#91
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
I'm glad to see something positive come out of Venezuela. 
Shut Up (about) Chavez
#92
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
If Venezuela was run by a dictator, would a popular vote defeat their leader?
I'm glad Chavez lost. His proposed changes would have concentrated too much power into an individual.
I agree with many of Chavez's socialist reforms.
Despite right wing, capitalist, military industrialist propaganda claims about socialism, socialism is not evil. In moderation it has benefits. Many great people have been socialist reformers.
Now that Chavez has made his contribution, hopefully he will choose to retire as Pesident and take up other pursuits.
Quote:
A very slim margin, but a victory for popular vote......Mr Chavez described the defeat as a "photo finish", and urged followers not to turn it into a point of conflict.
Correspondents say the opposition could barely hide their delight and that the victory will put a brake on Mr Chavez's self-styled "Socialist revolution".
Celebrations by the opposition began almost immediately in the capital, Caracas, with activists cheering, beeping car horns and waving flags.
"Venezuela won today, democracy won today, and I am sure that this victory for the Venezuelan people will have a very important impact in the rest of Latin America," Leopoldo Lopez, opposition mayor of Caracas' Chaqua municipality, told the BBC...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7124313.stm
I'm glad Chavez lost. His proposed changes would have concentrated too much power into an individual.
I agree with many of Chavez's socialist reforms.
Despite right wing, capitalist, military industrialist propaganda claims about socialism, socialism is not evil. In moderation it has benefits. Many great people have been socialist reformers.
Quote:
Other well known socialist reformers include Ghandi and Jesus....In a sense, King’s right-wing critics were more on target than many of his liberal supporters today: King was a radical. Unlike recently-retired Senator Jesse Helms and others alleged, however, King was never a Communist. His deep religious faith made any adherence to the materialist values of Marxist-Leninism impossible. He was, however, a democratic socialist, a Christian socialist, who firmly believed that meeting the basic needs of the poor was a higher priority than ensuring profit for the few. He could never accept the communist dictum that "the end justifies the means;" indeed, central to his beliefs was the recognition that the means and the ends are inseparable.
Quote has been trimmed
For, even as he moved to the left later in his life, he never wavered on his firm commitment to nonviolence. To King, nonviolence was actually more radical than violence, which simply perpetuated the oppression of one group against the other. He believed that nonviolence was not just a tactic nor was it just a personal ethos; it was both. This gave King, like Mohandas Gandhi, the stature of being both a great moral leader and a brilliant political strategist. He recognized that nonviolence was strategically the only realistic option for oppressed African-Americans to achieve justice as well as the fact that violence would simply polarize the races and make true justice and reconciliation impossible...
Now that Chavez has made his contribution, hopefully he will choose to retire as Pesident and take up other pursuits.
#93
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert
Its the standard Pavlovian response when the Lefties are getting pwnd.lol Liar.
Um, why has the conversation about Chavez turned into a conversation about Bush?
Conservative
#94
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
Now that the President for Life referendum is complete lets see what happens next. The rumble of US M-48 and Soviet T-55 tanks on the streets will tell who Chavez really is or the compliance with the wishes of the voters may just surface. I hope for the latter. I still think he is castigated by the US and its cronies due to his independent spirit and refusal to be "under the thumb" of the US and it the South American governments who have sold out to the US interests. Time will tell us won't it?
Last edited by normbc9; Dec 3rd, 2007 at 02:27 PM..Reason: fogotten word
Republican
#95
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
It's nice to see people thrilled about an exercise in democracy, Chavez wins no matter what. All he has to do is continue to suck air and enjoy ice-cream. It was a function of his power that allowed the exercise. The virus of grassroots socialism will multiply in the niegbourhoods in the co-ops in the clinics and schools. Dead or alive Chavez wins. haha
No Party Affiliation
#96
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
``Its the standard Pavlovian response when the Lefties are getting pwnd.``
Correction --- it is the righties who have been smashed to bits here on CC.
BTW, who's your war going on in Iraq?
Correction --- it is the righties who have been smashed to bits here on CC.
BTW, who's your war going on in Iraq?
#97
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one
Currently we can't tell if he's been defeated. If he leaves when his term is up, then you are correct, he has been defeated by this popular vote.If Venezuela was run by a dictator, would a popular vote defeat their leader?
This guy has a habit of deciding to ignore elections and declare himself ruler however, such as his own failed coup in the early 90's.
So, if goes back to old tricks and just continues to assert control after his term is up with his own private army (as he has done before) then we will know the truth.
Republican
#98
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
Remarkable interest in Bolivarian politics and grassroots democracy in Venezuellaia, whereas in the center of western Deep democracy no one has ever gotten to vote on questions of similar gravity, and very likely never will. It's also passing strange that forigne democracy is the main policy concern of the present administration while homeland security and OJ Simpson rule on the domestic front.
#99
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
Who's my war? ``Its the standard Pavlovian response when the Lefties are getting pwnd.``
Correction --- it is the righties who have been smashed to bits here on CC.
BTW, who's your war going on in Iraq?
I'm not at war with anyone.
Stay on topic. There is no war with Venezuela.
No Party Affiliation
#101
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
`` I'm not at war with anyone.``
!!!!But I thought you were Illuminati!!!!
!!!!But I thought you were Illuminati!!!!
No Party Affiliation
#103
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by s243a
I'm glad to see something positive come out of Venezuela.
And it proves Venezuela is a democracy unlike Pakistan!
IMPEACH MUSHARRAF!!!
#104
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
Well, not at war at this very moment.`` I'm not at war with anyone.``
!!!!But I thought you were Illuminati!!!!
