Portrait of Insurgents

jimmoyer
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#1
You can scan for the bold print if you just want to quickly read this:



Meeting Iraq’s foreign insurgents
Cache of individual records leads U.S. military to reassess assumptions
By Karen DeYoung
The Washington Post
updated 1:52 a.m. ET, Mon., Jan. 21, 2008



Muhammad Ayn-al-Nas, a 26-year-old Moroccan, started his journey in Casablanca. After flying to Turkey and then to Damascus, he reached his destination in a small Iraqi border town on Jan. 31, 2007. He was an economics student back home, he told the al-Qaeda clerk who interviewed him on arrival. Asked what sort of work he hoped to do in Iraq, Nas replied: "Martyr."

Algerian Watsef Mussab, 29, who arrived in Iraq via Saudi Arabia and Syria, said he had come for combat. He complained that the Syrian smugglers who brought him to the border took his money, but he contributed what he had left to the insurgent cause -- a watch, a ring and an MP3 player.

Hanni al-Sagheer, a computer technician from Yemen and aspiring suicide volunteer, gave the clerk his home telephone number and also that of his brother.

Their stories are among the individual records of 606 foreign fighters who entered Iraq between August 2006 and August 2007. The cache of documents was discovered last fall by U.S. forces in the northern Iraqi town of Sinjar.

Some include pictures -- bearded men in a turban or kaffiyeh, some smiling and some scowling -- in addition to names and aliases, home countries, birthdays and dates of entry into Iraq. Many list their occupations at home, whether plumber, laborer, policeman, lawyer, soldier or teacher. There is a "massage specialist," a "weapons merchant," a few "unemployed" and many students.

The youngest was 16 when he crossed into Iraq; the oldest was 54. Most expressed interest in a suicide mission.

The records are "one of the deepest reservoirs of information we've ever obtained of the network going into Iraq," according to a U.S. official closely familiar with intelligence on the insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Reassessment
Analyzed and made public last month by the Army's Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, the documents have led the U.S. military in Iraq to reassess some of its earlier assumptions about the insurgent group and those who carry out most of the suicide missions that are its signature method of attack.

Suicide attacks by the Sunni group against Shiite targets sparked the sectarian violence that swept Iraq in 2006 and the first half of last year. Al-Qaeda in Iraq carried out more than 4,500 attacks against civilians in 2007, killing 3,870 and wounding nearly 18,000, the military announced yesterday.

Based on the Sinjar records, U.S. military officials in Iraq said they now think that nine out of 10 suicide bombers have been foreigners, compared with earlier estimates of 75 percent. Similarly, they assess that 90 percent of foreign fighters entering Iraq during the one-year period ending in August came via Syria, a greater proportion than previously believed.

Although there is no way of knowing how many of the total entrants the 606 recorded individuals represent, officials said Sinjar was a primary entrance point. Its importance increased as Iraq's Anbar province -- farther south and bordering Saudi Arabia and Jordan -- became more difficult for foreigners to cross.

"We also adjusted our analysis [to say that] more North Africans were foreign terrorists than previously assessed," said Col. Steven A. Boylan, spokesman for Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq.

Although Saudi Arabia was by far the most common country of origin of foreign fighters, with about 40 percent of the total, a surprising share -- 19 percent -- came from Libya. Overall, about 40 percent were North African.


Petraeus has said that the number of foreign fighters traveling through Syria to Iraq has dropped by as much as half since the summer, to as few as 50 each month. Military officials describe the Sunni insurgents as on the run. But based on the Sinjar documents, Boylan said, the military has concluded that its baseline of foreign entrees, beginning in August 2006, was about 10 percent too low.

The State Department's counterterrorism chief, retired Army Lt. Gen. Dell L. Dailey, has referred to the Sinjar documents in ongoing conversations with Arab and North African governments about their efforts to stem the flow of foreign fighters going to Iraq.
The West Point center's analysis notes that the home towns and regions listed by many fighters correlate with areas of high insurgent activity in the Arab world. More than half the Libyans came from in or around the coastal cities of Darnah and Benghazi. Both are long associated with the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which in November officially affiliated itself with the global al-Qaeda network headed by Osama bin Laden.

