Council Member
Posts: 1,836 
Location: china
Location: china
April 22nd, 2008, 08:55 AM
Tuesday 22nd April 2008Edition 113/2008
More China News
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US asks China to open up Tibet and have dialogue with Dalai Lama
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The renewed call was made at a meeting Monday between the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader and the US special envoy for Tibet, Paula Dobriansky, at the University of Michigan campus in Ann Arbor.
'This meeting is part of our ongoing efforts to promote dialogue between the Dalai Lama and Chinese leaders,' the State Department stated after the meeting. Dobriansky 'reiterated our long-standing support for substantive dialogue between the Dalai Lama and China's leaders,' it said.
'This is not a new message, but rather one we have consistently delivered to all sides long before the current situation in Tibet, and one we will continue to deliver to our interlocutors at all levels.'
Dobriansky and the Dalai Lama also discussed the current situation in Tibet and the need for China to permit journalists and others reasonable access to all Tibetan areas, the State Department said.
'We've long held that that kind of dialogue is the best way to resolve the longstanding issues with respect to Tibet. And of course, that includes trying to help deal with the consequences of some of the recent violence there,' spokesman Tom Casey told reporters earlier.
Washington, he said, wanted to hear from the Dalai Lama about his ideas and what he believes might be the next appropriate steps in this. 'We are certainly going to, of course, also continue to have discussions with the Government of China about this.'
'Both in our public statements as well as in our private discussions with Chinese officials we've strongly encouraged them to reach out to the Dalai Lama and to his representatives to be able to have the kind of dialogue that would reduce tensions and help lead to a resolution of some of these differences,' Casey said.
Meanwhile, media reports from Ann Arbor said the Dalai Lama told Dobriansky he appreciated US concern with China's handling of the political unrest in Tibet and said 'we need your help.'
The administration 'has expressed its concern about the situation in Tibet and has urged restraint,' Dobriansky said.
President George W. Bush 'has been a steadfast supporter of the need for dialogue between his holiness and Chinese leaders ... we see a dialogue as an important means and way to go forward, ' she said
Tuesday 22nd April 2008Edition 113/2008
More China News
Chinese guards to use bodies' to protect Olympic torch during Oz relay: Envoy
Chinese cities introduce reforms promoting private business
Norman to lead field in Shanghai golf
Clooney calls for end of global hate campaign against China
Court orders seizure of arms cargo, vessel slips away
South-East Asia's wealth management sector booming
Man in court for slapping Hong Kong actress
China creating world's largest panda breeding center
China's protection of human rights differs from West
US asks China to open up Tibet and have dialogue with Dalai Lama
Indian caught smuggling banned drug into Taiwan
India discusses G8 issues, talks with China TuesdayGet China National News headlines emailed to you daily.
RSS DirectoryUS asks China to open up Tibet and have dialogue with Dalai Lama
China National News
Tuesday 22nd April, 2008
(IANS)
The US has reiterated its call for a substantive dialogue between the Dalai Lama and China's leaders, while stressing the need for China to permit journalists and others reasonable access to all Tibetan areas.China National News
Tuesday 22nd April, 2008
(IANS)
The renewed call was made at a meeting Monday between the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader and the US special envoy for Tibet, Paula Dobriansky, at the University of Michigan campus in Ann Arbor.
'This meeting is part of our ongoing efforts to promote dialogue between the Dalai Lama and Chinese leaders,' the State Department stated after the meeting. Dobriansky 'reiterated our long-standing support for substantive dialogue between the Dalai Lama and China's leaders,' it said.
'This is not a new message, but rather one we have consistently delivered to all sides long before the current situation in Tibet, and one we will continue to deliver to our interlocutors at all levels.'
Dobriansky and the Dalai Lama also discussed the current situation in Tibet and the need for China to permit journalists and others reasonable access to all Tibetan areas, the State Department said.
'We've long held that that kind of dialogue is the best way to resolve the longstanding issues with respect to Tibet. And of course, that includes trying to help deal with the consequences of some of the recent violence there,' spokesman Tom Casey told reporters earlier.
Washington, he said, wanted to hear from the Dalai Lama about his ideas and what he believes might be the next appropriate steps in this. 'We are certainly going to, of course, also continue to have discussions with the Government of China about this.'
'Both in our public statements as well as in our private discussions with Chinese officials we've strongly encouraged them to reach out to the Dalai Lama and to his representatives to be able to have the kind of dialogue that would reduce tensions and help lead to a resolution of some of these differences,' Casey said.
