Council Member
Posts: 1,679 
May 30th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Two years later, details of the initial incident which started the 2006 Israel lebanon war are now more or less known.
Lebanon/Israel 2006
This initial incident which started the 2006 Israel/Lebanon war was legal. Technically Israel and Lebanon have been at war since Israel declared independance. The border is not agreed upon and each side can legally attack the other side's military targets. Civilian are not to be deliberately targetted.
No civilians were seriously hurt as far as I can tell by Hezbollah's initial diversionary attack. The subsequent Hezbollah raid and the Israeli counter attack were both legal acts of war. But Israel's later attacks against Lebanese civilian targets were war crimes. So were Hezbollahs rocket attacks on Israeli civilian targets in response.
Israel and Lebanon have mutually agreed upon rules of miltary conduct:
This was a minor border skirmish which Israel escalated.
Updates:
Two years later, details of the initial incident which started the 2006 Israel lebanon war are now more or less known.
Lebanon/Israel 2006
Quote:
Zar'it-Shtula incident
Quote:
The Zar'it-Shtula incident was a cross-border attack committed by Lebanon-based Hezbollah special forces on an Israeli military patrol on 12 July 2006 on Israeli territory. The operation was originally named "Freedom for Samir Al-Quntar and his brothers" by Hezbollah, but it was shortened to "Operation Truthful Promise".[1] Using rockets fired on several Israeli towns as a diversion, Hezbollah militants crossed from Lebanon into Israel [2] and ambushed two Israeli Army vehicles, killing three Israeli soldiers and capturing two. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers. Israel refused and launched a large-scale military campaign across Lebanon in response to the Hezbollah incursion. This marked the start of the 2006 Lebanon War.
In the months leading up to the attack, Lt. Col. Ishai Efroni reported seeing increased activity across the fenceline, including more brazen Hezbollah patrols. He had repeatedly seen burden-laden donkeys, which he had believed were being led by innocent farmers, but after the incident suspected were laden with arms and equipment. After a rocket attack on May 28, the colonel, who at 41 had spent much of his career along the northern border, "got the feeling something had changed."[3]
Hezbollah had carved a hollow from the underbrush, just above the Israeli border patrol track. The "camp was stocked with food, water, radios, rifles, antitank missiles and diagrams detailing the insignia and size of Israeli military units."[3]
At around 9:00 a.m. local time (06:00 UTC), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a diversionary Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and border villages, including Zar'it and Shlomi.[4][5][6][7][8][9]
A ground contingent of Hezbollah fighters crossed the border into Israeli territory and attacked two Israeli armoured Humvees patrolling on the Israeli side of the Israel-Lebanon border between the villages of Zar'it and Shtula (Shetula). The attackers took advantage of a "dead zone" in the border fence not visible from any of the IDF lookout posts and may have used a wheeled ladder to climb the fence.[4] After hiding in a wadi on the Israeli side of the fence they attacked with a combination of pre-positioned explosives and anti-tank missiles. The team knocked out the trailing Humvee, killing three soldiers inside, and captured two soldiers from the first vehicle.[3] "Another soldier was seriously wounded, another lightly wounded and a third suffered a shrapnel scratch." The entire incident took no more than 10 minutes.[4]
A total of seven army posts "reported taking fire at the same time, coordinated attacks that knocked out surveillance cameras." The attack had knocked out command communications with the convoy. Twenty minutes passed until Staff Sgts. Ehud Goldwasser, 31, and Eldad Regev, 26, were confirmed to be missing from the first vehicle, while the gunmen "fled through olive orchards to the Lebanese border village of Aita al-Shaab."[3]
Lt. Col. Ishai Efroni, deputy commander of the Baram Brigade, sent a Merkava Mark II tank, an armored personnel carrier and a helicopter in pursuit.[3] Crossing into Lebanon,[10] they headed down a dirt track lined with Lebanese border defenses.[3] When it "unexpectedly veered onto the road near a known Hezbollah post" the resulting blast was "enormous, killing the four soldiers inside instantly."[3][11] A fifth soldier died during an ensuing firefight while attempting to recover their bodies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zar'it-Shtula_incident
This initial incident which started the 2006 Israel/Lebanon war was legal. Technically Israel and Lebanon have been at war since Israel declared independance. The border is not agreed upon and each side can legally attack the other side's military targets. Civilian are not to be deliberately targetted.
