Common citizenship for Canada and the US?


View Poll Results: Do you support a common citizenship and passport for Canadians and Americans?
Yes. 2 10.00%
No. 16 80.00%
Maybe. 2 10.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

Machjo
#1
Should Canada and the US adopt a common citizenship and passport?

Please do not read between the lines. This does not include political union or anything else. Just take it at face value (i.e. common citizenship and nothing more). The two nations would remain sovereign otherwise.

Support or oppose?
 
Machjo
#2
I vote yes. As to whether I'd be in favour of a united nation between the two, I'd be hesitant; the two nations are still quite different.

But a common citizenship could lay the foundations of a common culture in future, even if generations later, as more people cross the border on both sides.
 
Machjo
#3
Not to mention less burocracy.
 
Kreskin
#4
Would that mean passport holders from Canada could no longer vacation in Cuba? Citizenship has a lot of tax treaty issues to overcome. Probably more red tape than it would be worth.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#5
What we would like is irrelevant. The yanks would never go for it.
 
Machjo
#6
Good points. I guess we'd have to negotiate that. One possibility would be to make a distinction between citizen and resident. So US law would apply to US residents only, not US citizens. Same with Canadian law. As such, holders of this common citizenship who reside in the US would no longer be allowed to go to Cuba. This woudl have advantages in that the US government could then better control its residents (if you're a Canadian resident in the US this would then apply to you too).

But this would also allow Canada to better control its residents (the US would no longer be allowed to impose its rules on holders of this common citizenship residing in Canada, so if you reside in Canada, you're free to go to Cuba. That could be a solution, and in this sense could even strengthen national sovereignty on both sides of the border in terms of imposing laws on residents rather than citizens. And this would fgive the individual more freedom too with the option of residing out of country more easily. A next step for democracy if you will.
 
triedit
#7
Nope. Im perfectly happy not being allowed to go to Cuba.

Citizenship is a huge deal for me. And a passport is proof of citizenship in my eyes. Travel between the two countries is easy enough already. I don't think either country's citizens should be allowed more freedom than they already have.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#8
I want a common citizenship with Mexico so I can have access to quality hot sauce and taco's.
 
Kreskin
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I want a common citizenship with Mexico so I can have access to quality hot sauce and taco's.

There's a 14-foot ladder by a 12-foot fence in Mew Mexico that is commonly used for cross border anything.
 
Unforgiven
#10
One more little slice taken away from the Canadian identity.
Nah we need to remain our own country and make our own rules. The more the US dictates to us, the less we really own or deserve this country. Getting across the border is fine for those who want to go. Remember, there is a big world out there and once you get to know it, you might find Cheese Burgers and Peelers a little low brow.
 
ottawabill
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by trieditView Post

Nope. Im perfectly happy not being allowed to go to Cuba.

Citizenship is a huge deal for me. And a passport is proof of citizenship in my eyes. Travel between the two countries is easy enough already. I don't think either country's citizens should be allowed more freedom than they already have.

yes yes yes...Canadians happliy go off to Cuba for a cheap vacation having no idea that there money fuels a dictatorship that is so terrible that people are willing to float cars across the ocean to Florida!!

I have my concerns with the U.S. system compared to ours...I really don't like the complete open gun policy etc. But on the international stage we are one and the same, same people, same culture, same outlook, for that there should be special relations between the two. A North American citizen card with access somewhat like the EU would fair very well for North America. If only Canada would stop feeling so inferior it could work.
 
Kreskin
#12
The two countries are presently working to remove non-resident withholding taxes. One small step in progress.
 
Northboy
#13
Without getting too deep into that Book I like to read often....
We are told to judge a tree by its fruit..
So, why not evaluate a system by its results?
When I mean results, I mean quality of life, what is the future for our children..
 
Machjo
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by UnforgivenView Post

One more little slice taken away from the Canadian identity.
Nah we need to remain our own country and make our own rules. The more the US dictates to us, the less we really own or deserve this country. Getting across the border is fine for those who want to go. Remember, there is a big world out there and once you get to know it, you might find Cheese Burgers and Peelers a little low brow.

