Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

MHz

#31

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

I saw a mineral map of Hati yesterday, there seems to be a lot of valuable stuff including oil. I was thinking of the poverty these people have been kept in being especially cruel in light of those mineral riches.

I'm not sure why you would use the word especially? If Haiti just finished paying off France (1947) for a dept that was imposed via French Bankers and the Government of France when they revolted 200 years ago (for the loss of property, slaves) then they were all very valuable slaves or the 'illegal dept' came with very high interest rates. None of Frances friend were complaining what they did, if done to a Nation that could fight back there would have been war. US vs Britain is an example.
The oil wouldn't be developed at this time, there are enough wells in the world. It will be even more valuable down the road, say when their good friends from Venezuela start running dry. That means the land on the surface will have to sustain them, A little food and a quart of rum/ day for the unemployed. The ones needed for the little bit of work that needs to be done would get extra.

MHz

#32

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato

They proposed doing the same thing in Alberta's oilsands a very long time ago,thankfully it didnt get approval.

No kidding, get that material smoldering and it would only go out when it was all ash. lol

MHz

#33

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

As much as we've heard about capitalist efficiencies, we are always asking ourselves the same question because we fail to understand what efficiency means to a banker. Cheap power available to all is in our economic system culturally impossible. The same laws hold for medicine education and food.

The sad fact is the Bankers already think they have the world running as smoothly as it can ever get (other than that 75% population reduction they keep drooling over).
Consumer goods have an intentionally built-in life-span, if it is broken at that basic level no patches will ever heal the inefficenties

Kakato

#34

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

No kidding, get that material smoldering and it would only go out when it was all ash. lol

I dont think it would even get smouldering with the lack of oxygen,coal seams will burn for thousands of years though,theres a few around my place and their impossible to put out.

MHz

#35

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Dry peat-moss will do that also, drain a pit and if it started on fire it would all go up in smoke.
Isn't it odd that there were no waves created?

Kakato

#36

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

Dry peat-moss will do that also, drain a pit and if it started on fire it would all go up in smoke.
Isn't it odd that there were no waves created?

we had to turn any stockpiled coal after a week or it would spontaneously combust,same type of thing as a compost pile. It's oxidizing in the air and is why any outcrop in the mountain is pure white as it slowly burns and turns to ash,its also why outcrop coal is taken as the cheaper thermal product,the good met coal lies farther into the seam where theres less oxygen.

MHz

#37

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

So why couldn't a coal burning power plant use tarsand material as a substitute or at least blended with coal at a certain ratio?

Kakato

#38

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

So why couldn't a coal burning power plant use tarsand material as a substitute or at least blended with coal at a certain ratio?

Because the build them close to the deposits and it's cheaper.
Exshaw uses B.C. coal now to from when the price of fuel got real high,coal is cheap and very abundant as it's pretty well all over the place.
Coal also burns very hot and very slowly,even a coal burner in some guys shack would be more efficient and put out way more heat then a diesel burner would.
Dont try it in your woodstove,it will melt the steel.

ironsides

No Party Affiliation

#39

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

I saw a mineral map of Hati yesterday, there seems to be a lot of valuable stuff including oil. I was thinking of the poverty these people have been kept in being especially cruel in light of those mineral riches.

There are now at least three Canadian companies prospecting for gold and copper in Northeast Haiti and two of these companies have really expanded their operations within this past year. Why the rush to start mining in Haiti right now or to start prospecting in Haiti , right now.

--

MHz

#40

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

While making horse-shoes a coal-fire needs to be force-fed large amounts of air in order to get the iron red hot. Not sure how you build your stoves but fire-brick and elevating the coal off the floor would take care of any melting problems.

Kakato

#41

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

There are now at least three Canadian companies prospecting for gold and copper in Northeast Haiti and two of these companies have really expanded their operations within this past year. Why the rush to start mining in Haiti right now or to start prospecting in Haiti , right now.

--

Because prospecting budgets and money is usually set aside ten years before something is actually developed so it's not like they just decided to go in now,most mines dont become one untill 10 or 20 years of exploration is done.

ironsides

No Party Affiliation

#42

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Why would a supposedly dirt poor country sell or give away its mineral rights. It is not that there resources are hard to find, and they sure could use the rewards from these resources themselves. I can understand them leasing oil tracts because of the cost of doing it yourself, but mining is much cheaper to do.

Kakato

#43

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

Why would a supposedly dirt poor country sell or give away its mineral rights. It is not that there resources are hard to find, and they sure could use the rewards from these resources themselves. I can understand them leasing oil tracts because of the cost of doing it yourself, but mining is much cheaper to do.

The guys doing the prospecting rarely turn it into a mine,they travel all over the world doing this,if it looks good it go's up for sale,the propertys change hands many times before becoming a mine,i dont think haiti has many people who do this so it gets farmed out,they get royaltys on anything mined.

MHz

#44

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

Why would a supposedly dirt poor country sell or give away its mineral rights. It is not that there resources are hard to find, and they sure could use the rewards from these resources themselves. I can understand them leasing oil tracts because of the cost of doing it yourself, but mining is much cheaper to do.

