We can't let our German friends push us around

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,412
1,668
113
Germany may be the largest EU state (population wise) with its largest economy, but that's no excuse for it to act like the boss and order people about (we fought a World War so we didn't have to take orders from the Germans).

Due to recent events, the British often tend to view the Germans (as well as the French) as the traditional enemy.

But for many years until the 20th Century, Germany (or Prussia), had been Britain's (or England's) ally - mainly against the French.

Since 1714, the British have had a German dynasty on the Throne - first the Hanoverians, such as George III and Victoria, and now the Windsors. The Windsors were originally the Saxe-Coburg and Gothas but, due to the fact Germany was Britain's enemy in World War I, the Royal Family changed it to Windsor in 1917. The Queen is head of the Windsor dynasty, but the German/Brit Andreas, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Saxony is the head of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. He is the great-great-great grandson of Queen Victoria, and is in the line of succession to the British Throne (an interesting succession it is, too. Norway's King Harald V is 63rd in line to the British Throne).

The Germans (or Prussians as they just were then) were allies of the British (or English as they just were then) in several wars against the French. The Duke of Marlborough (an ancestor of Winston Churchill) defeated the French at the Battle of Blenheim in 1704 during the War of Spanish Succession. Marlborough's ally was the Austrian Prince Eugene.

The Germans were Britain's allies in the Seven Years War against the French. And, of course, the Germans were Britain's allies in the Napoleonic Wars, again against the French.

Traditionally, Britain and Germany have been allies, and both have been enemies of the French (the two World Wars are rare exceptions to this rule).

But when it comes to the EU, the British and Germans have (peaceful) opposing views.

The Germans are enthusiastic of the EU becoming a federal nation, a United States of Europe.

The British aren't too keen on this, preferring to keep their independence.

We can't let our German friends push us around


13th September 2009
Daily Mail


The British tend to forget about the importance of Germany, our most significant European partner. There are, of course, memories of the world wars of the 20th Century.

Relatively few British people speak German; we like to enjoy Mediterranean holidays, so we have come to know the French, Italians and Spanish.

Yet Germany is a stable Northern democracy and a major trading partner. The sale of Opel and Vauxhall, which make up the the European branch of General Motors, this week demonstrated the significance of German bargaining power.



Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has to face a close election fight at the end of the month, wanted to save German jobs. The Opel and Vauxhall sale has now been made to Canadian car-parts manufacturer Magna International, which is backed by Russian Sberbank.

Magna has given an assurance that it will not close any of Opel's four German plants. In Britain, by contrast, Ministers are now urgently seeking talks with Magna to try to protect as many jobs as possible at the Vauxhall plants in Luton and Ellesmere Port.

The German elections may reflect shifts in European public opinion in favour of smaller parties. Chancellor Merkel's party, the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), is rather similar to the Tory Party; both are moderate, centrist parties. Until a few weeks ago, polls suggested the CDU, including its Bavarian partner the Christian Social Union (CSU), would win enough votes to form a coalition with the German equivalent of the Liberals, the Free Democratic party (FDP).

At present, a CDU and FDP coalition would receive 49 per cent of the vote. The other large party is the Social Democratic Party (SPD), roughly the equivalent of the Labour Party. The SPD has only 21 per cent in the polls, and 30 per cent of the votes would go to other parties. There is still a probability that Merkel and the FDP will win the election, but it looks less of a certainty.


The English and Prussians (and several other German states) were allies at the 1704 Battle of Blenheim, when the Duke of Marlborough (an ancestor of Winston Churchill) defeated the French. The English and Prussians (later the British and Germans) have traditionally been allies, such as during the War of Spanish Succession, the Seven Years War and the Napoleonic Wars (all against the French), with the exception of the two World Wars

In the European elections this year, there were similar trends in Britain: the Conservatives were ahead, but the smaller parties were thriving.

Historically, Britain and Germany have had a more significant relationship than many British - or German --people realise. Since 1714, we have had a German dynasty on the British throne. The House of Windsor is the successor to the House of Hanover.

