Stop distorting Tibet unless you want to do CCP a favor

[hegel325]

As a native Chinese who disagrees with CCP's human right policy all these years, I am telling you that supporting Dalai Lama and his fellow terrorists is doing CCP a BIG favor.

Before those ugly things happened, China was experiencing a very severe economic situation: the economic bubbles, in real estate and stock market were about to break down as well as the CPI increased insanely every month, and Chinese were extremely dissatisfied living under the economic crisis. Yes, that was only several months ago and it seemed that a political reform was foreseeable when the inevitable economic reform begins.

But unfortunately the western media started accusing China on the Tibet issue, which is apprently a riot done by Dalai's terrorists if you actually WENT to Tibet on that day. Dalai's tricks were ridiculously poor which made the majority of Chinese resentful, and what was worse, it made almost EVERY Chinese resentful when those ignoramus got Olympics involved.

So if you don't like CCP and really want to improve the human right in China, get Chinese on your side instead of pissing them off, and distoring Tibet and Olympics really pissed them off badly.

 

[dancing-loon]

Hi, Hegel;
did you for some fancy reason pick the German Philosopher as your nickname? One of his quotes:

“What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it”

How very true!

I've read your posting and wonder, if I might ask an innocent question, as I am a little naive about China and Tibet, Dalai Lama and the monks etc.
What does CCP stand for?

Thanks;
loon

 

[dj03]

We've been doing favours for the CCP since 1971 when we let them become the official representatives of China at the UN (and watched Taiwan's involvement in world bodies decline sharply after that).

Honestly, our politicians just view this as a bump in the road towards furthering our trade relationship and will do as little as possible to bother the CCP...maybe dodge the opening ceremonies but show up for cocktails afterwards.

 

[hegel325]

Hi, Hegel;
did you for some fancy reason pick the German Philosopher as your nickname? One of his quotes:How very true!

I've read your posting and wonder, if I might ask an innocent question, as I am a little naive about China and Tibet, Dalai Lama and the monks etc.
What does CCP stand for?

Thanks;
loon

CCP stands for Chinese Communist Party

Well, I suppose many westerners do not differentiate the concepts of the "CCP" and "China" as a mean of a country, but it is very comfortable to assume that Chinese who are "pro-China" may not be "pro-Communism", and me is an appealing example. Imagining yourself live in a country ruled under dictatorship and then you'll understand the difference.

My point is that it is totally reasonable to accuse those pro-Communisms, but if you want something to change in Chinese politics, do not mess up with pro-Chinas, which is the majority part of Chinese. It's as simple as do not mess up with Boris Yeltsin if you want free Soviet Union in the 90s.

And yep, western media is now losing millions of "Boris Yeltsin" in China by showing meaningless sympathy to Dalai Lama, which helps the CCP to strength its power by getting Chinese on its side. That is just pathetic!

 

[dancing-loon]

CCP stands for Chinese Communist Party

Well, I suppose many westerners do not differentiate the concepts of the "CCP" and "China" as a mean of a country, but it is very comfortable to assume that Chinese who are "pro-China" may not be "pro-Communism", and me is an appealing example. Imagining yourself live in a country ruled under dictatorship and then you'll understand the difference.

My point is that it is totally reasonable to accuse those pro-Communisms, but if you want something to change in Chinese politics, do not mess up with pro-Chinas, which is the majority part of Chinese. It's as simple as do not mess up with Boris Yeltsin if you want free Soviet Union in the 90s.

And yep, western media is now losing millions of "Boris Yeltsin" in China by showing meaningless sympathy to Dalai Lama, which helps the CCP to strength its power by getting Chinese on its side. That is just pathetic!

Thank you very much, Hegel. I apologize for having missed putting that quote in. Here it is in retrofit:

Governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deducted from it.

Sorry, I'm not very good in history, and I hope you have patience with me.

Is the CCP the only party in China? I do know China is a communistic dictator state.
I admit to be one of the Westerners who does not differentiate between the country China and their Communist Party. To me China is a communist country - Period!
So, are you saying most Chinese are Chinese first, and only by government pressure Communists? OR can the Chinese people choose not to join the communist party, and simply be ordinary Chinese citizens?

About Tibet and the Dalai Lama I must read up on, I can not expect you to explain everything to me. If you come back another day I might be able to participate in your discussion. Now I must go to bed and get some sleep!;-)

One more thing,... what about your name Hegel? Is he perhaps one of your favourite philosophers? Please, tell me about it. I know him only by name.

 

[hegel325]

Hi, dancing-loon,

I have to go now...Add my MSN: hegel325@hotmail.com, and I will explain it to you the other day

 

[MikeyDB]

Dancing_Loon

Hi sweetie...