No civilians were seriously hurt as far as I can tell by Hezbollah's initial diversionary attack. The subsequent Hezbollah raid and the Israeli counter attack were both legal acts of war. But Israel's later attacks against Lebanese civilian targets were war crimes. So were Hezbollahs rocket attacks on Israeli civilian targets in response.
Israel and Lebanon have mutually agreed upon rules of miltary conduct:
Quote:
Read the text. Both sides can engage military targets as long as it doesn't involve civilians. Hezbollah's diversionary attack probably did not violate the above agreement. Issrael would have to priove that Hezbollah deliberately attacked civilians. If that's true it wasn't very effective. No one was killed. BUt Israel claims civilians were hurt, although I can find no information about their injuries. But the raid which resulted in Israeli military casualties and prisoners was completely within the terms of the April Understanding.
The Israeli-Lebanese Ceasefire Understanding (also known as The Grapes of Wrath Understandings and the April Understanding) was an informal written agreement between Israel and Hezbollah, reached through the diplomatic efforts of the US, which ended the 1996 military conflict between the two sides. The agreement was announced at 18:00 on April 26, 1996.
Under the terms of the agreement, both sides agreed to end cross-border attacks on civilian targets, as well refrain from using civilian villages to launch attacks. The Monitoring Committee for the Implementation of the Grapes of Wrath Understandings was set up, composed of representatives from the US, France, Syria, Israel and Lebanon. The committee convenes to monitor and discuss infringements of the understandings by the two sides.
The full text of the agreement and adjoining letter from US secretary of state Warren Christopher is as follows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli..._Understanding
Under the terms of the agreement, both sides agreed to end cross-border attacks on civilian targets, as well refrain from using civilian villages to launch attacks. The Monitoring Committee for the Implementation of the Grapes of Wrath Understandings was set up, composed of representatives from the US, France, Syria, Israel and Lebanon. The committee convenes to monitor and discuss infringements of the understandings by the two sides.
The full text of the agreement and adjoining letter from US secretary of state Warren Christopher is as follows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli..._Understanding
This was a minor border skirmish which Israel escalated.
Updates:
Quote:
04/03/2008
UN Chief: Israel says Hezbollah has 30,000 rockets in S. Lebanon
By The Associated Press
Israel says Hezbollah is rearming and has an arsenal including 10,000 long-range rockets and 20,000 short-range rockets in southern Lebanon, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon told the Security Council in a new report Tuesday.
While Ban's report did not confirm Israel's claim, the UN chief reiterated his concern about Hezbollah's public statements and persistent reports pointing to breaches of a UN arms embargo, which bans weapons transfers to the militant Shiite Islamic militia.
Ban also expressed concern at the threats of open war against Israel by Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Nasrallah accused Israel of trying to start a new war by assassinating a top Hezbollah commander and warned it would be a battle Israel would lose.
Israel has denied involvement in the February 12 car bombing in Damascus, Syria that killed Imad Mughniyeh...
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages...ver=172.20.5.5
UN Chief: Israel says Hezbollah has 30,000 rockets in S. Lebanon
By The Associated Press
Israel says Hezbollah is rearming and has an arsenal including 10,000 long-range rockets and 20,000 short-range rockets in southern Lebanon, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon told the Security Council in a new report Tuesday.