What people do not realise is that Britain's German or Austrian alliances in the 18th Century were essential to the creation of the British Empire. Our Germanic links on the Continent allowed Britain to defeat France in colonial wars. One can see this record in wars that were decisive.

During the reign of Louis XIV, one of our greatest generals, the Duke of Marlborough, fought the famous Battle of Blenheim (1704) and defeated the French. His ally was Prince Eugene, who was born in Paris but had become an Austrian general leading an Austrian army.

In 1756, at the beginning of the Seven Years' War, Britain signed a treaty with Prussian emperor Frederick the Great. While Britain won a series of campaigns against the French in Canada, India and the West Indies, Frederick defeated the French in Europe. If the French had been free to move their troops to fight the British outside Europe, our empire might have been stillborn.

In 1815, another of our greatest generals, the Duke of Wellington, defeated Napoleon at the Battle of Waterloo, with the decisive aid of the Prussian general Prince Blucher, who was nicknamed 'Marshal Forward'.

Without these German alliances, the British might have lost Blenheim, lost the Seven Years' War and lost Waterloo. France would have gained the major European empire of the 18th and 19th Centuries, and the Americans might be talking French in Washington.

The British know more about their recent history than about the longer patterns of events that have created modern conditions. If one looks back over the centuries, British and German relations have been compatible until the 20th Century, in which the two countries fought two world wars.

The record before 1900, or since 1945, shows Britain and Germany have normally been able to avoid conflict.

It is now 20 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall led to the reunification of Germany. Documents that have just been released show how Margaret Thatcher and the French President, Francois Mitterrand reacted to those events.

Both of them started out opposing the reunification of Germany - though Mitterrand was the quicker to recover when it did happen. They should always have understood that reunification was bound to happen whenever the Soviet Union ceased to have the power to prevent it.

There is one issue on which Britain and Germany have a fundamental cultural disagreement; that is the European Union constitution. The difference has been exposed by the Lisbon Treaty.

Most Germans see the European Constitution as that of a bureaucratic state justified in terms of the philosophy of Georg Hegel, who believed the group, that is the state, was more important than the individual. The British, on the other hand, see Europe as a liberal democratic alliance, which can be described in terms of John Locke and America's Declaration of Independence.

Germany not only wants, but largely assumes that Europe must have, a federal constitution; the British oppose that, and in any referendum would vote against a federal European state with centralised power.

Germany has the advantage of the strongest economy in Europe, yet the EU faces an urgent need for reconstruction after the banking panic of 2008. There is so much work to do that Europe should avoid unnecessary quarrels: Germany is essential to recovery.

Yet one fact poisons Anglo-European relations. The British people have not been allowed a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Nor, of course, were the Germans.

Britain will not be bound by treaties to which the British have not given assent.

dailymail.co.uk
 
Last edited:

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
14
18
Germany remains a USA occupied country. The USA has not signed a formal peace agreement with Germany and Germany remains under the 1945 UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER That is because the USA loves freedom--give me a red all you dead heads
-So is Germany really in a position to push anyone around?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Germany is totally independent. It is up to you guys to keep them happy. Yes there back boys and girls.


A treaty between the (main) Allies and Germany was signed on 12 September 1990 just before the re-unification of Germany. This was essential in order to make Germany's new frontiers definitive. It was agreed between the four main Allies on the one hand and the two German states on the other, with the proviso that it wouldn't become fully effective unless ratified by the new, united Germany.
This treaty is regarded by Germans as equivalent to a peace treaty. A comprehensive treaty would raise all kinds of problems in respect of countries that were British and French colonies in WW2 but are now independent. Already in 1947 the Allies issued a solemn statement to the effect that they were no longer at war with Germany.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
14
18
Germany is totally independent. It is up to you guys to keep them happy. Yes there back boys and girls.


A treaty between the (main) Allies and Germany was signed on 12 September 1990 just before the re-unification of Germany. This was essential in order to make Germany's new frontiers definitive. It was agreed between the four main Allies on the one hand and the two German states on the other, with the proviso that it wouldn't become fully effective unless ratified by the new, united Germany.
This treaty is regarded by Germans as equivalent to a peace treaty. A comprehensive treaty would raise all kinds of problems in respect of countries that were British and French colonies in WW2 but are now independent. Already in 1947 the Allies issued a solemn statement to the effect that they were no longer at war with Germany.


