Demjanjuk and Sobibor

Demjanjuk and Sobibor

einmensch

#1May 18th, 2009

Demjanjuk’s trial began promptly on the 16 February 1987-in Israel

At the trial a number of survivors from the Treblinka death camp testified against John Demjanjuk, these included Pinhas Epstein, Eliahu Rosenberg, Yossef Czarny and Gustav Boraks. All the witnesses stated that the man who was Ivan the Terrible, at Treblinka now stood before them, on trial for his life, but now forty-five years after those dark and terrible days in Treblinka, could they be totally sure?
Convicted on lies--April 25, 1988: Demjanjuk sentenced to death after being found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

In light of evidence submitted that Ivan the Terrible at Treblinka, was another Ukrainian guard called Ivan Marchenko, his appeal was successful and his conviction overturned by the highest court in Israel during 1993 and he was allowed to return to the United States of America after 5 years in an Israeli prison.
I guess the Holocaust survivors made a mistake

The main witness from Sobitor is also a liar--He, Thomas Toivi Blatt, stated that a Wagner shot a ten year old boy 9 times reloaded his gun and shot the boy a tenth time and then the boy fell down--at about 3 minutes into clip

YouTube - Sobibr - Gustav Wagner

This man's testimony has already sent a man to prison for life.
At Sobibor they tried to dig an escape tunnel. They could only dig down 5 feet because past that they said they were afraid of hitting water.
One problem the story tellers forgot about: the burial pits are described as 23 feet deep.

--

More liesToivi?

Perhaps I need help understanding!

At Sobibor they tried to dig an escape tunnel. They could only dig down 5 feet because they said there was a danger of striking water past that. One problem the storytellers forgot about: the burial pits are described as 23 feet deep.

CDNBear

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

Demjanjuk’s trial began promptly on the 16 February 1987-in Israel
At the trial a number of survivors from the Treblinka death camp testified against John Demjanjuk, these included Pinhas Epstein, Eliahu Rosenberg, Yossef Czarny and Gustav Boraks. All the witnesses stated that the man who was Ivan the Terrible, at Treblinka now stood before them, on trial for his life, but now forty-five years after those dark and terrible days in Treblinka, could they be totally sure?
Convicted on lies--April 25, 1988: Demjanjuk sentenced to death after being found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
In light of evidence submitted that Ivan the Terrible at Treblinka, was another Ukrainian guard called Ivan Marchenko, his appeal was successful and his conviction overturned by the highest court in Israel during 1993 and he was allowed to return to the United States of America after 5 years in an Israeli prison.
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

And rightly so, after evidence provided reasonable doubt, this should have ended there and then.

Quote:

I guess the Holocaust survivors made a mistake

As is bound to happen with time.

Quote:

This man's testimony has already sent a man to prison for life. At Sobibor they tried to dig an escape tunnel. They could only dig down 5 feet because past that they said they were afraid of hitting water. One problem the story tellers forgot about: the burial pits are described as 23 feet deep.

Do you have a context of when each event was determined.

I mean if they had begun a tunnel, but feared hitting water, before they witnessed the pits being dug. Your assertion is erroneous. If they saw the pits being dug prior to their attempt, I would have to support you in your conclusion. That's objectivity. You should try it some time...

Quote:

Perhaps I need help understanding!

That would be an understatement.

Colpy

Conservative

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

Demjanjuk’s trial began promptly on the 16 February 1987-in Israel
At the trial a number of survivors from the Treblinka death camp testified against John Demjanjuk, these included Pinhas Epstein, Eliahu Rosenberg, Yossef Czarny and Gustav Boraks. All the witnesses stated that the man who was Ivan the Terrible, at Treblinka now stood before them, on trial for his life, but now forty-five years after those dark and terrible days in Treblinka, could they be totally sure?
Convicted on lies--April 25, 1988: Demjanjuk sentenced to death after being found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
In light of evidence submitted that Ivan the Terrible at Treblinka, was another Ukrainian guard called Ivan Marchenko, his appeal was successful and his conviction overturned by the highest court in Israel during 1993 and he was allowed to return to the United States of America after 5 years in an Israeli prison.
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

You need help, all right, but I expect understanding is beyond you.

But for the others here, I'll clarify the situation of Sobibor: First of all, the camp was huge, built on a slope, so that the lower portion was almost in a marsh (as shown in the idiot's video maps above) and the upper camp was on a continuous rise........so tunnelers in the lower camp might worry about water, while grave pits are dug 23 feet deep further up the slope......