Hegel is one of my favorite's. Heidegger and Kant, Kierkegaard and Hegel have entertained me for decades.

 

[dancing-loon]

Dancing_Loon

Hi sweetie...

Hegel is one of my favorite's. Heidegger and Kant, Kierkegaard and Hegel have entertained me for decades.

That's nice to know, mein Schaetzchen!!!:lol: My limited education did not include philosophy.:-(

Perhaps our new member, Hegel235, is also a Hegel admirer!

 

[MikeyDB]

Dancing_Loon

Network glitches can drop data and corrupt information, sometimes it seems with the mysterious hand of some agency at work or whatever, but contentious networks with high volumes of traffic are frequently subject to dropped data... I've had entire contributions disappear!

Keep at it my Liebchen ...(sorry about my German spelling...

 

[dancing-loon]

I am trying to educate myself a little about this Chinese/Tibet problem. On the first try I got this site:
'Dump the Dalai Lama, or else…'

“India cannot keep China and the Dalai Lama simultaneously,” says a April 7 commentary carried by China’s official news agency, Xinhua.
The brief commentary went on to say that the Indian government was under pressure from various social and political groups on the Tibetan issue, and it would find it difficult to play host to the Tibetan government in-exile while maintaining good relations with China.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14650753
---------------------------------------------------------------
a) the Dalai Lama is the Tibetan government in exile?
b) why can he not go back to Tibet?
c) do the Tibetan not want him OR does China not want him there?
d) Tibet is now ruled by China? Why? Was there a war?
e) If India shows support for Dalai Lama, then China gets upset, because China wants to keep Tibet under its control?

And yep, western media is now losing millions of "Boris Yeltsin" in China by showing meaningless sympathy to Dalai Lama, which helps the CCP to strength its power by getting Chinese on its side. That is just pathetic!

 

[dancing-loon]

obsolete!

 

[dancing-loon]

obsolete

 

[darkbeaver]

CCP stands for Chinese Communist Party

Well, I suppose many westerners do not differentiate the concepts of the "CCP" and "China" as a mean of a country, but it is very comfortable to assume that Chinese who are "pro-China" may not be "pro-Communism", and me is an appealing example. Imagining yourself live in a country ruled under dictatorship and then you'll understand the difference.

My point is that it is totally reasonable to accuse those pro-Communisms, but if you want something to change in Chinese politics, do not mess up with pro-Chinas, which is the majority part of Chinese. It's as simple as do not mess up with Boris Yeltsin if you want free Soviet Union in the 90s.

And yep, western media is now losing millions of "Boris Yeltsin" in China by showing meaningless sympathy to Dalai Lama, which helps the CCP to strength its power by getting Chinese on its side. That is just pathetic!

Boris Yeltsin was a brain dead drunk and a puppet of the west.

 

[Colpy]

So, I have another article from the news here:
China bends on Taiwan, why not Tibet?
from the April 17, 2008 edition

If Beijing can talk with Taiwan about ties, it can talk with the Dalai Lama about Tibet's future.
By refusing to talk to Tibet's Dalai Lama, China has set itself up for yet another protest of the Olympic torch run, this time in India. But in contrast, China's top leader held talks last Saturday with Taiwan's incoming vice president. Does that receptivity to negotiations give hope to Tibetans?
That depends on whether Beijing follows up on its breakthrough talks and apparent new goodwill with Taiwan, a "breakaway" island it regards as an official region of China as much as landlocked Tibet is in reality.
The Dalai Lama seeks only full autonomy for his people within Chinese rule while the newly elected leaders of Taiwan are happy with the island's ambiguous status as de facto independent but still officially part of "one China" (someday). Taiwan's president-elect, Ma Ying-jeou of the Nationalist Party, plans closer economic ties with the mainland and, unlike outgoing President Chen Shui-bian, won't agitate Beijing with moves toward official independence.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0417/p08s01-comv.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a greenhorn I am!!!:roll: I didn't even know that Taiwan belonged to China!
Could I say Taiwan and Tibet are break-away regions of China? Sort of like Chechnya from Russia?

So, Hegel is asking us here in the West not to support the Dalai Lama, because he is a terrorist and his fellow Tibetans are also terrorists?
That is dreadful to label them terrorists simply because they want their independence from China?
All I have to find out still is, did China at one time conquer Tibet?

Simple answer: Taiwan's right to self-determination is de facto garaunteed by the United States.........

Tibet's is not.

 

[dancing-loon]

Simple answer: Taiwan's right to self-determination is de facto garaunteed by the United States.........