More bull--US military bases and soldiers remain in Germany, and Japan--Germany remains occupied and there is no formal PEACE TREATY --like your excuse--GERMANY remains under UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER--THE war in IRAQ was over how many years ago, Afghanistan --we is out to get OSAMA--this is the crap you promote
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
No formal Peace Treaty? Too funny.

Germany surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY... then there was peace in Germany. Germany wanted war and they got it and got their butts kicked. Germany's UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER meant that the allies would stop kicking the crap out of Germany.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
More bull--US military bases and soldiers remain in Germany, and Japan--Germany remains occupied and there is no formal PEACE TREATY --like your excuse--GERMANY remains under UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER--THE war in IRAQ was over how many years ago, Afghanistan --we is out to get OSAMA--this is the crap you promote



AS YEAR 5770 APPROACHES….

This coming Friday evening, Jews worldwide will begin their 5770th year on this earth! Who would have believed this possible? If anyone had told Abraham that his people would be around this long he probably would have been astounded.
Imagine, they did this without beheading anyone on TV, without a single suicide bomber, without kidnapping and murdering school children, without slaughtering Olympic athletes, and without flying airplanes into skyscrapers. We lasted this long despite 400 years as slaves in Egypt, 40 years of wandering in the desert, the mighty Roman army who nailed us to ten thousand crosses; despite the best efforts of fervent Crusaders, the Spanish Inquisition, Hitler’s third Reich, Stalin’s gulags, Arab wars of annihilation and 100 years of hateful terrorism, hundreds of hate-filled UN resolutions.
How did Jews do it? We survived by concentrating our efforts on education, love of family, faith, hard work, helping one another and a passionate dedication to life no matter what evil befell us. We hung in there in hope the rest of the world would one day overcome it’s hatreds, jealousies, violence and join us in a life of cooperation and mutual respect.
We’re not there yet, but we’re still hopeful. And when so many of us enter our places of worship this weekend, this is what we’ll pray for with all the strength in our hearts...5770 and counting.


Shana Tovah
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
No formal Peace Treaty? Too funny.

Germany surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY... then there was peace in Germany. Germany wanted war and they got it and got their butts kicked. Germany's UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER meant that the allies would stop kicking the crap out of Germany.


What he said times 2.

And, actually, Blackleaf; 1945 is a long ways in the past. Just don't be too quick to accept "peace in our time", next time.

If someone had had some balls back then, Hitler could have been stopped pretty quickly. Read some history.

Sorry, guess I missed your point.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Regardless of what happened or did not happen during World War 2, Germany today is an important part of Europe, as such it has a lot of say in how Europe governs itself.

Britain by contrast is considered the odd man out. Britain did not adopt the Euro. It was hesitant to join the EEC in the first place, and EEC opponents were able to get the government to hold a referendum on the issue (I think the only referendum UK has ever held).

So Britain will never have the influence that Germany has within the EU.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Yepper, Sir Joe. The sun has finally set on the Empiah!!

People and countries have to stop thinking and living in the past, eh wot.

tosh tosh.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
Yepper, Sir Joe. The sun has finally set on the Empiah!!

People and countries have to stop thinking and living in the past, eh wot.

tosh tosh.

Britain is a declining influence in the world, insisting on keeping an incestuist and irrelevant monarchy and living in the past. There is no control over the socialists that largely run the government. They are inceasingly the odd man out in European affairs. The Eu is much like a federation of states anyway and commerece is so inter twined that it may as well be one country.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Perhaps Britain still remembers the glory days of the empire and does not want to associate with the countries it once vanquished in Asia and Africa (France, Netherlands etc.)

Irish republic is more European that Britain, I think they have adopted the Euro.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
"I thought the queen of England is from German stock"

With as much sick inbreeding that goes on in royalty, who knows whose daddy is.