Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruction

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

Hey C, Doesn't digging pits in front of tanks and heavy artillery and filling them with innocent civilians cross any lines for you?

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

At a casualty rate of 1 Israeli for every 1.000 Palestinians, you would think Hamas would learn to cease and desist. Which they would, of course, were they a sensible group that had the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart.

But they do not.

They are a bunch of lunatic fundamentalists. Their only reason for existence is the destruction of the Jewish state. Murder of innocents is their ONLY purpose.

Israel acts in the interests of her people. That is the difference.

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir

Honestly. Lately I have started to wonder if these people can really be so stupid. At the end of the "hostilities" you always hear Hamas declaring a victory.

Seriously, these people can only have the worst interests for the Palestinians at heart.

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

Hmmmm... I thought math guys understood inequalities.

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir

Sure do. Let me spell it out for you.

1 << 1000

Ergo, victory for Israel. So what is Hamas on about?

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

Another inequality for you.
(Compassion + restraint)>>Vengeance
--

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir

Yes, I agree completely. Ergo my original point, which you clearly don't understand.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Yep. It crosses a lot of lines with me.
The use of Human shields is a disgrace.
What a shame Hamas also engages in the same practise by hiding among the population.
You will notice the difference that I pointed out did not address the culpability of either side.
Try not to be so one-sided.
Now, try to imagine Israeli soldiers hiding behind Israeli civilians. Not in the cards, is it?
Which sharpens my point, if you will......

4.2.2 ISRAELI ALLEGATIONS ABOUT USE OF “HUMAN SHIELDS”
...Amnesty International, for its part, did not find evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian
groups violated the laws of war to the extent repeatedly alleged by Israel. In particular, it
found no evidence that Hamas or other fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield
military objectives from attacks. By contrast, Amnesty International did find that Israeli
forces on several occasions during Operation “Cast Lead” forced Palestinian civilians to serve
as “human shields”. In any event, international humanitarian law makes clear that use of
“human shields” by one party does not release the attacking party from its legal obligations
with respect to civilians.

Amnesty International delegates interviewed many Palestinians who complained about
Hamas’ conduct, and especially about Hamas’ repression and attacks against their
opponents, including killings, torture and arbitrary detentions,125 but did not receive any
accounts of Hamas fighters having used them as “human shields”.
In the cases investigated by Amnesty International of civilians killed in Israeli attacks, the
deaths could not be explained as resulting from the presence of fighters shielding among
civilians, as the Israel army generally contends. In all of the cases investigated by Amnesty
International of families killed when their homes were bombed from the air by Israeli forces,
for example, none of the houses struck was being used by armed groups for military
activities. Similarly, in the cases of precision missiles or tank shells which killed civilians in
their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty
International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or
other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack.

While the presence of Hamas and other fighters and weapons within civilian areas is not
contested, this in itself is not conclusive evidence of intent to use civilians as “human
shields”...

E. Forcing civilians to remain in an area for the specific purpose of sheltering that area
or forces in that area from attack

473. As discussed in more detail in other parts of the report, the Mission asked numerous
witnesses in Gaza why they had stayed in their homes in spite of the shelling, bombing and
328 Ibid.,
Israeli ground invasion. They stated that they had decided to stay put either because they had
experienced previous incursions and, based on past experience, did not think they would be at
risk as long as they remained indoors330 or because they had no safe place to go.331 In additional,
some witnesses stated that they had chosen to stay because they wished to watch over their
homes and property.332 The Mission did not find any evidence of civilians being forced to remain
in their houses by Palestinian armed groups...

...
475. The Mission is also aware of the public statement by Mr. Fathi Hammad, a Hamas
member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, on 29 February 2009, which is adduced as
evidence of Hamas’ use of human shields. Mr. Hammad reportedly stated that
… the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death seeking. For the
Palestinian people, death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people
on this land: the elderly excel, the mujahideen excel and the children excel. Accordingly,
[Hamas] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the mujahideen,
against the Zionist bombing machine.335
476. Although the Mission finds this statement morally repugnant, it does not consider it to
constitute evidence that Hamas forced Palestinian civilians to shield military objectives against
attack. The Government of Israel has not identified any such cases...

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

...Try not to be so one-sided.