It is usually part of the condition of loans from the IMF (or anybody with money to loan) where the money is used to help the people live easier lives. The banks don't place a value on the quality of life, their books show people only as an asset worth so much $$$.
The security they demand for any loan are the natural resourses, not to be held onto developed at a speed that was denied prior to the change in ownership. When it is developed the people get 3% of the net profits and the companies reap the 97% when those figures should be reversed. The way to develop it is to have open bidded contracts where the contractor recoops his investment plus 5%. Today it is investment plus 75% of everything that investment produces for the life of the product that was built. The People should have the profits belong to them after the original contract has been fulfilled by both parties.

darkbeaver

Republican

#45

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

There are now at least three Canadian companies prospecting for gold and copper in Northeast Haiti and two of these companies have really expanded their operations within this past year. Why the rush to start mining in Haiti right now or to start prospecting in Haiti , right now.

--

thanks for the link ironsides The price of gold is going to the moon so I guess if you got some you're going to be rich.

I pulled this a couple of paragraphs down
"UHmm. And I guess you've talked about the fact that these companies obviously, they look for what they call a "secure business climate." For presumably a low regulatory environment."

Us Canadians like cheap resources that are easy to steal from the natives. And we always crow about how good it is for them. We are soooo nice it makes me want to puke.

darkbeaver

Republican

#46

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

I'm not sure why you would use the word especially? If Haiti just finished paying off France (1947) for a dept that was imposed via French Bankers and the Government of France when they revolted 200 years ago (for the loss of property, slaves) then they were all very valuable slaves or the 'illegal dept' came with very high interest rates. None of Frances friend were complaining what they did, if done to a Nation that could fight back there would have been war. US vs Britain is an example.
The oil wouldn't be developed at this time, there are enough wells in the world. It will be even more valuable down the road, say when their good friends from Venezuela start running dry. That means the land on the surface will have to sustain them, A little food and a quart of rum/ day for the unemployed. The ones needed for the little bit of work that needs to be done would get extra.

The thing about the oil is controlling the supply. What's done is maximizing the social and economic impact of supply by strictly controlling the supply, distribution and developement. I wouldn't worry about running out of oil.

"That means the land on the surface will have to sustain them, A little food and a quart of rum/ day for the unemployed." That's why I used especially, because there has never been a need for the poverty in Hati (nor anywhere else) except by that same control mechanism I mentioned, it's always been their needs and not that of Hatians that have priority. There will be no benevolent social development in Hati for the same reason there has never been any. And it has absolutly nothing to do with the people who if left to their own designs could and would build a beautiful inspiring nation. We in the west believe we have been helping to correct life in the third world when nothing could be further from the truth.

darkbeaver

Republican

#47

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides

Why would a supposedly dirt poor country sell or give away its mineral rights. It is not that there resources are hard to find, and they sure could use the rewards from these resources themselves. I can understand them leasing oil tracts because of the cost of doing it yourself, but mining is much cheaper to do.

If you had a gun to your head you would and so would I. How big a gun is a carrier? Seriously ironsides every time one of those things moves the third world trembles.

MHz

#48

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

The bottom line will be their collective debt to the world after the rebuild is complete. If their is no debt and all land and resourse belong to the people again then the world did help, if the debt is bigger then that just means what little land that was left that was not controlled by the Bankers will be controlled by the Bankers. Developed or not the locals will see nothing but crumbs from theit own table. Who saves people from the rescuers?

petros

#49

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Foiler.

No doubt. Maybe Kreskin could add microwaving a wet chunk of basalt to his act?

ironsides

No Party Affiliation

#50

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Seems most countries are canceling Haiti's debt which should help a little. There debts have been canceled many times before though, and there lies the problem.

Example: ( What do you do with people who chose to live in a active caldera?)

ironsides

No Party Affiliation

#51

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

If you had a gun to your head you would and so would I. How big a gun is a carrier? Seriously ironsides every time one of those things moves the third world trembles.

They are big aren't they. Normally we do not keep a carrier in the Caribbean.

Haiti has nothing that the U.S. would want or need, just a large poor population that need caring for.

Risus

#52

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

Good thing they drill for this stuff, eh?

Well they certainly dropped the ball...

Kakato

#53

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

thanks for the link ironsides The price of gold is going to the moon so I guess if you got some you're going to be rich.

I pulled this a couple of paragraphs down
"UHmm. And I guess you've talked about the fact that these companies obviously, they look for what they call a "secure business climate." For presumably a low regulatory environment."

Us Canadians like cheap resources that are easy to steal from the natives. And we always crow about how good it is for them. We are soooo nice it makes me want to puke.

Bull****,it may be Canadian companies but thats because we have the expertise to prospect these claims,you seem to forget it's the investors who own these companies,not just Canadians,people who are willing to take a gamble as the govt's in places like haiti dont have the coin to do so.They in turn get mega royalties and jobs,something they cant seem to get rolling.

So i'll call total bs on this and you only have to look at who's putting up the money in Canada's Nunavut to stake these mines and it sure as hell isnt the natives,they actually welcome it so maybe get your facts straight.

Kakato

#54

Re: Hati relief envisaged 1 day before quake

Jan 22nd, 2010

The mines in Canada's north are all developed and staked by investors from all over the world,it's up to the Nunavut govt. to say what they have to do before they get a licence and it means hiring from the local communities which might have 100 very low paying jobs for every 5000 residents.Every single mine I have worked developing up there is Canadian owned but staked by mostly American investors and wouldnt happen without that money.
Rio Tinto owns Diavek and thats just one big mine,Agnico eagle owns meadowbank and allthough Canadian it's investors money that makes it happen.
Theres a reason any core samples HAVE to stay on site at least ten years,thats so investors dont get milked in another bre-x.It takes minimum ten years for a mine to even become a mine from the time the first hole is drilled so any cheap attempt to make this look like something it's not can be easily refutted by anyone who has done this kind of work.

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