Tibet's is not.

Thanks for your help, Colpy. Now I of course wonder what has the US to do with it?

 

[Zzarchov]

Taiwan is the original governing body of Modern China.

In a civil war the communists drove KMT forces to Taiwan, the KMT forces (Chinese National forces) were able to hold out there because the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army, the current communist chinese government on the mainland) didn't have a navy, and then an airforce, to get them off the province.

They still don't. Taiwan (the Republic of China) is allied with the USA, because it has been since WWII when it helped fight the Japanese (leading to its eventual downfall at the hands of the PLA).

Tibet was a seperate nation, as was Xinjiang ( before conquest- the East Turkistan Republic). After the Chinese Communist forces took the mainland, they invaded Tibet and Xinjiang, conquering both of them.

China was always more populous than these two nations, it wanted to the extra land to emmigrate too.

The new Chinese Colonies of Tibet and Xinjiang were then populated with waves of Han (the dominant ethinc group in China) settlers, alot like why there are so few natives in North America.

In Xinjiang for instance, the Uyghurs (the original residents) are now less than 50% of the population.

The unrest in Tibet (currently already shrank massively in size) is due to a new rail line allowing for the last bastion of Tibetan culture to be replaced with waves of Han Settlers and forcibly assimilated.


Huge portions of modern China is conquered other nations being colonized by waves of settlers.

 

[Colpy]

Thanks for your help, Colpy. Now I of course wonder what has the US to do with it?

The Americans supported Chiang Kai-Shek, the dictator of China, against Communist revolutionaries under Mao Tse-tung. When Chiang lost (in 1949), he fled with his followers to Taiwan.......which was considered by the USA to be the legitimate government of China for over 20 years after that date..........The communists could not move against the island of Taiwan simply because they were blocked by the US Navy.

When the USA finally recognized Red China, it promised Taiwan they would defend them against attack from the Chinese mainland.....and they still do so.

Surprizingly, Taiwan has developed into a reasonably healthy democracy.......worthy of defense against the Chinese.

 

[dancing-loon]

You guys are awesome, Colpy and Zzarkow! I thank you both very much for your kind help. Now I'm slowly developing a picture in my head about the situation in China.
Mr. Hegel probably thinks I live behind the moon!

 

[hegel325]

Taiwan is the original governing body of Modern China.

In a civil war the communists drove KMT forces to Taiwan, the KMT forces (Chinese National forces) were able to hold out there because the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army, the current communist chinese government on the mainland) didn't have a navy, and then an airforce, to get them off the province.

They still don't. Taiwan (the Republic of China) is allied with the USA, because it has been since WWII when it helped fight the Japanese (leading to its eventual downfall at the hands of the PLA).

Tibet was a seperate nation, as was Xinjiang ( before conquest- the East Turkistan Republic). After the Chinese Communist forces took the mainland, they invaded Tibet and Xinjiang, conquering both of them.

China was always more populous than these two nations, it wanted to the extra land to emmigrate too.

The new Chinese Colonies of Tibet and Xinjiang were then populated with waves of Han (the dominant ethinc group in China) settlers, alot like why there are so few natives in North America.

In Xinjiang for instance, the Uyghurs (the original residents) are now less than 50% of the population.

The unrest in Tibet (currently already shrank massively in size) is due to a new rail line allowing for the last bastion of Tibetan culture to be replaced with waves of Han Settlers and forcibly assimilated.


Huge portions of modern China is conquered other nations being colonized by waves of settlers.

So many questions at a time...dancing-loon

But believe me, Xinjiang had been a part of China in Han Dynasty, that was 2, 000 years ago(The official Chinese government of Xinjiang was established in 60 BC). Don't ever neglect the knowledge of Chinese history of an educated Chinese, we all know our 5, 000-year history way much better than you.

Oh, about the name, I am a Hegel's fan but I am not an expertise, the main reason of choosing it as a nick name is because it is cool and its spelling is simple...lol

 

[dancing-loon]

So many questions at a time...dancing-loon

But believe me, Xinjiang had been a part of China in Han Dynasty, that was 2, 000 years ago(The official Chinese government of Xinjiang was established in 60 BC). Don't ever neglect the knowledge of Chinese history of an educated Chinese, we all know our 5, 000-year history way much better than you.

Oh, about the name, I am a Hegel's fan but I am not an expertise, the main reason of choosing it as a nick name is because it is cool and its spelling is simple...lol

Hi, Hegel!!!
You are back?? Nice:smile:
Oh, I have no doubt you know your history better than I ever could or would!! But it would be good, if I knew a few basic facts.