No Party Affiliation
#105
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 3rd, 2007
``Well, not at war at this very moment.``
Ha! You don't fool me --- it's just a clever disguise.
!!!IMPEACH THE ILLUMINATI!!!
Ha! You don't fool me --- it's just a clever disguise.
!!!IMPEACH THE ILLUMINATI!!!
No Party Affiliation
#106
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 4th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
But ... but ... but the topic isn't about Bush: it's about shutting up about Chavez and people just don't seem to want to. Ever read the list of false arguments? It includes things such as sidetracking the real topic.``why has the conversation about Chavez turned into a conversation about Bush?``
It's the proper thing to do in order to give balance to the warped right wing views which are so lacking in logic and common sense.
Anyway, I personally don't give a hoot what sort of gov't anyone has, the majority of them prove to be idiotic whether rightie or leftie. So, really whether it's Bush or Chavez, they ain't worth a pinch of coonsh|t in my books.
Last edited by L Gilbert; Dec 4th, 2007 at 12:08 AM..
#107
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 4th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
And it proves Venezuela is a democracy unlike Pakistan!
IMPEACH MUSHARRAF!!!
In a sense all dictatorships are partly democracies because in theory they can be over turned by revolution. I'd rather be happy for the the Venezuelans for this expression of democracy then bicker about how fair the electoral process in Venezuela is.
#108
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 4th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
If you can find us!``Well, not at war at this very moment.``
Ha! You don't fool me --- it's just a clever disguise.
!!!IMPEACH THE ILLUMINATI!!!
#110
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 5th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by Toro
Stay on topic? HA! Stay on topic and admit faults? Failures?Who's my war?
I'm not at war with anyone.
Stay on topic. There is no war with Venezuela.
When things get tough...deflect my friend. Bring up Bush, Iraq, Pakistan...spin the thread into another thread. That is the plan.
No Party Affiliation
#111
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 5th, 2007
Chavez did not interfere in any way with the voting process.
Can the same be said for right wing hero and Bush's ally Musharraf???
Can the same be said for right wing hero and Bush's ally Musharraf???
#112
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 5th, 2007
Actually threats of intimidation and violence were still leveled at Chavez, but no one bothered following up on them since they won anyways.
No Party Affiliation
#113
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 5th, 2007
`` threats of intimidation and violence were still leveled at Chavez``
And how would Republicans Bush and Musharraf have responded??
With brutal violence!
And how would Republicans Bush and Musharraf have responded??
With brutal violence!
#114
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 6th, 2007
Uhm...
No, Chavez is the one who shoots protestors in the street and stages violent military coups. Say what you want about Bush (and there is plenty to say), but he's never done that.
No, Chavez is the one who shoots protestors in the street and stages violent military coups. Say what you want about Bush (and there is plenty to say), but he's never done that.
No Party Affiliation
#115
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 6th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov
Bush has just killed about a million Iraqis during the war he started there.....Your hate for Chavez won't help that...Uhm...
No, Chavez is the one who shoots protestors in the street and stages violent military coups. Say what you want about Bush (and there is plenty to say), but he's never done that.
#116
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 6th, 2007
Is it possible that Hugo Chavez's giant ego really thought there was no way he'd lose ?
Strutting for hours on commandeered television time on all the networks in Venezuela seems self-love knows no bounds in this on-going homage to solopsism.
Strutting for hours on commandeered television time on all the networks in Venezuela seems self-love knows no bounds in this on-going homage to solopsism.
#117
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 6th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver
Shut Up (About) Chavez
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:
By Paul Buchheit
11/24/07 "ICH" -- -- It gets tiresome to hear the one-sided media coverage of Hugo Chavez. Yes, he’s authoritarian. He’s also abrasive, arrogant, stubborn, and all too human. But he knows what happened to leaders in Iran and Guatemala and Chile and Haiti over the past half-century when they tried to defy the western world by nationalizing oil and other industries. He’s influenced by the memory of the US-backed attempt to depose him in 2002. And he can see the effects of unregulated multinational companies in Nigeria, where in 2004 80% of the revenue from the oil industry went to only 1% of the population, and only 2% of Shell Oil’s employees were from the local population.
Chavez has alienated the wealthy, the business establishment, thousands of upper-class student protestors, and, perhaps worst of all for him,...
Chavez is the best leader in the world, he is saying a big ".G.o f.u..ck .you.r.." to the us-coorporations arrogance i would certainly give my life for a guy like that.
In canada they have politiciens who are ready to bend over for the US coorporation,where the people has absolutly no say,quite irronic, and most people here are talking chavez being a dictators, hilarious i should say.
He has done pretty nasty things, however he has done it for the poor(majority), where they had no id, no land no house, that is greath, with chavez, this is old story.
Just by seeing here, those who still think chavez is bad, and harper is nice, i can already see, what kind of people you are........
So thank you very much , darkbeaver to bring this to us.
#118
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 6th, 2007
Again we "pee-ons" are offerred the wisdom of false choices.
Why must it be the Capitalists in Nigeria, or the strutting pomp of a Venezuelan leader ?
Meet the new boss, just like the old boss ???
Won't be fooled again ???
Why must it be the Capitalists in Nigeria, or the strutting pomp of a Venezuelan leader ?
Meet the new boss, just like the old boss ???
Won't be fooled again ???
#119
Re: Shut Up (about) Chavez
Dec 6th, 2007Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
And Chavez has killed a greater proportion of people in regards to his resources with his dream of communist empire.Bush has just killed about a million Iraqis during the war he started there.....Your hate for Chavez won't help that...
Put Chavez in charge of the US and its resources and far more than a million would die.
Your hate for Bush won't fix the wrongs a brutal murderer intent on ruling through force.
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