builds His temple (complete with living water in the form of a wide river) and then the Jews are invited home. If it doesn't follow that pattern then God is not involved, oh almost forgot, every sinner (murderers, thieves, etc)in the world would be dead.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

EAO

What countries did Isreal have borders with after the 48 War

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

How many of the 13 are within one days travel?
Against: 13
Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

Canaduh

Your quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card".

I had hoped that hate would not creep into this forum -

But Canaduh I have the opinion you would be quite comfortable at an Aryan Nations meeting. Well would you

The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering is a book published in 2000 by Norman G. Finkelstein, that argues that the American Jewish establishment exploits the memory of the Nazi Holocaust for political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of Israel.[1] According to Finkelstein, this "Holocaust industry" has corrupted Jewish culture and the authentic memory of the Holocaust. Finkelstein's parents were both Holocaust survivors who had been inmates of concentration camps.[2]...

...In the foreword to the first paperback edition, Finkelstein notes that the first Hardback edition had been a considerable hit in several European countries and many languages, but had been panned in the US. He sees the New York Times as the main promotional vehicle of the Holocaust industry, and notes that the 1999 Index listed 273 entries for the Holocaust and just 32 entries for the whole of Africa....

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Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

EAO

You are always in favor of anything that punishes Israel - The reality you cannot face is they both got into it and they both have to get out of it - You are in favor of Israel being a State but Israel has made offers - Blaming everything on Israel is unrealistic and simplistic and shows a clear bias of hate. -

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

I criticize Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity, not any religious group or race. I have only supported the universal application of international laws, treaties and conventions. Israel has gotten away with murder literally and repeatedly and my posts on this subject are about justice and freedom. I have never said anything negative about Jews or Judaism, because I fully support freedom of religion.

Speaking of simplistic, how is it that everytime someone criticizes Israel you automatically assume they are anti-Semitic. For all you know, Canaduh could be Jewish.

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Israel has a right to beg leave of the world to exist as soon as it is defined by fixed permanent borders. How can anyone agree to the undefined.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

Its possible to be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. I think you read too much into his post. He's just observed that everytime Israel commits yet another horrendous atrocity, the news ignores it and prints yet another story about the holocaust instead.

For example:

January 29, 2010 Google News Search
Results 1 – 10 of about 13,642 for holocaust
Results 1 – 10 of about 3,587 for goldstone
Results 1 – 10 of about 974 for rwanda genocide

Why does the news have 13,642 stories about a 60 year old event, yet far less about the Goldstone Report which is about recent Israeli atrocities? Even the Rwandan genocide doesn't get nearly as much attention as the Holocaust. Can you name another event as old as the holocaust which has more than 13,000 active google linked news stories?

If you followed the news - this week was the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz - Did you expect the media to ignore that?

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

EAOQuoting Goober
CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card".I had hoped that hate would not creep into this forum - But Canaduh I have the opinion you would be quite comfortable at an Aryan Nations meeting. Well would you
Its possible to be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. I think you read too much into his post. He's just observed that everytime Israel commits yet another horrendous atrocity, the news ignores it and prints yet another story about the holocaust instead.
EAO

Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

So much for rational discussion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

EAO

CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card"

How can you excuse (eao: weasel word) the above statement as anything but Anti Semitic -

eao: I just referenced a Jewish person with the same viewpoint as Canaduh. In fact this person wrote an entire book on the subject. So I think it is possible to hold an opinion that the holocaust is being used as cover for Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity and not be anti-Semitic.

And do not preach Rational discussion to me - I agree that both sides have committed War crimes - yet you in that one eyed look always blame Israel -

eao: Sorry I've never read a single statement written by you which condemns Israeli war crimes or crimes against humanity. I doubt I've read all your posts, so maybe I missed this. Perhaps you could list them again for my benefit or reference your post where you actually criticized Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. Tell you what, I'll list all the war crimes and crimes against humanity attributed to Palestinians in the Goldstone report.