Most of the Libyans traveled through Egypt on their way to Syria, and further analysis is being done on places of origin and travel routes.

‘Foreign terrorist nexus’

The records are also a bonanza for the National Counterterrorism Center in McLean, which maintains the nation's massive database on individuals with a "foreign terrorist nexus." Russ Travers, the NCTC's deputy director, declined to discuss specific data but said that "there is no question that the more information we get, the more we can pull the thread on who is connected to whom."

Beyond their importance in understanding the big picture, the documents -- now posted in Arabic and English on the Combating Terrorism Center's Web site -- provide a riveting portrait of the people behind the numbers, and a window into the personnel practices of al-Qaeda in Iraq.

"These documents tell us more about AQI than they do about Iraq," said Brian Fishman, an associate at the West Point center and co-author of its Sinjar analysis. "When you've got hundreds . . . entering the country with different skill sets and different intentions, you have to build a bureaucracy to use your resources efficiently.

"I think we made a mistake in assuming that al-Qaeda, because it's a terrorist organization, doesn't need to organize itself the way other large organizations do. They have a human resources problem; they have to manage people."

Al-Qaeda's holidays, salary grades
Al-Qaeda has a track record of good documentation, he said, adding that "Osama bin Laden was a businessman before he was a terrorist."

Fishman offered an example from among the many captured al-Qaeda documents in the center's database -- an employment contract between the group and terrorist recruits in Afghanistan in the late 1990s. In addition to a definition of the organization, religious duties and a loyalty pledge, it includes a list of official "company" holidays and salary grades.

Married fighters were to be allotted time off every three weeks and round-trip tickets to their country of origin every two years, although al-Qaeda retained the right to deny vacation dates "in certain cases." Vacation requests were to be submitted 2 1/2 months in advance. Married fighters received higher salaries than bachelors -- including a bonus for every newborn -- but unmarried fighters were entitled to more vacation time.

The extent of al-Qaeda in Iraq's ties to the wider al-Qaeda network has long been a subject of debate within the U.S. intelligence community and military. Although its membership is overwhelmingly Iraqi, it has been led by foreigners with direct ties to al-Qaeda central, which has been based in Pakistan since being driven from Afghanistan in 2001.

Some of the early Sinjar documents carry the seal of the Mujaheddin Shura Council, an umbrella organization for Sunni insurgent organizations in Iraq created in January 2006 by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a bin Laden associate who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq. Most of the later records are imprinted with the insignia of the Islamic State of Iraq, declared in October 2006 after Zarqawi's death. Those documents provide far more comprehensive information.

Diverse responses
There is no indication of individual motives, but recruits were asked how they had made initial contact with travel "coordinators." Responses ranged from friends and family members to someone "in the mosque" or "a brother who came back from Iraq."
Although answers to many questions were left blank, most recruits said they carried identification -- a passport, birth certificate or driver's license. Some helpfully noted that their documents were "clean" or "not burnt," indicating they did not appear on any watch list. Contributions to the insurgency, including funds that totaled several thousand dollars in some cases, were duly recorded.

Based on information solicited in the longer Islamic State of Iraq forms, the Syrian role in the traffic appeared more that of entrepreneur than ideological partner and seemed to be a source of concern and suspicion for al-Qaeda in Iraq. Entrants were asked for names and descriptions of Syrians they had come into contact with, and were asked how they were treated. Many responded that the Syrians had demanded exorbitant sums of money, often exactly the amount the entrants were carrying.

Many of the forms include telephone numbers. According to Fishman, "we called a lot of them and they didn't work" or "just rang and rang." But a Swedish newspaper noticed on the center's Web site that one man, a Tunisian who gave only an alias, listed his country of residence as Sweden and supplied a telephone number in the Stockholm suburb of Rinkeby. A government registry indicated that he was married, with two children.