Identity is not so simply defined, and varies from person to person. For me, my identity is quite individual. I know what I am and need no law to confirm it. I don't think it's the government's job to maintain identity as if we are little babies. I'll giv e an example:

A few years ago I was having a conversation with a fellow compatriot about American programming in Canada. She was in favour of laws to censor American programming on TV and radio, and magazines, etc. while I was arguing that we should not make any distinction between foreign and Canadian content. Let the best survive.

Here's the strange thing though: she was an avid television viewer while I'm your typical bookworm. So she knew more American programmes than I did!

She was quite embarrassed when I, the one who was arguing that we should allow for more cultural freedom in the press, on TV and on the radio, had to ask her to explain some of the various American shows on TV 'cause I wasn't familiar with all of them. And yet she was the one huffing and puffing about identity.

So finally I told her, if she doesn't like it, then just stop watching it.

As for citizenship, that would be a legal issue, not one of cultural identity. Some in Quebec call themselves Quebecois first, Canadian second, despite common legal citizenship. So what are you suggesting; that we ought to kick them out to protect their identity? The EU should dissolve? What about the UN? If we argue that our identity is dependent upon law, then our identity is threatenned on all sides. If our identity is from within, there is nothing to fear mon ami.

By the way, as a proud Canadian, can you speak French? 'Cause I can.
 
Machjo
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I want a common citizenship with Mexico so I can have access to quality hot sauce and taco's.

I fully agree.
 
Machjo
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by NorthboyView Post

Without getting too deep into that Book I like to read often....
We are told to judge a tree by its fruit..
So, why not evaluate a system by its results?
When I mean results, I mean quality of life, what is the future for our children..

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
(King James Bible, Matthew 5: 15-16)

Today it is rendered:

ye are the light of your country. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the room (for the doors are shut). Let your light so shine before your compatriots, that they may see your good works, and glorify your flag which is on the pole.
 
Toro
#17
No.

There'd be 30 million people living here in Florida if this happened.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by ToroView Post

No.

There'd be 30 million people living here in Florida if this happened.

Come on Toro, Canada doesn't have 30 million retired folks, besides... there is not enough trailer parks in Florida to support our whole country.
 
Unforgiven
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Identity is not so simply defined, and varies from person to person. For me, my identity is quite individual. I know what I am and need no law to confirm it. I don't think it's the government's job to maintain identity as if we are little babies. I'll giv e an example:

A few years ago I was having a conversation with a fellow compatriot about American programming in Canada. She was in favour of laws to censor American programming on TV and radio, and magazines, etc. while I was arguing that we should not make any distinction between foreign and Canadian content. Let the best survive.

Here's the strange thing though: she was an avid television viewer while I'm your typical bookworm. So she knew more American programmes than I did!

She was quite embarrassed when I, the one who was arguing that we should allow for more cultural freedom in the press, on TV and on the radio, had to ask her to explain some of the various American shows on TV 'cause I wasn't familiar with all of them. And yet she was the one huffing and puffing about identity.

So finally I told her, if she doesn't like it, then just stop watching it.

As for citizenship, that would be a legal issue, not one of cultural identity. Some in Quebec call themselves Quebecois first, Canadian second, despite common legal citizenship. So what are you suggesting; that we ought to kick them out to protect their identity? The EU should dissolve? What about the UN? If we argue that our identity is dependent upon law, then our identity is threatenned on all sides. If our identity is from within, there is nothing to fear mon ami.

By the way, as a proud Canadian, can you speak French? 'Cause I can.

Not sure I understand what you're getting at. You don't watch much tv so ergo, you're closer to understanding your national identity?

I think French Canadians have and can enjoy a distinct culture and heritage within Canadian nationality. Like First Nation People. But like everything that is worth while, it requires working on it and teaching it to children so that they carry on with it as they grow and become adults. Canada is a better place for that.

The EU does what the EU does. I don't care much about that as I don't go visit the EU I go to London, France, Greece and Germany. But you can't really say that when the Ukraine was annexed by Russia as part of the Soviet Union, they weren't culturaly and nationally altered. And that is how it would be here should the US decide it's time to control our land. Only instead of holocaust at the point of a gun, it's arrests, internment for the upstarts and a hostile take over of convenience for those who will just go along to get along.