While Ban's report did not confirm Israel's claim, the UN chief reiterated his concern about Hezbollah's public statements and persistent reports pointing to breaches of a UN arms embargo, which bans weapons transfers to the militant Shiite Islamic militia.
Ban also expressed concern at the threats of open war against Israel by Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Nasrallah accused Israel of trying to start a new war by assassinating a top Hezbollah commander and warned it would be a battle Israel would lose.
Israel has denied involvement in the February 12 car bombing in Damascus, Syria that killed Imad Mughniyeh...
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages...ver=172.20.5.5
Quote:
Israel still hasn't pulled out of Southern Lebanon as per UNSC Resolution 1701:
UN official discusses latest situation in southern Lebanon with officials in Beirut
28 February 2007 – A senior United Nations official today discussed with Lebanese officials full implementation of the Security Council resolution that ended last summer’s war between Israel and Hizbollah, following similar talks earlier this week with Israeli authorities.
“We discussed many issues from the question of prisoners, Israeli prisoners in Lebanon, Lebanese prisoners in Israel – we would like to see more progress on that,” Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s Special Advisor on the situation in the Middle East Michael Williams told reporters after meeting with officials in Beirut, the Lebanese capital, in preparation for Mr. Ban’s next report to the Council on the situation.
“We also discussed the issue of Israeli overflights which are a violation of Lebanese sovereignty and occur on a regular and indeed a daily basis. We discussed the issue of munitions in the south, both landmines and the far more difficult issue of cluster bombs.”
Mr. Williams noted that there had been some progress on landmines with Israel providing military maps that have helped with their destruction, but the issue of the far more deadly cluster bombs used by Israel last summer has been far more difficult. UN officials have frequently cited the dangers to civilians in their villages and fields from unexploded cluster bombs.
Last month, a UN Environment Programme (UNEP) report stressed the importance of rapidly removing them, especially in southern Lebanon where large areas of economically important agricultural land have become “out of bounds” for farmers, noting that de-mining could take up to 15 months.
Council resolution 1701 adopted in August mandated the complete withdrawal of Israeli troops from southern Lebanon together with Lebanese army deployment in the area...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...8-unnews01.htm
28 February 2007 – A senior United Nations official today discussed with Lebanese officials full implementation of the Security Council resolution that ended last summer’s war between Israel and Hizbollah, following similar talks earlier this week with Israeli authorities.
“We discussed many issues from the question of prisoners, Israeli prisoners in Lebanon, Lebanese prisoners in Israel – we would like to see more progress on that,” Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s Special Advisor on the situation in the Middle East Michael Williams told reporters after meeting with officials in Beirut, the Lebanese capital, in preparation for Mr. Ban’s next report to the Council on the situation.
“We also discussed the issue of Israeli overflights which are a violation of Lebanese sovereignty and occur on a regular and indeed a daily basis. We discussed the issue of munitions in the south, both landmines and the far more difficult issue of cluster bombs.”
Mr. Williams noted that there had been some progress on landmines with Israel providing military maps that have helped with their destruction, but the issue of the far more deadly cluster bombs used by Israel last summer has been far more difficult. UN officials have frequently cited the dangers to civilians in their villages and fields from unexploded cluster bombs.
Last month, a UN Environment Programme (UNEP) report stressed the importance of rapidly removing them, especially in southern Lebanon where large areas of economically important agricultural land have become “out of bounds” for farmers, noting that de-mining could take up to 15 months.
Council resolution 1701 adopted in August mandated the complete withdrawal of Israeli troops from southern Lebanon together with Lebanese army deployment in the area...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...8-unnews01.htm
Quote:
The United Nations has proposed that UNIFIL troops take over security in the northern half of the border village of Ghajar, so that IDF forces can withdraw behind the Israel side of the international border. Israel has rejected this proposal and says any future consideration of the matter requires that the Lebanese government agree to it in writing.
The new plan was presented to Israel during a number of meetings between UNIFIL officials and senior Israeli figures, including Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, who met last month with the commander of the UN forces in southern Lebanon, Major General Claudio Graziano.