When a reporter from Svenska Dagbladet called the number, the newspaper reported early this month, a man who identified himself as a cousin said that Abu Mua'az was not there. He, his wife and older brother, the man said, "were currently overseas and unavailable."
Last edited by jimmoyer; Jan 21st, 2008 at 10:13 AM..
 
MikeyDB
#2
A nexus of foreign terror.... Brought to you by the United States of America.
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#3
Hey MikeyDB !!!

Whatever the American bumbling has exascerbated (not caused) it would do well for us not to ignore the culture that spawns these martyrs waiting and looking for any excuse, n'est pas ?

I'd like to warn against the fad of the threat du jour which is also real of the Americans living in their bubble, but also to know that the source of evil is not one place, but a multitude of origins, an evil shared by all, not just the exclusive province of Americans.

I thought the article was interesting for its data portrait.
 
MikeyDB
#4
Hey Jim!

I spent a good deal of time writing a response and this ****ing site timed out so to hell with it.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#5
Insurgent.... Are they against their own homelands or some occupant?

Woof!
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#6
lone wolf posted:Insurgent.... Are they against their own homelands or some occupant?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it's a little more complicated. The native Sunni Iraqis don't quite appreciate Morrocans and Libyans and Syrians and Saudis coming in and killing Iraqis or their own tribal family leaders, do they ? Of course, nobody really likes the mistakes the Americans are bumbling through.
 
Toro
Avatar
#7
The Iraqis have turned against the foreign al-Qaeda fighters. Their goal was to instigate as much chaos as possible. But Iraqis are tired of seeing foreigner al-Qaeda setting off car bombs near mosques and in public markets. That's why many Sunni tribal leaders are now working with the Americans to hunt these guys down. Its also why Osama bin Laden condemned Sunnis who were working with the Americans in his latest video.
 
MikeyDB
#8
Insurgency in Iraq

Jim

Why didn’t the United States and Britain take half of Saudi Arabia and establish the state of Israel there? Well the answer to that seems obvious enough right? The U.S. didn’t care that the Saudi regime was de-humanizing women and punishing women for being raped…just keep that oil coming to feed our military industrial complex.

The U.S. doesn’t mind folk like Pinochet and Suharto or oppressive regimes until they need a “reason” to flex their military might and garner support at the election polls.

Makes perfect sense, so long as the king and his court are enjoying tons of cash there’s little risk they’d be interested in exploring socialism as an alternative now is there? Besides Jews claim that their Holy cities in Palestine are the foundation and fabric of the Judaic substance and Palestine ruled by the Ottoman Empire but defeated by the British during the First World War was the only acceptable territory. Canada, the United States, Australia, signatories to the U.N. resolution creating the state of Israel were safely and happily distantly removed from the scene and never felt the simmering hatred of the surrounding regions for the actions that were taken by the U.N. in taking their land and establishing an Israeli state in the middle of their territory. The state of Israel squats under the protective wings of the great American eagle with its trillions of dollars available to Israel to say nothing of the implicit threat of the worlds most active if not largest military machine. The lessons of Korea and IndoChina, the practices of “regime-change” and establishment of oppressive dictatorships like Pinochet and Suharto send a clear message.

With overt military action rendered impractical what alternative do the people most wronged have? The turmoil in the Middle East and the genesis of insurgency and terrorism belong to the United States and Britain the first terrorists who took land that didn’t belong to them, and under threat of violence established and maintain the state of Israel.

No terrorist ever appeared spontaneously from the earth for no reason. Pol Pot was a terrorist that seized an opportunity. Idi Amin was a terrorist with delusions of grandeur. I’ve already mentioned Pinochet and Suharto, terrorist who claimed the stamp of apporval from the United States of America.

Examine all the terrrorist organizations everywhere. Do the terrorists in Ireland have legitimate grievances and the absence of a military machine capable of throwing the British out of Ireland? Does the ETA have an enormous military that can re-take their lands from the Spanish? When a people are moved to terrorism (see Oka, Ipperwash, Caledonia) and there exists no alternative under law or force of arms equal to the oppressor, it seems fairly obvious why terrorism takes place.