Secondly, as for the burials.........who in hell said they were all buried INSIDE the wire?????????? Most were not. As well, they soon realized they had not the room, and opened up the burials pits to burn the remains and add more bodies.....

Here is a describtion of his first view of Sobibor, written by Franz Strangl.....later commandant of the camp, so he should know:

Quote:

As one arrived, one first reached Belzec railway station, on the left side of the road. It was a one-story building...The smell...Oh God, the smell. It was everywhere. Wirth wasn't in his office. I remember they took me to him....He was standing on a hill, next to the pits....the pits.....full.....they were full. I can't tell you, not hundreds, thousands, thousands of corpses.....Oh God. That's where Wirth told me----he said that was what Sobibor was for. and he was putting me officially in charge.

as told to journalist Gitta Sereny, and quoted in Saul Friedlander's book The Years of Extermination, p. 357

Friedlander is both a survivor and a historian. The book is the definitive work on the Holocaust in two thick volumes..........the latter at 663 pages......the Bibliography cover 52 pages of listed evidence documents.......

I'd tell Einsmench to read it, but I'm afraid he'd confuse it with erotica.

einmensch

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

YouTube - Yet another Holocaust Hoax Misha Defonseca

Your reality, Colpy?

einmensch

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

YouTube - Holocaust Industry amp DONAHUEs Soap Opera 1994 Part 1

These are your witnesses Colpy? Perhaps you can present a sane one rather than quack?

CDNBear

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

YouTube - Yet another Holocaust Hoax Misha Defonseca

Your reality, Colpy?

I have to admit ein, there is an industry, and it is full of crooks.

But that in no way negates the reality of documented history. Your myopic views of history and groups of people are bigoted and narrow minded. This only further proves that statement to be true.

Colpy

Conservative

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

YouTube - Holocaust Industry amp DONAHUEs Soap Opera 1994 Part 1

These are your witnesses Colpy? Perhaps you can present a sane one rather than quack?

I just DID, he is called Saul Friedlander.

You failed to address him, didn't you?

There are quacks on both sides of this debate: The difference is the Deniers are ALL quacks, while those of us on this side have to deal with a small minority of quacks. Good Lord, this woman admits she is nuts within 15 seconds of the start of her rant!

Colpy

Conservative

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch

These are your witnesses Colpy? Perhaps you can present a sane one rather than quack?

For that matter, you haven't dealt with this either:

Franz Strangl.....later commandant of the camp, so he should know:

Quote:

As one arrived, one first reached Belzec railway station, on the left side of the road. It was a one-story building...The smell...Oh God, the smell. It was everywhere. Wirth wasn't in his office. I remember they took me to him....He was standing on a hill, next to the pits....the pits.....full.....they were full. I can't tell you, not hundreds, thousands, thousands of corpses.....Oh God. That's where Wirth told me----he said that was what Sobibor was for. and he was putting me officially in charge.

L Gilbert

No Party Affiliation

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

lol Holocaust deniers have something in common with flat-earthers, creationists, etc. - it does not matter how much evidence they are shown contrary to what they have faith in, they will forever remain irrationally adamant that they know the truth.

YukonJack

Conservative

#10

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

It will be glorious day, when all the accused Nazis will be gone.

Along with the survivors of the Holocaust, who may or may not have impeccable memory.

Meantime, how about forget and forgive? Sixty Plus years of persecution of innocent people like John Demjanjuk NOT ENOUGH????

Probably not. Descendants of one group could and probably will still persecute the descendents of the other gruop. Just for revenge.

einmensch

#11

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

YouTube - CO 2 and Zyklon-B - part 3 of 6

YouTube - Cremation vs holocaust - Part 2 of 3

Are these lies?

Colpy

Conservative

#12

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Yes, they are deceptive.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us WHO this ****ing Nazi scumball is, so we can debunk him.........

This means nothing, and you know it. You can not rationally ignore tons of evidence documents in favour of a bunch of straw men erected by a psycho...

Is that you talking???

WHO is it??????

Colpy

Conservative

#13

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

In a quick 10 minute search I have found no reference to the engine type of the Saurer vans.....they may have been diesel, or gasoline....I did find one reference that said the vans did not work well in rainy weather.....which would indicate they were using alternate fuels.....exactly as your Nazi You-Tube Fuhrer suggests they should have (Oh I loved that one!)........Friedlander speaks of the vans in several places.....including documents about their movements, utility, and repairs to the cargo area....but he does not specify engine type.

darkbeaver

Republican

#14

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

lol Holocaust deniers have something in common with flat-earthers, creationists, etc. - it does not matter how much evidence they are shown contrary to what they have faith in, they will forever remain irrationally adamant that they know the truth.