According to the UN plan, UNIFIL will assume control and full responsibility over security in the northern part of the village. It will also provide all necessary services to the residents there.
During his meeting with Ashkenazi, Graziano noted that details of the proposal have also been given to the Lebanese government and its armed forces.
In its official response, Israel noted that the issue is not relevant at this stage, especially because Lebanon rejected a similar deal a year ago. In March 2007, Israel's security-political cabinet authorized an agreement under which the Israel Defense Forces would withdraw from the northern section of Ghajar; its positions would be taken over by UNIFIL and the Lebanese Army, which would provide security.
According to Israel's proposal, Israel would continue to provide services to the village's civilian population.
The Lebanese government rescinded the agreement and did not implement it, in part because of the political crisis in the country.
Senior officials in Israel have since required as a precondition that any future discussion on the matter be accompanied by a signed, official agreement by the Lebanese government.
Israeli officials are frustrated by the failures in implementing Security Council Resolution 1701 that ended the Second Lebanon War; they are specifically unhappy about the conduct of Hezbollah. Senior political sources in Jerusalem noted that "there is no intention to discuss the Ghajar issue as long as issues that trouble Israel are not being dealt with." ...
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/969663.html
The new plan was presented to Israel during a number of meetings between UNIFIL officials and senior Israeli figures, including Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, who met last month with the commander of the UN forces in southern Lebanon, Major General Claudio Graziano.
According to the UN plan, UNIFIL will assume control and full responsibility over security in the northern part of the village. It will also provide all necessary services to the residents there.
During his meeting with Ashkenazi, Graziano noted that details of the proposal have also been given to the Lebanese government and its armed forces.
In its official response, Israel noted that the issue is not relevant at this stage, especially because Lebanon rejected a similar deal a year ago. In March 2007, Israel's security-political cabinet authorized an agreement under which the Israel Defense Forces would withdraw from the northern section of Ghajar; its positions would be taken over by UNIFIL and the Lebanese Army, which would provide security.
According to Israel's proposal, Israel would continue to provide services to the village's civilian population.
The Lebanese government rescinded the agreement and did not implement it, in part because of the political crisis in the country.
Senior officials in Israel have since required as a precondition that any future discussion on the matter be accompanied by a signed, official agreement by the Lebanese government.
Israeli officials are frustrated by the failures in implementing Security Council Resolution 1701 that ended the Second Lebanon War; they are specifically unhappy about the conduct of Hezbollah. Senior political sources in Jerusalem noted that "there is no intention to discuss the Ghajar issue as long as issues that trouble Israel are not being dealt with." ...
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/969663.html
House Member
Posts: 2,507
Location: SW Ontario
Location: SW Ontario
May 30th, 2008, 07:50 PM
Pesky little details.
Quoting earth_as_one
Only one problem: it wasn't Lebanon that attacked Israel that day.
This initial incident which started the 2006 Israel/Lebanon war was legal. Technically Israel and Lebanon have been at war since Israel declared independance.
Pesky little details.
House Member
Posts: 3,401
Location: USA
Location: USA
May 30th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Quoting earth_as_one
And we all know that Hezbollah never attacks Israeli civillians.
This initial incident which started the 2006 Israel/Lebanon war was legal. Technically Israel and Lebanon have been at war since Israel declared independance. The border is not agreed upon and each side can legally attack the other side's military targets. Civilian are not to be deliberately targetted.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 6,283
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
May 30th, 2008, 08:07 PM
One is as bad as the other. They need a good cage match.
Woof!
Quoting EagleSmack
...and we all know Israeli bullets and bombs are selective about their targets.
And we all know that Hezbollah never attacks Israeli civillians.
One is as bad as the other. They need a good cage match.
Woof!
