Electoral Member
Posts: 265 
April 23rd, 2008, 04:44 AM
For years the farmer had a rough go at raising crops because
they would only end up with very little after they paid for the cost.
The people that were making the big money were in the
distribution network.
A good example of this was the mad cow scare years ago where
the price of beef increased in price at the butcher store.
The farmers were demonstrating in the federal and provincial
state buildings all over the world because they weren’t getting enough money.
The farmers aren’t complaining any more because there is a
new kid in town called biofuels and the kid is spanking the big boys and the
farmer will get a lot more for their crops then they ever did.
Our food is dramatically increasing in price.
In the poorer countries people are rioting because they
can’t afford to buy the food that they need
Glen Beck a talk show host on one of the American channels
said the stores are starting to ration their staples like rice and beans and
wheat and people should have a stockpile of food at home.
In Ontario the premier has told people that have houses with
backyards to start growing their own food.
Thanks to the environmental movement more farmers are
growing more grains for the burning of cleaner fuels as opposed for human
consumption.
So next time when you see them demonstrating for their cause
just let them know that they are responsible for this fiasco.
But you never know maybe their hidden agenda is to reduce
the world population.
For years the farmer had a rough go at raising crops because
they would only end up with very little after they paid for the cost.
The people that were making the big money were in the
distribution network.
A good example of this was the mad cow scare years ago where
the price of beef increased in price at the butcher store.
The farmers were demonstrating in the federal and provincial
state buildings all over the world because they weren’t getting enough money.
The farmers aren’t complaining any more because there is a
new kid in town called biofuels and the kid is spanking the big boys and the
farmer will get a lot more for their crops then they ever did.
Our food is dramatically increasing in price.
In the poorer countries people are rioting because they
can’t afford to buy the food that they need
Glen Beck a talk show host on one of the American channels
said the stores are starting to ration their staples like rice and beans and
wheat and people should have a stockpile of food at home.
In Ontario the premier has told people that have houses with
backyards to start growing their own food.
Thanks to the environmental movement more farmers are
growing more grains for the burning of cleaner fuels as opposed for human
consumption.
So next time when you see them demonstrating for their cause
just let them know that they are responsible for this fiasco.
But you never know maybe their hidden agenda is to reduce
the world population.
Council Member
Posts: 1,775 
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 23rd, 2008, 04:56 AM
Oh BS! F**king propaganda!
Food costs are high because of market conditions. As free markets and corporatism (aka democracy) spread food shortages will continue to increase, as the Economist put it, we're victims of our own success.
I'm really getting tired of this pseudo-political science dodge that is global warming.
Want to change something? Easy! Blame global warming!
Oh BS! F**king propaganda!
Food costs are high because of market conditions. As free markets and corporatism (aka democracy) spread food shortages will continue to increase, as the Economist put it, we're victims of our own success.
I'm really getting tired of this pseudo-political science dodge that is global warming.
Want to change something? Easy! Blame global warming!
Electoral Member
Posts: 265
April 23rd, 2008, 08:32 AM
Scott-free
I can see your point because of the drought conditions but this is not reflective of the overall situation now that farmers want to make more money by increasing their plantings per acre to bio-fuels.
If the food processors want to compete for those crops then they have to pay a much higher rate, which means a lot higher cost to consumers.
A lot more corporations are buying up farmland at an alarming rate so they can cash in the bio-gold.
A lot more farmers are plowing under their crops for bio-fuel.
These are the same farmers that exported their crops to feed the poor.
This is not propaganda this is what’s happening now.
So now we all will be able to breath good clean air and the ozone will be fixed.
We just have to hope all this happens before we all starve to death.
I wonder if the environmental movement expect us to consume Soya Green.
Scott-free
I can see your point because of the drought conditions but this is not reflective of the overall situation now that farmers want to make more money by increasing their plantings per acre to bio-fuels.
If the food processors want to compete for those crops then they have to pay a much higher rate, which means a lot higher cost to consumers.
A lot more corporations are buying up farmland at an alarming rate so they can cash in the bio-gold.
A lot more farmers are plowing under their crops for bio-fuel.
These are the same farmers that exported their crops to feed the poor.
This is not propaganda this is what’s happening now.
So now we all will be able to breath good clean air and the ozone will be fixed.
We just have to hope all this happens before we all starve to death.
I wonder if the environmental movement expect us to consume Soya Green.