(Hamas)... are a bunch of lunatic fundamentalists. Their only reason for existence is the destruction of the Jewish state. Murder of innocents is their ONLY purpose.

Israel acts in the interests of her people...

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

I really can't see how anyone could choose sides ethically. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Israeli administration, et al are simply out for blood and both seem willing to kill their adversary as well as anyone who inadvertently walks in between them or even stands too close.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

At a casualty rate of 1 Israeli for every 1.000 Palestinians, you would think Hamas would learn to cease and desist. Which they would, of course, were they a sensible group that had the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart.

But they do not.

They are a bunch of lunatic fundamentalists. Their only reason for existence is the destruction of the Jewish state. Murder of innocents is their ONLY purpose.

Israel acts in the interests of her people. That is the difference.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

I really can't see how anyone could choose sides ethically. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Israeli administration, et al are simply out for blood and both seem willing to kill their adversary as well as anyone who inadvertently walks in between them or even stands too close.

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

Right now he is speechless--

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

Another faulty conjecture.

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

Well Gibert --It is the Israelis that entered Lebanon and occupy a portion-> (since you mentioned Hezbolla)
!

AI is objective and doesn't take sides

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

You start with BS......no surprize there....read and learn.

--)

Israel recognizes the UN mandated border of Lebanon and occupies NO PART of that nation. Full stop.

Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream

Bull. I used to respect Amnesty International until in placed the right to abortion, without restriction, criminal penalty, or economic impediment.. under the aegis of 'reproductive' or 'women's' rights.. as a central plank in its mission.

Now i know they support the same radically relativistic, individualistic, 'humanistic' (read that: 'post religious') ethos that is plunging the West into despair and dissolution. I don't trust anything they say, now...

Support women who seek a safe, early medical termination of pregnancy in cases of rape, incest or when a woman's life or health is at grave risk. Urge governments to make medical care available to women who suffer complications from unsafe abortions; Oppose imprisonment and other criminal penalties for abortion against women and their providers.

Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream

...As for Israel and Palestine, i have simply given up on casting blame on either side. This has gone on for millenia, one provisional occupation after another, using any brutal means to sustain its rule, in a land that sheds all permanent claims.

Israel should take note that none has ever lasted, and its claim to divine providence and destiny is not new either. Its time will come, the worm will turn

Two British MPs compare Gaza Strip to Warsaw ghetto

By The Associated Press

LONDON - Two lawmakers who recently returned from Israel compared Palestinian living conditions in the Gaza Strip to those of Jews in the Warsaw ghetto during World War II. Advertisement

Legislator Oona King of the governing Labor Party said Thursday that the Gaza conditions are "the same in nature but not extent" as the notorious walled ghetto in Poland's capital, where Jews were corralled and oppressed by Adolf Hitler's Nazis...

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Gaza or Warsaw? UCSB professor says both are the same

University of California at Santa-Barbara professor probed for comparing Israeli policy to the Holocaust in controversial email

Ryan Simmons

A Jewish sociology professor at the University of California at Santa Barbara (UCSB) is being investigated for academic misconduct after he sent an e-mail message to 80 students comparing Israel’s offensive in Gaza to the Holocaust...

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Vatican cardinal calls Gaza "big concentration camp"

ROME (Reuters) - Pope Benedict's point man for justice and peace issues on Wednesday issued the Vatican's toughest criticism of Israel since the latest Mideast crisis began, calling Gaza a "big concentration camp."
Cardinal Renato Martino, president of the Vatican's Council for Justice and Peace, made his comments in an interview in the Italian online newspaper Il Sussidiario.net.

"Defenceless populations are always the ones who pay. Look at the conditions in Gaza: more and more, it resembles a big concentration camp," Martino, whose informal title is Vatican "justice minister," was quoted as saying...

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

The Sheba Farms, a small tract of land in the north of Israel, is Lebanese territory, according to an expert UN cartographer, Israel Radio reported Wednesday, quoting an unnamed official in Jerusalem.

colby- ripe old cheese

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

The Sheba Farms, a small tract of land in the north of Israel, is Lebanese territory, according to an expert UN cartographer, Israel Radio reported Wednesday, quoting an unnamed official in Jerusalem.

colby- ripe old cheese