Council Member
Posts: 1,679
May 31st, 2008, 12:13 AM
The April Agreement was between Israel and their adversaries in Lebanon, including Hezbollah. The April Agreement kept civilians mostly out of the fighting for years.
The Lebanese government does not control Hezbollah nor is it responsible for Hezbollah's actions. Hezbollah formed in the 1980's as a response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Hezbollah successfully drove Israeli forces south and remains at war with Israel. Since the borders between Israel and Lebanon are not agreed upon, Hezbollah can continue to resist Israel until Israel has defined borders with Lebanon. In response, Israel has a right to defend itself from Hezbollah. They can hit Hezbollah targets but not deliberately target Lebanese civilians.
The Timeline shows Israel deliberately bombed civilian targets first. Once one side crosses that line, its reasonable to expect the other side will respond in kind.
Timeline:
Seems to me Hezbollah showed remarkable restraint. They tolerated nearly a day of deliberate attacks on Lebanese civilian targets before they declared "open war".
During the course of this war Israel deliberately targetted civilians and civilian targets:
The April Agreement was between Israel and their adversaries in Lebanon, including Hezbollah. The April Agreement kept civilians mostly out of the fighting for years.
The Lebanese government does not control Hezbollah nor is it responsible for Hezbollah's actions. Hezbollah formed in the 1980's as a response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Hezbollah successfully drove Israeli forces south and remains at war with Israel. Since the borders between Israel and Lebanon are not agreed upon, Hezbollah can continue to resist Israel until Israel has defined borders with Lebanon. In response, Israel has a right to defend itself from Hezbollah. They can hit Hezbollah targets but not deliberately target Lebanese civilians.
The Timeline shows Israel deliberately bombed civilian targets first. Once one side crosses that line, its reasonable to expect the other side will respond in kind.
Timeline:
Quote:
and that's how civilians became targets.
WEDNESDAY 12 JULY
Hezbollah fighters based in southern Lebanon launch Katyusha rockets across the border with Israel, targeting the town of Shlomi and outposts in the Shebaa Farms area.
In a cross-border raid, guerrillas seize two Israeli soldiers before retreating back into Lebanon, insisting on a prisoner exchange and warning against confrontation. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert describes the capture of the soldiers as "an act of war".
In response Israeli planes bomb Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon and troops cross into southern Lebanon for the first time since the military withdrawal of 2000.
However, the troops encounter heavy resistance - eight are killed and two others are injured during fighting with Hezbollah. Israel calls up reserve troops as it pledges a swift and large-scale response to the Hezbollah attack.
THURSDAY 13 JULY
After a night of Israeli air raids across southern Lebanon, Israeli jets strike the runways at Beirut's international airport in the morning, forcing the airport to close. Reports emerge of significant numbers of civilian casualties in Lebanese towns and villages close to Israeli targets, with at least 35 people reported killed.
As Israel announces an air and sea blockade of Lebanon, insisting that Hezbollah will not be allowed to return to its former position along the international border, world powers react to the escalating crisis.
The US president defends Israel's right to defend itself from attack, but France, Russia and the EU are all critical of a "disproportionate" use of force.
As night falls a rocket hits Israel's third-largest city, Haifa, although Hezbollah denies responsibility.
FRIDAY 14 JULY
Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah promises "open war" against Israel after his offices in Beirut are bombed.
The strikes are part of Israel's ongoing operation against targets across Lebanon.
Bridges, roads and fuel depots are hit, with new strikes against Beirut airport. The number of Lebanese civilians killed in the strikes rises above 50, and the crisis continues to concern international powers.
The UN Security Council in an emergency meeting calls for an end to the Israeli operation, saying it is causing the death of innocent civilians.
Iran's president warns that any Israeli attack on Syria, seen as a sponsor of Hezbollah, will provoke a "fierce response".
SATURDAY 15 JULY
Israel expands its strikes in Lebanon, attacking a large number of targets including, for the first time, the northern port city of Tripoli.