The choice by some to withold funds belonging to the Palestinians because their election didn’t produce the outcome sought by Israel and America served to illustrate once again that “democracy” is only “democracy” when the United States decides it is. And if that process of situational democracy that accepts Israeli torture and terrorism decides that it can wage wars and invaisions based on lies and exaggeration….what alternative do other nations and people have?

The precusor to Iraqi insurgency and the menu of insurgents you’ve provided begin and end at the door of the Whitehouse. From CIA vetted Bin Laden to private “security forces”…mercenaries…..it’s the United States in action as it’s been in action all over the world.
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#9
MikeyDB, the origins of the present state of Palestine and Israel are a little more involved.

The facts appear to hurt the arguments of both sides.

The British tried to prevent the illegal flood tide of Jewish immigrants.

At the time many Arabs were leaving because of no jobs.

The jews did become terrorist in '48 under threat of extinction and so they beat the Arab threats to the punch. And so the Jews became what they ran away from the first place, the pogroms.

After the Jews made the land arable (previously it was completely worthless under Arab stewardship and Ottoman stewardship) there was much desire for the right of return.

This is just a start.

There's enough posted above here to make both sides not so confident in their rightness.
 
MikeyDB
#10
I'm still not certain we're on the same page here Jim. Are you suggesting that the actions of the British and the United States weren't formative in creating the situation that's come to be known as the "Middle East"? It may very well be that Palestinians didn't use their land wisely ...that's their problem. The problem the world has faced and is facing now in Israel and Palestine and Iraq has much more to do with interference from outside of those nations.... Doesn't it!?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyerView Post

lone wolf posted:Insurgent.... Are they against their own homelands or some occupant?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it's a little more complicated. The native Sunni Iraqis don't quite appreciate Morrocans and Libyans and Syrians and Saudis coming in and killing Iraqis or their own tribal family leaders, do they ? Of course, nobody really likes the mistakes the Americans are bumbling through.

Notice how Jim wants to characterize state terrorism with forgivable "mistakes" just well intentioned bumbling, what crap Jim. Go ahead paint Veitnam and El Salvadore and Yugoslavia as "mistakes" when they are plainly and indefencably "state terrorism". Mistakes are forgivable aren't they Jim. You defend genocide and theft and coruption, no wonder you're a disappointed republican, it's only because you recognize the disapproval of your moral superiors.
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#12
You summarized it well, MikeyDB.

I'd only emphasis for historical accuracy how hard and tough the Brits were in taking measures against the illegal Jewish immigrants to the point of keeping the immigrant ships at sea, stranded and starving. But that's just an aside.

And also it is no small matter that the Ottoman and arab culture were piss-poor stewards of the land in creating an economic pie for its own people. You shove that too deftly aside.

But overall you summarize my points correctly.

But your post pushes me to the point that I think no value is gained by shoving the Jew out of Palestine. It will, in the end, favor no one.

Just look at the loss of jobs in Gaza after the Israelis pulled out. Study that piece of recent history as far as job creation goes.
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#13
Holy bejeezus, Dark Beaverish !!!

Let me think about what you said. I will answer you. Depends on work today.

But quick response: No doubt you've exposed some hypocrisy on my part. Does it tell the whole truth ? I dunno. It tells enough to you that I suspect it blinds you to some other truths that lie parallel to the one you hold.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Notice how Jim wants to characterize state terrorism with forgivable "mistakes" just well intentioned bumbling, what crap Jim. Go ahead paint Veitnam and El Salvadore and Yugoslavia as "mistakes" when they are plainly and indefencably "state terrorism". Mistakes are forgivable aren't they Jim. You defend genocide and theft and coruption, no wonder you're a disappointed republican, it's only because you recognize the disapproval of your moral superiors.

The biggest "mistake" the United States keeps making is in it's implied belief that time started in 1776. Vietnamese history went back over two thousand years. History in the Middle East goes back a little farther. Though the civilizations who exist now may appear backward and primative by today standards, what respect does the upstart invader show for societies whose dynamics have spanned millenia?

