Reviewing Idea Of Nation-states

[jimmoyer]

TomG posted this back on
February 8th, 2007, 03:44 PM
I’m not sure it’s natural at all for humans to live in mass society nation states. Nations don’t have
conflicts because they are, well just nations—constructs that only exist in the mind. National leaders have illusions of advantage or disadvantage that frequently produce conflict and war. It’s leaders who have conflicts, perhaps because they believe they lead us and have duties and obligations.

To individuals or small bands advantage has immediacy.

We know what we face.

We can see what another has that may benefit us, and we also know the potential of injury or death for ourselves if we seek to take what another has.

We temper what we want since the cost of it is immediate and apparent. However, we know nothing of immediacy in our national lives.

Our individual advantage has all the reality of images of dancing light on phosphorescent screens or black marks machined on white paper. For that is how we participate in our national lives we consume that which has the same guarantee of reality as do fairy tales. Anything is possible in a fairy tale except that which can’t be imagined by the author. In fairy tales there are no guides for right and wrong and there are no reality checks. You just believe. In fairy taales. we allow our lives to be reduced to ‘Please tell me a story before I go to sleep.’ And who, you might ask, would tell those stories and why. Any what you might ask can we possible know of the tellers of stories whom we know only as dancing light or black marks. What can we possibly know of our leaders? What can we possible know of our advantage expressed through our national lives? We may as well dream it....

------------------------------------TomG------------------------------------------------

WOW !!

Incredibly insightful.

Absolutely interesting point.


This POST is a gem and worth discussing
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[MikeyDB]

But we do know.

We know that the political apparatus isn't interested in homogeneity, we know we hand license to the madarins who lie to our faces, take us to war for the benefit of the few, we know since governments are erected fascimilies of justice and equality populated by servants of greed and men who make their living twisting words into camouflage for truth.

We know and we accept it without hesitation.

 

[darkbeaver]

TomG mentioned fairy tales something I'v been intenting to study a bit more.

 

[jimmoyer]

If I could further elucidate TomG's 2 key phrases:

We temper what we want since the cost of it is immediate and apparent. However, we know nothing of immediacy in our national lives.

and :

Our individual advantage has all the reality of images of dancing light on phosphorescent screens or black marks machined on white paper. For that is how we participate in our national lives we consume that which has the same guarantee of reality as do fairy tales. Anything is possible in a fairy tale except that which can’t be imagined by the author. In fairy tales there are no guides for right and wrong and there are no reality checks. You just believe. In fairy taales...


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What does TomG mean here ?

He means that we don't understand how we participate in the nation-state story.

We understand the idea of "immediacy" in our personal lives. We see the interaction between our friends directly face to face. We smile. They smile back. We insult. So do they. We play racquetball and they play. We kiss our loved ones. They beam. We shake hands physically.

We are also "able to temper what we want since the cost is immediate and apparent" as TomG says.

But there is none of this physicality or directness in our nation-state participation.
We experience nation-state stories like reading a fairy tale. There is no directness except through the interface of a newspaper or this computer screen or the television.

And so we cannot really guage the effect on ourselves.

It's a very subtle point, with far reaching implications.

 

[jimmoyer]

Okay...one more shot at this concept of Nation-states sponsored by an old TomG post.

I need a "hook"

Here goes:

1. I’m not sure it’s natural at all for humans to live in mass society nation states. Nations don’t have conflicts because they are, well just nations—constructs that only exist in the mind.


2.We temper what we want since the cost of it is immediate and apparent. However, we know nothing of immediacy in our national lives.

ERGO:

We can see what another has that may benefit us, and we also know the potential of injury or death for ourselves if we seek to take what another has.

We temper what we want since the cost of it is immediate and apparent. However, we know nothing of immediacy in our national lives.

Our individual advantage has all the reality of images of dancing light on phosphorescent screens or black marks machined on white paper. For that is how we participate in our national lives we consume that which has the same guarantee of reality as do fairy tales. Anything is possible in a fairy tale except that which can’t be imagined by the author.

 

[Northboy]

The Canadian persepective of nation state in my view is that our "Brand" is our flag....