Eighteen Lebanese fleeing a village are killed when their vehicles are struck with missiles on the road to the southern city of Tyre.
Israel has vowed to press on with attacks until soldiers are freed
The headquarters of Hezbollah are destroyed in southern Beirut.
Hezbollah responds by firing rockets on the town of Tiberias in its deepest attack into Israel so far.
Israel recovers the body of one of four sailors missing after a Hezbollah strike on a navy vessel off the Lebanese coast.
Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa says the Middle East peace process is dead and calls on the UN Security Council to tackle the crisis.
Lebanon's PM says his country is a "disaster zone" and calls for international help.
Speaking ahead of the G8 meeting in St Petersburg , US President George W Bush blames Hezbollah for the crisis and urges Syria to put pressure on the militants.
His host, Russian President Vladimir Putin, is more critical of Israel's massive bombing campaign, saying that the "use of force should be balanced"....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5179434.stm
Hezbollah fighters based in southern Lebanon launch Katyusha rockets across the border with Israel, targeting the town of Shlomi and outposts in the Shebaa Farms area.
In a cross-border raid, guerrillas seize two Israeli soldiers before retreating back into Lebanon, insisting on a prisoner exchange and warning against confrontation. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert describes the capture of the soldiers as "an act of war".
In response Israeli planes bomb Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon and troops cross into southern Lebanon for the first time since the military withdrawal of 2000.
However, the troops encounter heavy resistance - eight are killed and two others are injured during fighting with Hezbollah. Israel calls up reserve troops as it pledges a swift and large-scale response to the Hezbollah attack.
THURSDAY 13 JULY
After a night of Israeli air raids across southern Lebanon, Israeli jets strike the runways at Beirut's international airport in the morning, forcing the airport to close. Reports emerge of significant numbers of civilian casualties in Lebanese towns and villages close to Israeli targets, with at least 35 people reported killed.
As Israel announces an air and sea blockade of Lebanon, insisting that Hezbollah will not be allowed to return to its former position along the international border, world powers react to the escalating crisis.
The US president defends Israel's right to defend itself from attack, but France, Russia and the EU are all critical of a "disproportionate" use of force.
As night falls a rocket hits Israel's third-largest city, Haifa, although Hezbollah denies responsibility.
FRIDAY 14 JULY
Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah promises "open war" against Israel after his offices in Beirut are bombed.
The strikes are part of Israel's ongoing operation against targets across Lebanon.
Bridges, roads and fuel depots are hit, with new strikes against Beirut airport. The number of Lebanese civilians killed in the strikes rises above 50, and the crisis continues to concern international powers.
The UN Security Council in an emergency meeting calls for an end to the Israeli operation, saying it is causing the death of innocent civilians.
Iran's president warns that any Israeli attack on Syria, seen as a sponsor of Hezbollah, will provoke a "fierce response".
SATURDAY 15 JULY
Israel expands its strikes in Lebanon, attacking a large number of targets including, for the first time, the northern port city of Tripoli.
Eighteen Lebanese fleeing a village are killed when their vehicles are struck with missiles on the road to the southern city of Tyre.
Israel has vowed to press on with attacks until soldiers are freed
The headquarters of Hezbollah are destroyed in southern Beirut.
Hezbollah responds by firing rockets on the town of Tiberias in its deepest attack into Israel so far.
Israel recovers the body of one of four sailors missing after a Hezbollah strike on a navy vessel off the Lebanese coast.
Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa says the Middle East peace process is dead and calls on the UN Security Council to tackle the crisis.
Lebanon's PM says his country is a "disaster zone" and calls for international help.
Speaking ahead of the G8 meeting in St Petersburg , US President George W Bush blames Hezbollah for the crisis and urges Syria to put pressure on the militants.