Meanwhile, media reports from Ann Arbor said the Dalai Lama told Dobriansky he appreciated US concern with China's handling of the political unrest in Tibet and said 'we need your help.'
The administration 'has expressed its concern about the situation in Tibet and has urged restraint,' Dobriansky said.
President George W. Bush 'has been a steadfast supporter of the need for dialogue between his holiness and Chinese leaders ... we see a dialogue as an important means and way to go forward, ' she said
Council Member
Posts: 1,193
May 12th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Quoting Avro
Hey Avro you are bang on. On the news Chinese military was physically oppressive with the women nuns who were protesting. These despicable idiots looked so bad with their uneducated little brains fighting women with no weapons. The fortunate part here is that the world has seen proof of how these losers think. I have friends from China who tell me how if one opposes the Chinese dictators they come in the middle of the night and take a family member out cut their hair funny and send them out in the public for a humiliating session, apparently these has been going on since the MAO days. My friend have witnessed people taken out and in savior cases drowned in the middle of the night and found the next day face down in city Pons. China here on the forum is so proud of his political rulers.
Sure, China I suspect will be all lovey dovey now towards Tibet and the DalaiLama.....that is until the Olympics are over then it's Tibet Russia style.
Council Member
Posts: 1,836
Location: china
Location: china
May 12th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Avro
Avro
Quote:
I think you fell of the stairs one too many times.Learn to fly avro (not that that would help your way of thinking)
Sure, China I suspect will be all lovey dovey now towards Tibet and the DalaiLama.....that is until the Olympics are over then it's Tibet Russia style.
jimmoyer
Posts: 5,006 
Location: Winchester Virginia
Location: Winchester Virginia
May 13th, 2008, 08:41 AM
What is this, the Sportsplex Arena ?
My team is better than yours.
Nah nah .
Obviously China (the country, never mind the defender here) has issues.
You could actually say they are more free than any western country business-wise because of very little regulation and oversight. That will change as they grow.
Man, Kindergarten ethics is the same as International ethics, except kicks in the shin escalate to nuclear holocaust.
Lizard brain brats ----- the human race to nowhere.
What is this, the Sportsplex Arena ?
My team is better than yours.
Nah nah .
Obviously China (the country, never mind the defender here) has issues.
You could actually say they are more free than any western country business-wise because of very little regulation and oversight. That will change as they grow.
Man, Kindergarten ethics is the same as International ethics, except kicks in the shin escalate to nuclear holocaust.
Lizard brain brats ----- the human race to nowhere.
World Police
Posts: 4,649
Videos: 1
Videos: 1
May 13th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Quoting ShintoMale
If you believe what the Chinese government tells you....
destroying property and attacking people is not protesting
Electoral Member
Posts: 84
Location: Toronto, Canada
Location: Toronto, Canada
May 13th, 2008, 03:32 PM
there are pictures showing monks and people destroying property and attacking people on the street. the anti-china western media will not show you that. and free tibet propaganda is a CIA creation.
Quoting DurkaDurka
If you believe what the Chinese government tells you....
there are pictures showing monks and people destroying property and attacking people on the street. the anti-china western media will not show you that. and free tibet propaganda is a CIA creation.
Council Member
Posts: 1,193
May 13th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Quoting china
Hey man trust me I have more friends than you will ever have. It is common knowledge that the Chinese leadership is watching you every step of the way. What I have posted on this forum it may be bull sh!t to you but I can assure you that the wrong committed against innocent civilians by the Chinese military police is on record all over the internet. So take your spin and shove it where the sun don’t shine. Socrates the Greek
You dont't have any friends especialy in China ,......don't bull**** boy.
You dont't have any friends especialy in China ,......don't bull**** boy.
World Police
Posts: 4,649
Videos: 1
Videos: 1
May 13th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Quoting ShintoMale
blah blah blah. I guess thats what happens when they are provoked by your pig of a government.
there are pictures showing monks and people destroying property and attacking people on the street. the anti-china western media will not show you that. and free tibet propaganda is a CIA creation.
Electoral Member
Posts: 84
Location: Toronto, Canada
Location: Toronto, Canada
May 14th, 2008, 01:24 PM
isn that all you free tibeters can do insult people that disagree with your CIA created propaganda? some facts for you and your hippy free tibeters:
michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
forums.canadiancontent.net/off-topic/72451-dalai-lama-cia.html
Quoting DurkaDurka
blah blah blah. I guess thats what happens when they are provoked by your pig of a government.
isn that all you free tibeters can do insult people that disagree with your CIA created propaganda? some facts for you and your hippy free tibeters:
Quote:
Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into manorial estates worked by serfs. These estates were owned by two social groups: the rich secular landlords and the rich theocratic lamas. Even a writer sympathetic to the old order allows that “a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches.” Much of the wealth was accumulated “through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.”