Council Member
Posts: 1,775
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 23rd, 2008, 08:38 AM
Liberalman
I don't disagree with you. My point is that the reason food prices are going up is that the means of production is increasingly being given over to large corporate interests who respond to the market not to human need.
So what I am saying is that this isn't a global warming issue but a social one. The markets are reacting to the global warming agenda but that they can react in such a way resulting in food shortages is a social issue.
Liberalman
I don't disagree with you. My point is that the reason food prices are going up is that the means of production is increasingly being given over to large corporate interests who respond to the market not to human need.
So what I am saying is that this isn't a global warming issue but a social one. The markets are reacting to the global warming agenda but that they can react in such a way resulting in food shortages is a social issue.
Electoral Member
Posts: 265
April 23rd, 2008, 09:02 AM
Scott-free
You have to remember that any business from the family farm to large corporations they want to get paid, none of them are doing this for social issues they are all doing this for ROI or Return On Investment.
They all jump on the social issues bandwagon so they can sell more products that in itself is propaganda.
If people were so concerned about social issues then why are they still buying products made in countries that have human rights issues.
Society is in a mindset, which is “the cheaper the better”, and “how much more money I can make” and if all those are covered maybe a little for social issues.
Ask any taxpayer if they are willing to pay more for social issues?
Scott-free
You have to remember that any business from the family farm to large corporations they want to get paid, none of them are doing this for social issues they are all doing this for ROI or Return On Investment.
They all jump on the social issues bandwagon so they can sell more products that in itself is propaganda.
If people were so concerned about social issues then why are they still buying products made in countries that have human rights issues.
Society is in a mindset, which is “the cheaper the better”, and “how much more money I can make” and if all those are covered maybe a little for social issues.
Ask any taxpayer if they are willing to pay more for social issues?
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,261
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 23rd, 2008, 09:03 AM
What is so frightening about Engdahl's vision of the world is that it is so real. Although our civilization has been built on humanistic ideals, in this new age of "free markets", everything-- science, commerce, agriculture and even seeds-- have become weapons in the hands of a few global corporation barons and their political fellow travelers. To achieve world domination, they no longer rely on bayonet-wielding soldiers. All they need is to control food production. (Dr. Arpad Pusztai, biochemist, formerly of the Rowett Research Institute Institute, Scotland)
if you want to learn about the socio-political agenda --why biotech corporations insist on spreading GMO seeds around the World-- you should read this carefully researched book. You will learn how these corporations want to achieve control over all mankind, and why we must resist... (Marijan Jost, Professor of Genetics, Krizevci, Croatia)
The book reads like a murder mystery of an incredible dimension, in which four giant Anglo-American agribusiness conglomerates have no hesitation to use GMO to gain control over our very means of subsistence... (Anton Moser, Professor of Biotechnology, Graz, Austria).
Seeds Of Destruction--------------the book
What is so frightening about Engdahl's vision of the world is that it is so real. Although our civilization has been built on humanistic ideals, in this new age of "free markets", everything-- science, commerce, agriculture and even seeds-- have become weapons in the hands of a few global corporation barons and their political fellow travelers. To achieve world domination, they no longer rely on bayonet-wielding soldiers. All they need is to control food production. (Dr. Arpad Pusztai, biochemist, formerly of the Rowett Research Institute Institute, Scotland)
if you want to learn about the socio-political agenda --why biotech corporations insist on spreading GMO seeds around the World-- you should read this carefully researched book. You will learn how these corporations want to achieve control over all mankind, and why we must resist... (Marijan Jost, Professor of Genetics, Krizevci, Croatia)
The book reads like a murder mystery of an incredible dimension, in which four giant Anglo-American agribusiness conglomerates have no hesitation to use GMO to gain control over our very means of subsistence... (Anton Moser, Professor of Biotechnology, Graz, Austria).