His host, Russian President Vladimir Putin, is more critical of Israel's massive bombing campaign, saying that the "use of force should be balanced"....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5179434.stm
Seems to me Hezbollah showed remarkable restraint. They tolerated nearly a day of deliberate attacks on Lebanese civilian targets before they declared "open war".
During the course of this war Israel deliberately targetted civilians and civilian targets:
Quote:
And we all know that Israel never attacks civilians
...The Israeli Air Force launched more than 7,000 air attacks on about 7,000 targets in Lebanon between 12 July and 14 August, while the Navy conducted an additional 2,500 bombardments.(1) The attacks, though widespread, particularly concentrated on certain areas. In addition to the human toll – an estimated 1,183 fatalities, about one third of whom have been children(2), 4,054 people injured and 970,000Lebanese people displaced(3) – the civilian infrastructure was severely damaged. The Lebanese government estimates that 31 "vital points" (such as airports, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities) have been completely or partially destroyed, as have around 80 bridges and 94 roads.(4) More than 25 fuel stations(5) and around 900 commercial enterprises were hit. The number of residential properties, offices and shops completely destroyed exceeds 30,000.(6) Two government hospitals – in Bint Jbeil and in Meis al-Jebel – were completely destroyed in Israeli attacks and three others were seriously damaged.(7)...
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/as...0072006en.html
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/as...0072006en.html
Council Member
Posts: 1,679
May 31st, 2008, 12:26 AM
Quoting lone wolf
I agree, just leave the civilians out of it on both sides as per the April Agreement.
...and we all know Israeli bullets and bombs are selective about their targets.
One is as bad as the other. They need a good cage match.
Woof!
One is as bad as the other. They need a good cage match.
Woof!
House Member
Posts: 2,507
Location: SW Ontario
Location: SW Ontario
May 31st, 2008, 02:27 PM
From your own link in the original post:
Using rockets fired on several Israeli towns as a diversion
Hezbollah targeted civilians with it's opening shot, yet you spew drivel about not only how Israel was the first to target civilians, but how Hezbollah should be praised for restraint.
Stop with the lies.
Quoting earth_as_one
Again with your propaganda. And you wonder why I have such a hard time sympathising with the Arab side. We've been through this before, yet you come back here and make the same BS claims that you KNOW are BS claims.
and that's how civilians became targets.
From your own link in the original post:
Using rockets fired on several Israeli towns as a diversion
Hezbollah targeted civilians with it's opening shot, yet you spew drivel about not only how Israel was the first to target civilians, but how Hezbollah should be praised for restraint.
Stop with the lies.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,592
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
May 31st, 2008, 02:45 PM
He was part of a PLF 4 man squad of terrorists who raided Israel, killed two policemen, and then this hero shot an Israeli hostage in the back of the head in front of his four year old daughter..............then he crushed the little girl's skull with his rifle butt, killing her.
Couldn't even spare her a bullet.
Funny, I'd spare him one, the Israelis should have done so years ago.
Hezbollah is the proxy army of Iran.....they are in the process of destroying Lebanon, they have re-armed in violation the pitiful agreement signed to stop the justified Israeli attacks. Hezbollah (as stated by its leaders) does not want to just destroy Israel, but all Jews. They have attacked Jews as far away as Argentina.
Israel should have brought ALL their military prowess to bear, and not stopped until Hezbollah was destroyed.
Simple as that.
Quoting Just the Facts
Thanks JTF, you beat me to it.
Again with your propaganda. And you wonder why I have such a hard time sympathising with the Arab side. We've been through this before, yet you come back here and make the same BS claims that you KNOW are BS claims.
From your own link in the original post:
Using rockets fired on several Israeli towns as a diversion
Hezbollah targeted civilians with it's opening shot, yet you spew drivel about not only how Israel was the first to target civilians, but how Hezbollah should be praised for restraint.
Stop with the lies.
From your own link in the original post:
Using rockets fired on several Israeli towns as a diversion
Hezbollah targeted civilians with it's opening shot, yet you spew drivel about not only how Israel was the first to target civilians, but how Hezbollah should be praised for restraint.
