Are Presidents Entitled to Kill Foreigners?

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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[FONT=Arial,Geneva,sans-serif]by James Bovard[/FONT], [FONT=Arial,Geneva,sans-serif]October 5, 2007[/FONT]


[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]What is the common term for ordering soldiers to kill vast numbers of innocent people?

A war crime.

But not when it is done on the command of the U.S. president.

Killing innocent foreigners seems to be a perk of the modern presidency — akin to the band’s playing “Hail to the Chief” when he enters the room.

Bush is revving up the war threats against Iran. Seymour Hersh reported in the current issue of the New Yorker that the administration is advancing plans to bomb many targets in Iran. British newspapers have confirmed that the Pentagon has a list of thousands of bombing targets. Hardly anyone claims that Iran poses a threat to the United States.

Yet few people in Washington seem to dispute the president’s right to attack Iran. It is as if the presidential whim is sufficient to justify blasting any foreign nation that does not kowtow to the commands of the U.S. government.

Jack Goldsmith, a former top Bush appointee in the Justice Department and now a Harvard Law professor, observes in his new book, The Terror Presidency, “The president and the vice president always made clear that a central administration priority was to maintain and expand the president’s formal legal powers.” And the power to attack foreign nations is one of the most valued prerogatives of today’s Republicans.

Bush’s top advisors — and especially the vice president — are devoted to a Nixonian view of absolute power for the commander in chief. After he was driven out of office in disgrace, Nixon told interviewer David Frost in 1977, “When the president does it that means that it is not illegal.” Frost, somewhat dumbfounded, replied, “By definition?” Nixon answered, “Exactly. Exactly.”

This seems to be the attitude of Bush and his war planners towards Tehran. Pentagon Deputy Assistant Secretary Debra Cagan recently told several British Members of Parliament that “I hate all Iranians.” Perhaps Cagan got her position because of such prejudice towards nations that Bush formally designated as “evil.” At the same time that Congress is considering hate-crime legislation, ethnic hatred may be driving U.S. plans to slaughter Iranians.

For Bush, attacking Iran may simply be a question of checking off another item on his final To Do list — or one more wild swing at making himself a legacy. Bush told a biographer that, after he leaves office, he looks forward to receiving “ridiculous” (in his words) speaking fees of $75,000 per talk. He is also looking forward to putting in some time on his “fantastic” Freedom Institute.

The fact that thousands or hundreds of thousands of Iranians might die is irrelevant. Bush appears far more concerned about baseball statistics than the body counts compiled by the U.S. military abroad. The fact that many Americans could also die — either during the attack or from Iranian retaliation on U.S. forces in Iraq — doesn’t appear to be costing Bush any sleep.

No American politician has ever been sentenced to death for ordering U.S. soldiers to kill innocent foreigners. Such orders have gone out many times — from the Philippines in the early 1900s, to Haiti in the 1910s, to Vietnam in the 1960s. There have been many other conflicts in which American presidents rubber-stamped U.S. military rules of engagement that guaranteed carnage among foreign women and children.

Americans cannot expect to have good presidents if presidents are permitted to make themselves tsars. The president and his top officials should face the same perils common citizens face when they are accused of breaking the law. Seeing a president answer for his crimes would be public education at its best. Consider how the subsequent course of American foreign policy might have differed if Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon had been tried, convicted in federal court, and punished for committing war crimes.

Perhaps Bush thinks that starting another foreign war will help boost demand for his speeches among groups that want to see U.S. forces kill more Muslims. But if he cares about freedom as much as he claims, he will cease acting as though he is above the law. And if Bush refuses to restrain himself, Americans should remember the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson. Sometimes the threat of a noose is the best way to keep the peace.
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thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
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Great Satan
So what will James Bovard do when Bush leaves office without attacking Iran?

I mean afterall, one of his mouth-breathing pals said we were on a 30 day countdown to war with Iran back in March or April. 30 days came and went, no war.

So I guess he could open up a telephone psychic hotline or something, or maybe that's where he's getting his remarkable insight from to begin with.
 

goat

Time Out
Mar 8, 2007
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Unless he has been hanging about on fourms replete with more than just a copious amount of anti-Americanism.

He couldn't possibly be posting here.

Could he
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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For one thing, there is not copious amounts of anti-Americanism on this forum. It doesn't make one anti-American to acknowledge the three million civilian deaths in Viet Nam or the Million in Cambodia and Laos. These things did happen. The unnecessary civilian deaths in Iraq also happened.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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America even kills Canadian allied soldiers and as far as Americans are concerned it part of war.