Seeds Of Destruction--------------the book
Metal King
Posts: 1,027
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
April 23rd, 2008, 09:28 AM
Were Monsanto's "terminator" seeds a product of environmentalists?? From what I understand them suckers are not helping the global food supply very much at all. Even Iraqis are being pushed into using monsanto's product thanks to L. Paul Bremer (seriously a provision for securing an exclusive market for Monsanto was one of the last things that guy made official before the hand-job of "sovreignty")
It is weird how in the last few days several threads blaming "environmentalists" for almost EVERYTHING that's wrong have cropped up, must be concerted propaganda timed to fall around Earth Day
Were Monsanto's "terminator" seeds a product of environmentalists?? From what I understand them suckers are not helping the global food supply very much at all. Even Iraqis are being pushed into using monsanto's product thanks to L. Paul Bremer (seriously a provision for securing an exclusive market for Monsanto was one of the last things that guy made official before the hand-job of "sovreignty")
It is weird how in the last few days several threads blaming "environmentalists" for almost EVERYTHING that's wrong have cropped up, must be concerted propaganda timed to fall around Earth Day
Electoral Member
Posts: 902
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
April 23rd, 2008, 09:36 AM
http://www.rense.com/general80/seedsofdestruction.htm
http://www.organicconsumers.org/ge/g...tics021405.cfm
Don't forget this issue from a few years ago.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/070400-106.htm
Food and fuel seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no shortage of fuel so that is not a factor in the rising prices, in theory as more bio-fuel is available the price should remain level. The only problem is 'currently' that the price is rising, for whatever reason. This isn't the same with food prices rising, that is from a real shortage, at some point it will be unavailable, at any price. At least for the poorest of people, which doesn't mean the poorest in Canada, the places where people are starving to death today will be ones who get it even worse.
One question I do have is that 'income' for workers seems to work on a set rise, say at most 10%/yr, yet what that money is there to purchase seems to be without any restriction, esp necessities like food and 'energy' in all forms. Over 5 years wages may increase 50% (and I doubt very much that ever happens, probably more like 15%) which still seems to be less than the rise in prices of consumables. That means our 'real income' is declining.
I've also read several articles that show 'overall' bio-fuel does not do what it was promised to do, lower emissions, once all the factors are taken into account. That means all manufacturing facets not just what goes in the tank and comes out the pipe.
Quoting darkbeaver
Seeds Of Destruction--------------the book
I believe that is free also, or at least part 1. The links below are good primers on the subject.Seeds Of Destruction--------------the book
http://www.rense.com/general80/seedsofdestruction.htm
http://www.organicconsumers.org/ge/g...tics021405.cfm
Don't forget this issue from a few years ago.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/070400-106.htm
Food and fuel seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no shortage of fuel so that is not a factor in the rising prices, in theory as more bio-fuel is available the price should remain level. The only problem is 'currently' that the price is rising, for whatever reason. This isn't the same with food prices rising, that is from a real shortage, at some point it will be unavailable, at any price. At least for the poorest of people, which doesn't mean the poorest in Canada, the places where people are starving to death today will be ones who get it even worse.
One question I do have is that 'income' for workers seems to work on a set rise, say at most 10%/yr, yet what that money is there to purchase seems to be without any restriction, esp necessities like food and 'energy' in all forms. Over 5 years wages may increase 50% (and I doubt very much that ever happens, probably more like 15%) which still seems to be less than the rise in prices of consumables. That means our 'real income' is declining.
I've also read several articles that show 'overall' bio-fuel does not do what it was promised to do, lower emissions, once all the factors are taken into account. That means all manufacturing facets not just what goes in the tank and comes out the pipe.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,261
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 23rd, 2008, 09:43 AM
Yes I have. They are under great pressures to supply seed presently. There will be shortages.
Quoting karrie
Have you had exposure to seed bank foundations, people dedicated to preserving bio-diversity? If you're so impassioned about the dangers of GM crops, you may want to seek out one of these in your region, and get involved.
Yes I have. They are under great pressures to supply seed presently. There will be shortages.
April 23rd, 2008, 09:46 AM
Quoting darkbeaver
I've been torn between rototilling under my entire front yard and turning it over to food production, or simply leaving it one more year and doing up the bare flower beds with native perennials from Bedrock Seed Bank. I'll have to chat with hubby about it I guess, but, tilling it under and going to food sounds better and better. lol.
Yes I have. They are under great pressures to supply seed presently. There will be shortages.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,261
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 23rd, 2008, 09:48 AM
Quoting mabudon
Yes it seems that environmentalists have caused the worlds problems and it wasn't the wealthy elite afterall.