1) Firing rockets and mortars at civilian targets

2) Torture, ill treatment and other abuses by Palestinian authorities against their political opponents.


Your turn....

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I ask questions yet you do not answer - Little difference between you and MHZ - eao: I thought your questions were off topic and leading, which is why I ignored them. I am not obligated to answer stupid off topic questions. The topic is "Israel -the Right to exist as a state". I've tried to stay on topic by referencing the original agreed conditions for UN recongition of Israel and then pointed out how Israel has failed to live up to those obligations and now commits war crimes and crimes against humanity in violation of international law and the UN Charter. But I admit that I also go off topic occasionally too.

I tried and tried to keep this rational yet the 2 of you keep on with the same old tripe

Also your posts are to long and all over the place - Perhaps you should look at what rational is -

And it is not excusing a Racist like Canaduh. eao: Another unsubstantiated allegation. You'll have to do better than his one statement about the holocaust, which I did not interpret as racist remark but a valid observation.

Christ on a crutch but you are so blinded by hatred of Jews and Israel that you cannot see - They are all guilty - some more so than others -

eao: this is another unsubstantiated allegation. You`ll have to substantiate your claim that I hate Jews and Israel first before you can make this statement legitimately. If you actually read my posts, you'd know that I only criticize Israel`s war crimes and crimes against humanity, not Israelis in general and certainly I`ve never posted anything derogatory about Jews. I have nothing against Jews or any other religion. I also have nothing against Israelis or any other nationality. But I am against people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity regardless of religion or nationality.

But to you and MHZ - it is always Israel -

Regardless i am off to bed as i start work quite early -

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

I would have expected the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz to get far less coverage than the 65th anniversary of D-Day, the end of WW II or even the second anniversary of Israel's ongoing Gaza blockade/crime against humanity. The holocaust gets more news coverage now than when it was happening.

I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.

Another clue is that most holocaust stories only mention the Jewish victims. Millions of other holocaust victims are seldom mentioned.

I think its hypocritical to pay so much attention to a historical atrocity while ignoring an ongoing one.

Quote: Originally Posted by seomul

Simple fact from history , you all can do a little research on who was behind King David Hotel bombing.
-- was wanted by the British for terrorism only to become later the prime minister.
In July 2006, --, including the past and future Prime Minister -- and former members of --, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the --. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated."

Quote: Originally Posted by seomul

Simple fact from history , you all can do a little research on who was behind King David Hotel bombing.
-- was wanted by the British for terrorism only to become later the prime minister.
In July 2006, --, including the past and future Prime Minister -- and former members of --, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the --. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated."

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

Undefined borders are easier to move.

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Both in the material world and the intellectual world. Their border is the surface of the sphere.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

EAO

CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card"

How can you excuse the above statement as anything but Anti Semitic -
And do not preach Rational discussion to me - I agree that both sides have committed War crimes - yet you in that one eyed look always blame Israel -

I ask questions yet you do not answer - Little difference between you and MHZ -

I tried and tried to keep this rational yet the 2 of you keep on with the same old tripe

Also your posts are to long and all over the place - Perhaps you should look at what rational is -

And it is not excusing a Racist like Canaduh.

Christ on a crutch but you are so blinded by hatred of Jews and Israel that you cannot see - They are all guilty - some more so than others -

But to you and MHZ - it is always Israel -

Regardless i am off to bed as i start work quite early -

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

Look how long it took Canada to treat its First Nation people equally.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

EAO

What I have stated time and again is that you continuously overlook any action taken by the Palestinians and in particular the Terrorist that are supported by a substantial number - Now you are the one that came right out the the Racist Closet in full bloom -

Say what you want but your own words condemn you. Your words - Twist and turn in the wind - try to avoid it but you have Anti-Semite tattooed all over your posts.

You hate Jews - You and some others that inhabit this forum also hate Jews - Deny all you want but I for one will not fall for that Goebbels strategy you use - A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth -


Your words -

I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.