Woof!
 
MikeyDB
#15
I agree Jim it's a helluva mess but what we need to have is a formula for peace that works for everyone. If any formula/strategy is available it will require concessions on both sides and I don't think that radical Islamists or radical Zionists are prepared to give an inch. There's been too much water under the bridge and the manipulation of state economics by remote agents like America and others may now allow a climate of peace to be cultivated when there is so much "face" involved....

Terrible situation.
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#16
The biggest "mistake" the United States keeps making is in it's implied belief that time started in 1776. Vietnamese history went back over two thousand years. History in the Middle East goes back a little farther. Though the civilizations who exist now may appear backward and primative by today standards, what respect does the upstart invader show for societies whose dynamics have spanned millenia?
-------------------posted by the lonewolf--------------------------------------------------------

I've always despised that argument for 2 reasons.

1. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
Do you think so little of their abilities ? Or do you value the Jungian archetypes of universal human desires so little.

2. The demographics of youth.
You know as well as I do, how little the young know of any history, let alone recent history in the past two decades. Also if you examine how young demographicly Palestine is, the tired people over 40 who learned a few lessons don't have a chance !!!


To your great defense, lone wolf, I would say all societies live in a bubble of their own myths, and so America is an ugly bull in a China shop. We have forgotten the higher standards we brag about holding ourselves.
 
jimmoyer
#17
Exclusively focusing on insurgents or occupiers allows the ideologist to be half blind.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyerView Post

The biggest "mistake" the United States keeps making is in it's implied belief that time started in 1776. Vietnamese history went back over two thousand years. History in the Middle East goes back a little farther. Though the civilizations who exist now may appear backward and primative by today standards, what respect does the upstart invader show for societies whose dynamics have spanned millenia?
-------------------posted by the lonewolf--------------------------------------------------------

I've always despised that argument for 2 reasons.

1. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
Do you think so little of their abilities ?

Whose abilities?

Or do you value the Jungian archetypes of universal human desires so little.

Sorry. Not familiar with Jung or his psychological doctrines.

2. The demographics of youth.
You know as well as I do, how little the young know of any history, let alone recent history in the past two decades.

We are not speaking of kids here. My concern is of a nation of 200+ years who demonstrates disrespect for the culture and traditions of people upon whose soil its representatives trespass, yet into whose homes and hearts they expect to be welcomed.

US most likely is not the first nation to have violated a very long and much-changed existence - but it is the latest and the one who is there today.

Also if you examine how young demographicly Palestine is, the tired people over 40 who learned a few lessons don't have a chance !!!

Seems to me some version of both Palestine and Israel exist in the Old Testement of a Book right wing America is dangerously close to adopting as the new Constitution.

To your great defense, lone wolf, I would say all societies live in a bubble of their own myths, and so America is an ugly bull in a China shop. We have forgotten the higher standards we brag about holding ourselves.

Woof!
Last edited by lone wolf; Jan 21st, 2008 at 10:11 PM..
 
jimmoyer
Avatar
#19
Also if you examine how young demographicly Palestine is, the tired people over 40 who learned a few lessons don't have a chance !!!

Seems to me some version of both Palestine and Israel exist in the Old Testement of a Book right wing America is dangerously close to adopting as the new Constitution.
----------------------------------Lone Wolf's answer to my post above----------------------------


You must have missed the word demographics. We're not talking how old a history of a people are here. We're talking about the present composition of the Palestinian population. It is composed of a huge percentage of people under 40. The 20 years old dominating this Palestinian political landscape little remember two decades ago.
What good does an ancient history do for you if most of the population is unschooled in its own history ? Here in America, 30 some years after our own revolution, our forefathers, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson lamented the amnesia in the population about our own origins. You think this historical amnesia is not true in any nation ?

Demographics. It more than explains why a population never ceases to tire of violence.
Historical amnesia of a dominant population of 20 year olds.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#20
In the case of Palestine, on a personal level, historical amnesia matters little when you've grown up in the shadow of a blue star and terrorized by soldiers who will beat you for grumbling or spitting on the sidewalk.