Were Monsanto's "terminator" seeds a product of environmentalists?? From what I understand them suckers are not helping the global food supply very much at all. Even Iraqis are being pushed into using monsanto's product thanks to L. Paul Bremer (seriously a provision for securing an exclusive market for Monsanto was one of the last things that guy made official before the hand-job of "sovreignty")
It is weird how in the last few days several threads blaming "environmentalists" for almost EVERYTHING that's wrong have cropped up, must be concerted propaganda timed to fall around Earth Day
It is weird how in the last few days several threads blaming "environmentalists" for almost EVERYTHING that's wrong have cropped up, must be concerted propaganda timed to fall around Earth Day
Electoral Member
Posts: 902
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
April 23rd, 2008, 09:52 AM
Non-GM growers might want to keep this information handy in case their neighbors are not anti-GM.
"
http://www.percyschmeiser.com/
Non-GM growers might want to keep this information handy in case their neighbors are not anti-GM.
"
http://www.percyschmeiser.com/
Metal King
Posts: 1,027
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
April 23rd, 2008, 10:08 AM
Thanks MHZ, I didn't hear ANYTHING about that, glad it got settled, I hope every field in our country gets contaminated bad enough that Monsanto decides to get the hell out of our country.
That makes me wonder, IF Monsanto wants to own the patent on AL crops, maybe they're actively killing off the bees so that NO plants will grow but by the divine will of Monsanto..
From some of the other DIRTY things that company has done I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case
Thanks MHZ, I didn't hear ANYTHING about that, glad it got settled, I hope every field in our country gets contaminated bad enough that Monsanto decides to get the hell out of our country.
That makes me wonder, IF Monsanto wants to own the patent on AL crops, maybe they're actively killing off the bees so that NO plants will grow but by the divine will of Monsanto..
From some of the other DIRTY things that company has done I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case
Council Member
Posts: 1,775
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 23rd, 2008, 10:09 AM
I would also say leaving the fundamentals of our existence, like food for example, exclusively to the dictates of the free market is also, aside from being remarkably stupid, a major social problem IMO.
Quoting Liberalman
Some social issues are real and placing psychopaths in charge of food production qualifies as such IMO. Scott-free
You have to remember that any business from the family farm to large corporations they want to get paid, none of them are doing this for social issues they are all doing this for ROI or Return On Investment.
They all jump on the social issues bandwagon so they can sell more products that in itself is propaganda.
If people were so concerned about social issues then why are they still buying products made in countries that have human rights issues.
Society is in a mindset, which is “the cheaper the better”, and “how much more money I can make” and if all those are covered maybe a little for social issues.
Ask any taxpayer if they are willing to pay more for social issues?
You have to remember that any business from the family farm to large corporations they want to get paid, none of them are doing this for social issues they are all doing this for ROI or Return On Investment.
They all jump on the social issues bandwagon so they can sell more products that in itself is propaganda.
If people were so concerned about social issues then why are they still buying products made in countries that have human rights issues.
Society is in a mindset, which is “the cheaper the better”, and “how much more money I can make” and if all those are covered maybe a little for social issues.
Ask any taxpayer if they are willing to pay more for social issues?
I would also say leaving the fundamentals of our existence, like food for example, exclusively to the dictates of the free market is also, aside from being remarkably stupid, a major social problem IMO.
Electoral Member
Posts: 902
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
April 23rd, 2008, 11:03 AM
That being said, having a plant grow that contains it's own pesticide and whatever they did to make it only produce sterile seeds does look benign as far as bees are concerned. Not that they would ever, ever admit such a thing was even an 'accidental' consequence, let alone by intentional design.
Quoting mabudon
I'm sure they would be quite happy to control (get paid something) to have it that way. Whether or not the bees and GM crops are linked (which I think is the case) it may not have been by design (lack of investigation on their part during the research stage).
Thanks MHZ, I didn't hear ANYTHING about that, glad it got settled, I hope every field in our country gets contaminated bad enough that Monsanto decides to get the hell out of our country.
That makes me wonder, IF Monsanto wants to own the patent on AL crops, maybe they're actively killing off the bees so that NO plants will grow but by the divine will of Monsanto..
From some of the other DIRTY things that company has done I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case
That makes me wonder, IF Monsanto wants to own the patent on AL crops, maybe they're actively killing off the bees so that NO plants will grow but by the divine will of Monsanto..
From some of the other DIRTY things that company has done I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case
That being said, having a plant grow that contains it's own pesticide and whatever they did to make it only produce sterile seeds does look benign as far as bees are concerned. Not that they would ever, ever admit such a thing was even an 'accidental' consequence, let alone by intentional design.