I don't buy the nothing to fear line. The French had plenty to fear when the Germans rolled over the border.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Come on Toro, Canada doesn't have 30 million retired folks, besides... there is not enough trailer parks in Florida to support our whole country.

There may be a 1 or 2 hurricane waiting list for vacancy.
 
Unforgiven
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by NorthboyView Post

Without getting too deep into that Book I like to read often....
We are told to judge a tree by its fruit..
So, why not evaluate a system by its results?
When I mean results, I mean quality of life, what is the future for our children..

Hey the snake only asked Eve to try one bite of the apple. Look what happend there.
 
Twila
#22
Quote:

Peelers a little low brow.

Man oh man, which tongue in cheek response to post?

uhm, there is no low brow in US peelers, I thought...since they can't go completely nude? or has it changed?
k, I'll just stick to one tongue in cheek response...or should that be tongue on cheek? your not allowed to touch them either...so tongue in cheek it is....
 
triedit
#23
Just two questions....

What are peelers?
What "open gun policy"?
 
Twila
#24
Peelers are strippers. At least they are where I came from...unless they're referring to cleaning veggies...
 
triedit
#25
Oh ok. We just call them strippers down home...peelers are potatoes!
 
Machjo
#26
Not sure I understand what you're getting at. You don't watch much tv so ergo, you're closer to understanding your national identity?
What I was getting at is that often the ones who fear American cultural encroachment the most are the ones who take it in the most. How ironic. Imagine a person sitting in front of the TV watching American programming and thinking 'ah too much American programming!'. For crying out loud, are your fingers broken? Change the channel. We don't need government censorship for that. Yet those of of who can change the channel or move on to other things don't see this encroachment.

And besides, what I'd presented in the OP was common citizenship only. So even with that, the government could still feel free to impose more Canadian content in programming etc. Just that we'd see more boogey men.. Uhm, I mean, Americans on our streets. You know, those strange people with two eyes, a nose, a mouth, two arms with hands on each end. You know waht I'm talking about.

I think French Canadians have and can enjoy a distinct culture and heritage within Canadian nationality. Like First Nation People. But like everything that is worth while, it requires working on it and teaching it to children so that they carry on with it as they grow and become adults. Canada is a better place for that.

And how would a common citizenship stop us from continuing this? Irrelevent.

The EU does what the EU does. I don't care much about that as I don't go visit the EU I go to London, France, Greece and Germany. But you can't really say that when the Ukraine was annexed by Russia as part of the Soviet Union, they weren't culturaly and nationally altered. And that is how it would be here should the US decide it's time to control our land. Only instead of holocaust at the point of a gun, it's arrests, internment for the upstarts and a hostile take over of convenience for those who will just go along to get along.

How did we just go from charing a common citizenship (which does not even involve forming a new country per se) and annexation by military force. According to the model presented i the OP, the Canadian government would still reserve the right, if it wanted to, to ban all US programming, cut ties with NATO, boot all US troops off our soil, and heck, even scrap NAFTA and become protectionist again. Not that it would be a good idea, but just to emphasize that the OP only talked about common citizenship, no more. This would simply mean that private citizens would be free to cross the border, study, mary work, move, etc. without restrictions.

I don't buy the nothing to fear line. The French had plenty to fear when the Germans rolled over the border.

So you're comparing private US citizens with the Wehrmacht! Oh wow, I think Anti-Americanism has just hit a new low.
 
unclepercy
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by ToroView Post

No.

There'd be 30 million people living here in Florida if this happened.

Yes! I'd rather have 30 million Canadians than 12 million illegal immigrants.

Uncle
 
Toro
#28
What if there were 30 million Canadian illegal immigrants?
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#29
By and large Canadians have a better reputation overseas and there is no way I would like to see us moving any closer to the neighbour to the south. US foreign poicy has made America the most hated nation on the planet, and I don't want anything in my pocket that links me personally to their actions.
 
Machjo
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ToroView Post

What if there were 30 million Canadian illegal immigrants?

How could they be illegal if they share a common citizenship?
 

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