Stop with the lies.
Quote:
So, who is Samir Al-Quntar, and why is he such a hero to Hezbollah?
The operation was originally named "Freedom for Samir Al-Quntar and his brothers" by Hezbollah
He was part of a PLF 4 man squad of terrorists who raided Israel, killed two policemen, and then this hero shot an Israeli hostage in the back of the head in front of his four year old daughter..............then he crushed the little girl's skull with his rifle butt, killing her.
Couldn't even spare her a bullet.
Funny, I'd spare him one, the Israelis should have done so years ago.
Hezbollah is the proxy army of Iran.....they are in the process of destroying Lebanon, they have re-armed in violation the pitiful agreement signed to stop the justified Israeli attacks. Hezbollah (as stated by its leaders) does not want to just destroy Israel, but all Jews. They have attacked Jews as far away as Argentina.
Israel should have brought ALL their military prowess to bear, and not stopped until Hezbollah was destroyed.
Simple as that.
Council Member
Posts: 1,679
June 4th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Israel claims Hezbollah's diversionary attack was directed at civilians. I've searched and I can't find specific information about civilian victims. Normally a single Israeli casualty resulting from a Hezbollah attack is headlines. But I can't find anything. What does that imply?
If this was an attack on civilians as Israel claims and some were injured, you'd think they'd be easy to find. Not being able to find any specific information makes me skeptical.
As far as the person who allegedly killed these people. I'm in favor of incarcerating all people who commit murder. Did this person have a fair trial? If so, justice has been served.
How about this guy? Should he be locked up too?
What about all the other Israeli soldiers and settlers who murder innocent Palestinians like this Captain R. Should they be locked up too?
Israel claims Hezbollah's diversionary attack was directed at civilians. I've searched and I can't find specific information about civilian victims. Normally a single Israeli casualty resulting from a Hezbollah attack is headlines. But I can't find anything. What does that imply?
If this was an attack on civilians as Israel claims and some were injured, you'd think they'd be easy to find. Not being able to find any specific information makes me skeptical.
As far as the person who allegedly killed these people. I'm in favor of incarcerating all people who commit murder. Did this person have a fair trial? If so, justice has been served.
How about this guy? Should he be locked up too?
Quote:
Israeli Officer:
I was Right to Shoot 13-Year-Old Child
Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing
the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".
The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.
At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.
The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004...mas24nov04.htm
I was Right to Shoot 13-Year-Old Child
Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing
the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".
The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.
At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.
The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.
Quote:
Watchtower:
'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'
Operations room:
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'
Watchtower:
'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'
Captain R (after killing the girl):
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'
'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'
Operations room:
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'
Watchtower:
'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'
Captain R (after killing the girl):
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004...mas24nov04.htm
Quote:
Schoolgirl's killer walks free
Despite the fact that members of the Al Hams family had low expectations of the outcome of the court case, they were shocked by the ruling. Her father Samir later spoke to reporters saying: "They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."
Iman is one of many schoolchildren who have lost their lives to the Israeli Occupation forces. A blogger described some of the deaths of twelve year olds in the conflict in a post which was written around the time of Imam's death.
It is extremely rare for an Israeli soldier to be punished for the death of a Palestinian.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/11/327970.html
Despite the fact that members of the Al Hams family had low expectations of the outcome of the court case, they were shocked by the ruling. Her father Samir later spoke to reporters saying: "They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."
Iman is one of many schoolchildren who have lost their lives to the Israeli Occupation forces. A blogger described some of the deaths of twelve year olds in the conflict in a post which was written around the time of Imam's death.
It is extremely rare for an Israeli soldier to be punished for the death of a Palestinian.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/11/327970.html
What about all the other Israeli soldiers and settlers who murder innocent Palestinians like this Captain R. Should they be locked up too?