Quote:
Drepung monastery was one of the biggest landowners in the world, with its 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 great pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. The wealth of the monasteries rested in the hands of small numbers of high-ranking lamas. Most ordinary monks lived modestly and had no direct access to great wealth. The Dalai Lama himself “lived richly in the 1000-room, 14-story Potala Palace.”
Secular leaders also did well. A notable example was the commander-in-chief of the Tibetan army, a member of the Dalai Lama’s lay Cabinet, who owned 4,000 square kilometers of land and 3,500 serfs. Old Tibet has been misrepresented by some Western admirers as “a nation that required no police force because its people voluntarily observed the laws of karma.” In fact. it had a professional army, albeit a small one, that served mainly as a gendarmerie for the landlords to keep order, protect their property, and hunt down runaway serfs.
Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at age nine. The monastic estates also conscripted children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers.
In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the “middle-class” families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery’s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand. Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location.
As in a free labor system and unlike slavery, the overlords had no responsibility for the serf’s maintenance and no direct interest in his or her survival as an expensive piece of property. The serfs had to support themselves. Yet as in a slave system, they were bound to their masters, guaranteeing a fixed and permanent workforce that could neither organize nor strike nor freely depart as might laborers in a market context. The overlords had the best of both worlds.
One 22-year old woman, herself a runaway serf, reports: “Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owner as house servants and used as he wished”; they “were just slaves without rights.” Serfs needed permission to go anywhere. Landowners had legal authority to capture those who tried to flee. One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a “liberation.” He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord’s men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed.
The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being unemployed, and if they traveled to another village in search of work, they paid a passage tax. When people could not pay, the monasteries lent them money at 20 to 50 percent interest. Some debts were handed down from father to son to grandson. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast into slavery.
The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.
The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation--including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation--were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.” Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God” in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.
In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands, and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling. The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master’s cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who was raped and then had her nose sliced away.
Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under the “intolerable tyranny of monks” and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama’s rule as “an engine of oppression.” At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O’Connor, observed that “the great landowners and the priests… exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,” while the people are “oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft.” Tibetan rulers “invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition” among the common people. In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, “The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them. . . . The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth.” As much as we might wish otherwise, feudal theocratic Tibet was a far cry from the romanticized Shangri La so enthusiastically nurtured by Buddhism’s western proselytes.
Secular leaders also did well. A notable example was the commander-in-chief of the Tibetan army, a member of the Dalai Lama’s lay Cabinet, who owned 4,000 square kilometers of land and 3,500 serfs. Old Tibet has been misrepresented by some Western admirers as “a nation that required no police force because its people voluntarily observed the laws of karma.” In fact. it had a professional army, albeit a small one, that served mainly as a gendarmerie for the landlords to keep order, protect their property, and hunt down runaway serfs.
Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at age nine. The monastic estates also conscripted children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers.
In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the “middle-class” families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery’s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand. Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location.
As in a free labor system and unlike slavery, the overlords had no responsibility for the serf’s maintenance and no direct interest in his or her survival as an expensive piece of property. The serfs had to support themselves. Yet as in a slave system, they were bound to their masters, guaranteeing a fixed and permanent workforce that could neither organize nor strike nor freely depart as might laborers in a market context. The overlords had the best of both worlds.
One 22-year old woman, herself a runaway serf, reports: “Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owner as house servants and used as he wished”; they “were just slaves without rights.” Serfs needed permission to go anywhere. Landowners had legal authority to capture those who tried to flee. One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a “liberation.” He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord’s men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed.
The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being unemployed, and if they traveled to another village in search of work, they paid a passage tax. When people could not pay, the monasteries lent them money at 20 to 50 percent interest. Some debts were handed down from father to son to grandson. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast into slavery.
The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.
The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation--including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation--were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.” Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God” in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.
In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands, and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling. The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master’s cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who was raped and then had her nose sliced away.
Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under the “intolerable tyranny of monks” and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama’s rule as “an engine of oppression.” At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O’Connor, observed that “the great landowners and the priests… exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,” while the people are “oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft.” Tibetan rulers “invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition” among the common people. In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, “The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them. . . . The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth.” As much as we might wish otherwise, feudal theocratic Tibet was a far cry from the romanticized Shangri La so enthusiastically nurtured by Buddhism’s western proselytes.
michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
forums.canadiancontent.net/off-topic/72451-dalai-lama-cia.html