You can tell them a billion times it aint a duck lester but as long as the duck keeps quacking, it's a duck.

Colpy

Conservative

#15

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

WHERE DID THE JEWS GO???

WHERE DID THEY GO??????????????

Who are these guys?

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Dec 16th, 2009 at 09:20 PM..

darkbeaver

Republican

#16

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

I have to admit ein, there is an industry, and it is full of crooks.

But that in no way negates the reality of documented history. Your myopic views of history and groups of people are bigoted and narrow minded. This only further proves that statement to be true.

History is written by the victors.

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Dec 16th, 2009 at 09:14 PM..

darkbeaver

Republican

#17

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

WHERE DID THE JEWS GO you moron???

WHERE DID THEY GO??????????????

Who are these guys?

Britain Canada South Africa Austrailia USA and Palestine

CDNBear

#18

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

History is written by the victors,Mr Narrow.

That's why I don't use Op/Ed pieces to formulate my opinions, like you. Instead I use evidence and fact as my basis of thought. Hence our polar opposite views of the world.

darkbeaver

Republican

#19

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

I just DID, he is called Saul Friedlander.

You failed to address him, didn't you?

There are quacks on both sides of this debate: The difference is the Deniers are ALL quacks, while those of us on this side have to deal with a small minority of quacks. Good Lord, this woman admits she is nuts within 15 seconds of the start of her rant!

How many sides do you have Colpy?

darkbeaver

Republican

#20

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

That's why I don't use Op/Ed pieces to formulate my opinions, like you. Instead I use evidence and fact as my basis of thought. Hence our polar opposite views of the world.

Your sources are ad hoc fabrications. You formulate nothing, it's canned ham. I have a view you have delusions.

CDNBear

#21

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Your sources are ad hoc fabrications. You formulate nothing, it's canned ham. I have a view you have delusions.

But of course. That's why you have yet to punch even a pin hole in the documented facts I have posted, while I have dismantled, disemboweled and dismembered every single Op/Ed piece that was based on falsehoods, you have ever posted here.

So what say you? Care to actually provide some proof to debunk, refute or otherwise attempt to prove wrong anyone of my threads? Posts?

I've been waiting for a couple years now, to see something other then just insults, immature name calling and childish babbling from you. Something, anything, other then, would be a lovely sign of life from you.

darkbeaver

Republican

#22

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

But of course. That's why you have yet to punch even a pin hole in the documented facts I have posted, while I have dismantled, disemboweled and dismembered every single Op/Ed piece that was based on falsehoods, you have ever posted here.

So what say you? Care to actually provide some proof to debunk, refute or otherwise attempt to prove wrong anyone of my threads? Posts?

I've been waiting for a couple years now, to see something other then just insults, immature name calling and childish babbling from you. Something, anything, other then, would be a lovely sign of life from you.

You just imagine you did all that bear. In reality none of that happened. That's what delusion means. Are you still allowed to drive?

CDNBear

#23

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

You just imagine you did all that bear. In reality none of that happened. That's what delusion means. Are you still allowed to drive?

Of course, no evidentiary proof, just more idiot and childish behavior.

Have you ever been able to pass the test to acquire a license DB?

I remember my test requiring the ability to read and write, with knowledge of laws and policy.

That would almost certainly exclude you from the ability to do so.

darkbeaver

Republican

#24

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Go away, you're ruining the picnic.

CDNBear

#25

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Go away, you're ruining the picnic.

Awww, did I ruffle the widdle Beaver's fur?

darkbeaver

Republican

#26

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Of course, no evidentiary proof.

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Dec 16th, 2009 at 09:17 PM..

CDNBear

#27

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Of course, no evidentiary proof.

Isn't that what you wanted?

That's your typical MO. Hell, it's your only MO, with nothing but opinion to back up your assertions and delusions.

I am glad you were able to use something I wrote. I hope you understand the big words like "of" and "no". The others must be well beyond your abilities of comprehension. Like research and critical thought.

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Dec 16th, 2009 at 09:18 PM..

darkbeaver

Republican

#28

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Toilet paper, everything you write can be used as virtual toilet paper.

CDNBear

#29

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Toilet paper, everything you write can be used as virtual toilet paper.

Got any proof?

I thought not...

darkbeaver

Republican

#30

Re: Demjanjuk and Sobibor

May 18th, 2009

I have reams of virtual proof.

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