Woof!
 
CDNBear
Avatar
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

Insurgency in Iraq

Jim

Why didn’t the United States and Britain take half of Saudi Arabia and establish the state of Israel there? Well the answer to that seems obvious enough right?

Jeez, ya sorta cancelled out your own arguement right there.

Cuz had the US been smart enough to do as you indicate, they could have given the displaced Juden the oil patch and stifled much of the BS over the last 60 years. Non?

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

In the case of Palestine, on a personal level, historical amnesia matters little when you've grown up in the shadow of a blue star and terrorized by soldiers who will beat you for grumbling or spitting on the sidewalk.

Woof!

 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
#22
RAWA: U.S. and Her Fundamentalist Stooges are the Main Human Rights Violators In Afghanistan -- -- -- Written by RAWA Saturday, 15 December 2007 The US and her allies tried to legitimize their military occupation of Afghanistan under the banner of "bringing freedom and democracy for the Afghan people". But as we have experienced in the past three decades, in regard to the fate of our people, the US government first of all considers her own political and economic interests and has empowered and equipped the most traitorous, anti-democratic, misogynist and corrupt fundamentalist gangs in Afghanistan.
In the past few years, for a thousand times the lies of US claims in the so-called "War on terror" were uncovered. By relying on the criminal bands of the Northern Alliance, the US made a game of values like democracy, human rights, women’s rights etc. thus disgracing our mournful nation. The US created a government from those people responsible for massacres in Pul-e-Charkhi, Dasht-e-Chamtala, Kapisa, Karala, Dasht-e-Lieli, 65,000 Kabulis and tens of mass graves across the country. Now the US tries to include infamous killers like Mullah Omer and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar into the government, which will be another big hypocrisy in the "war against terror".
The reinstatement of the Northern Alliance to power crushed the hopes of our people for freedom and prosperity into desperation and proved that for the Bush administration, defeating terrorism so that our people can be happy, have no significance at all. The US administration plays a funny anti-Taliban game and pretends that a super power is unable to defeat a small, marginalized and medieval-minded gang which is actually her own product. But our people found by experience in the past few years that the US doesn’t want to defeat the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, because then they will have no excuse to stay in Afghanistan and work towards the realization of its economical, political and strategic interests in the region.
After about seven years, there is no peace, human rights, democracy and reconstruction in Afghanistan. On the contrary, the destitution and suffering of our people has doubled everyday. Our people, and even our unfortunate children, fall victim to the Jehadis’ infighting (Baghlan incident), the Taliban’s untargeted blasts and the US/NATO’s non-stop bombardments. The Northern Alliance blood-suckers, who are part of Karzai’s team and have key government posts, continue to be the main and the most serious obstacle towards the establishment of peace and democracy in Afghanistan. The existence of tens of illegal private security companies run by these mafia bands are enough to realize their sinister intentions and the danger they pose.
Human rights violations, crime, and corruption have reached their peak, so much so that Mr. Karzai is forced to make friendly pleas to the ministers and members of the parliament, asking them to "keep some limits"! Accusations about women being raped in prisons were so numerous that even a pro-warlord woman in the parliament had no choice but to acknowledge them.
Rabbani, Khalili, Massoud, Sayyaf, Fahim, Ismael and other criminals for the sake of being "ISI" and "VEVAK" agents could become "leaders" in the early 90’s, invited their god-father G
--
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Jeez, ya sorta cancelled out your own arguement right there.

Cuz had the US been smart enough to do as you indicate, they could have given the displaced Juden the oil patch and stifled much of the BS over the last 60 years. Non?

Quoting -- In the case of Palestine, on a personal level, historical amnesia matters little when you've grown up in the shadow of a blue star and terrorized by soldiers who will beat you for grumbling or spitting on the sidewalk.

Woof!

...'course if you know anything different, Bear, I know you'll tell us all about it

Woof!
 
CDNBear
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

...'course if you know anything different, Bear, I know you'll tell us all about it

Woof!