Killing of innocent civilians in a war zone doesn’t bother the American people.

We have to remember that America was started by a revolution they are the modern day Klingons, war is in their blood.

If you look at their history since 1776 every president had a war going on in their term
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Minnesota: Gopher State



I am a good student of USA history and have never seen any president characterized as a terrorist or imperialist as often as Bush has been. There can be no question that he lied about WMD in order to start a war that would generate profits for the wealthy elites who run this country and that his current campaign against Iran is done under the same motivation.

Impeachment, removal, and Nuremburg Tribunal -- this is what Bush deserves.

Professor Ben Ferencz (the man who invented the Nuremburg Doctrine) said this a long time ago.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Hillary is going to kick some Darfurian butts.

*or maybe not*
 

YoungJoonKim

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2007
690
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HAHA
Hilary got no guts, she will instead make huge wall between Canada and United States as she still claims terrorists come from Canada..
yeah right. *cough*

Ah geez, is this the face of American politic? Why is Hilary and Guiliani getting support?
This is ridiculous..
to me, they both seem phony bony.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
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[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]Bush is revving up the war threats against Iran. [/FONT]

:lol: Ahmadinjihad is on his world "I hate America, let's all hate America together" tour, but bush is revving up war threats. :lol:

Guys like this are the best thing that ever happened to Iranian propaganda.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Don't be hatin'! heh heh

For one thing, there is not copious amounts of anti-Americanism on this forum. It doesn't make one anti-American to acknowledge the three million civilian deaths in Viet Nam or the Million in Cambodia and Laos. These things did happen. The unnecessary civilian deaths in Iraq also happened.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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If China decided to reaffirm its "right" to Formosa...Taiwan...and launched air strikes against that island, the United States would call it war....

If Russia moved troops into various regions there were once part of the USSR and launched air strikes and armor against these regions, America would call it war.....

If ANYONE were to pre-emptively attack Israel...say Lebanon or Syria or anyone else who the Israelis identify as "terrorists", Americans would call that war....

It is the United States who reserves the right to tell the world what is and what isn't "war", what is and what isn't "terrorism", what is and what isn't "democracy"....

If there's any Anti-Americanism it's for a reason. It might be in response to America's re-definition of the English language when it comes to war politics and corruption....

It might be because the rest of the world while by turn, happily subjugated to the corporate appetites of the American people ...and pleased to be receiving aid and "support" from America.....

It might be because the world (except for Walter of course) is slowly beginning to understand that America and American style political and economic dynamics are behind global warming and rampant corruption throughout the world.....

It might be because the world is expecting that the appetites and attitudes of Americans, who've always done so well at making war and building their nation on the backs of slaves and profiteering from war and conflict are simply anxious to get on with the next bit of "big-stick" mentality in Iran and fully expect that there will be some very serious consequences that the United States of America will both unwittingly and with full intention impose on every living being on this planet....

There's lot's of reasons for Anti-Americanism......

But like most things.....people will cling to their desperate fantasies and ignore what's happening around them until the manure hits the fan....

Very American this predisposition to fiddle while Rome burns....
 
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Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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Who defines what deaths are neccessary or unneccessary?

It is generally agreed that self defense and natural causes are "necessary" deaths. Preemptive self defense is not recognized anywhere in the world that I am aware of. In the case of self defense there is also a concept of a balanced response; in personal terms using a machine gun on a crowd to take out a man who is attempting to molest your child would not be a balanced response. Although smashing somebody in the face with a baseball bat because it was the only thing handy is. There are a lot of compounding factors, reading through various self defense cases can elucidate these concepts.
 

triedit

inimitable
It is generally agreed that self defense and natural causes are "necessary" deaths. Preemptive self defense is not recognized anywhere in the world that I am aware of. In the case of self defense there is also a concept of a balanced response; in personal terms using a machine gun on a crowd to take out a man who is attempting to molest your child would not be a balanced response. Although smashing somebody in the face with a baseball bat because it was the only thing handy is. There are a lot of compounding factors, reading through various self defense cases can elucidate these concepts.

See, this is what I have an issue with. Now keep in mind that Im not "pro war" etc.

War is messy business. Trying to legislate fairness into it is ridiculous. I also believe that this is why wars go on so long--people try to make them play nice during a war.

Why are there any rules of warfare at all? If folks could be fair and play by the rules there would never be a war.