Would there be a point?
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Would there be a point?

Was there to the rolly eyes?

Woof!
 
CDNBear
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Was there to the rolly eyes?

Woof!

Yep.

Meow!
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Yep.

Meow!

Congrats, Bear. Such devotion. While other bruins are wasting their time in hibernation, I see you've picked up a second language. Cat is so hard a tongue to master.

Woof!
 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
#28
insurgent= 1/ rising in active revolt 2/ rebel hence----ency oxford dictionary

The OP is a clear attempt to mischaracterize legal rebels. It is commonly employed by the Anglo-American invaders to deflect that legality which is an inherant human right of resistance to armed aggression and illegle occupation. It is almost exclusively used to describe freedom fighters who legaly oppose the occupation forces of the Anglo-American Empire, ffor the simple reason that they know 80% of the dummys who read or hear the word have no idea what it means and will not look it up to arrive at the meaning of the word REBEL which has a counter affect to the coalition. You can also see that Jim has taken pains to mislead us entirely about the nationality of the rebels/insurgents by listing non-Iraqis only, when in fact forigne nationals who have joined the rebellion, that's right rebellion, are a very small percentage of the actual rebel force who are overwhelmingly Iraqi patriots fighting for the independance of thier country, that has been destroyed and raped by the Anglo-American murderers and thieves. Deconstruction of propaganda is revealing. In this case Jim clearly hopes to remove any empathy for rebels by simply calling them insurgents thus obscuring thier legitamacy and smoothing the way for further denegration.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyerView Post

Also if you examine how young demographicly Palestine is, the tired people over 40 who learned a few lessons don't have a chance !!!

Seems to me some version of both Palestine and Israel exist in the Old Testement of a Book right wing America is dangerously close to adopting as the new Constitution.
----------------------------------Lone Wolf's answer to my post above----------------------------


You must have missed the word demographics. We're not talking how old a history of a people are here. We're talking about the present composition of the Palestinian population. It is composed of a huge percentage of people under 40. The 20 years old dominating this Palestinian political landscape little remember two decades ago.
What good does an ancient history do for you if most of the population is unschooled in its own history ? Here in America, 30 some years after our own revolution, our forefathers, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson lamented the amnesia in the population about our own origins. You think this historical amnesia is not true in any nation ?

Demographics. It more than explains why a population never ceases to tire of violence.
Historical amnesia of a dominant population of 20 year olds.

Actually most Palestinians are far better educated than the average North American, especially the average American. Jim wants us to believe that the Palestinians between 20 and 40 really have no idea of the history of thier people or the events of the last 60 years, this is very dishonest as it is a certainty that those people know exactly every murderous act and the source and the dates and the enemy of every day of that long slow genocide. Jim would also by his poor reasoning have us believe that the Isreali Jew is by the same age discrimination idicated by Jim to be ignorant of thier past. This is also a tactic used by the propagandist to separate a people from a cause and portray them as deranged malcontents who engage in mindless acts of indescriminant violence for no reason other than pure ignorance, when in fact they have every right to engage in armed struggle for thier lives and freedom against a brutal occupation force conducting genocide and ingaged in the annexation of Palestinian land and the destruction of Palestinian civil society.
This type of propaganda is very effective with the average brain dead American who is extremely susceptable to it by virtue of decades of American pulp media and government lies.
There are no more heavily propagandized people than Americans with the exception of North Koreans, both populations have been subjected to heavy and incessant misinformation and substandard education for decades. This is why it has been so easy to make Americans the horrific victims of thier own government and ruling wealthy elite class, and for the most part they are blissfully ignorant of the facts of life or the wider world. While historical amnesia prevails in America it does not prevail in Palestine and never will.
 
CDNBear
Avatar
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Congrats, Bear. Such devotion. While other bruins are wasting their time in hibernation, I see you've picked up a second language. Cat is so hard a tongue to master.

Woof!

Thanx for noticing Lone...

Not to many have noticed how good my tongue when it comes to cat.
 

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