British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Blackleaf

#1Apr 5th, 2007

Throughout the hostage crisis Britain's Sky News knew that the British WERE gathering intelligence on the Iranians before 15 of them were captured. Five days before the hostages were taken one of them, Captain Chris Air, was interviewed by Sky News.

Sky News kept it a secret until the sailors were released.
----------------------------------------

Breaking News

Captain Chris Air

'We Gathered Intelligence'

Thursday April 05, 2007

The captain in charge of the marines detained in Iran has said they were gathering intelligence on the Iranians.

Sky News went on patrol with Captain Chris Air and his team in Iraqi waters close to the area where they were arrested - just five days BEFORE the crisis began.

We withheld the interview until now so it would not jeopardise their safety.

And today, former Iranian diplomat Dr Mehrdad Khonsari said if the Iranians had known about it, they would have used it to "justify taking the marines captive and put them on trial".

Captain Air and his team were on an 'Interaction Patrol' where their patrol boats came alongside fishing dhows.

The operation was mainly to investigate arms smuggling and terrorism but Captain Air said it was also to gain intelligence on Iranian activity.

Home after their ordeal - the sailors land back in Britain

He told Sky Correspondent Jonathan Samuels: "Basically we speak to the crew, find out if they have any problems, let them know we're here to protect them, protect their fishing and stop any terrorism and piracy in the area," he said.

"Secondly, it's to gather int (intelligence). If they do have any information, because they're here for days at a time, they can share it with us.

"Whether it's about piracy or any sort of Iranian activity in the area. Obviously we're right by the buffer zone with Iran."

The UK Defence Secretary Des Browne told Sky News it was important to gather intelligence to "keep our people safe".

He said: "Modern military operations all have an element of gathering intelligence.

"We need to understand as much as we can about the environment we operate in and intelligence gathering is an every day part of that."

He added: "The UN mandate would clearly empower the military taskforce to gather information about the environment in which they were working."

Captain Air said that fishing dhows had been robbed by Iranian soldiers on a number of occasions.

"It's good to gather int on the Iranians," he said.

Fifteen sailors and marines were taken captive nearly two weeks ago after the Iranian government claimed they had strayed into their waters.

HUGS AND KISSES AS SAILORS AND MARINES ARRIVE BACK IN GOOD OLD BLIGHTY

The arrival back into Britain of the Royal Navy personnel captured by Iran last month ends an agonising two week wait for their family and friends
--------------------

There were emotional scenes at Royal Marines Base Chivenor, near Barnstaple, north Devon as the sailors and marines were finally reunited with their loved ones

(Picture shows Navy Lieutenant Felix Carman)
-------------------

The reunions may be short-lived, however, as the 14 servicemen and one woman could be redeployed to the Gulf soon
------------------

Their British Airways flight touched down from Iran at Heathrow this morning. The sailors were treated to business class and were heard applauding as the plane hit the tarmac
------------------

The freed personnel, among them Navy mother Faye Turney, posed briefly for the media before being whisked away on a Royal Navy Sea King helicopter to the marine base
----------------

Before leaving Iran they were handed gifts from the Iranian regime
----------------

They were also asked by Iranian television how they felt about returning home. Faye Turney thanked Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for allowing them to go home
----------------

sky.com
telegraph.co.uk

Last edited by Blackleaf; Apr 5th, 2007 at 12:35 PM..

Zzarchov

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

They never said they weren't gathering Intelligene.

They said they weren't in Iranian waters, and they weren't.

Peeping toms, but not burglars.

EagleSmack

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

I love how the article does a play on words to make it more than it is.

mabudon

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Ahh, but with the beating of the "War with Iran" drums so loud in the West (and referencing the "optics" that are so cherished hereabouts) how could a sea-border espionage thing be about protecting the British homeland??

Looks more to me like theere was some sort of pre-invasion intelligence gathering- heck, maybe the Brits were just trying to see how closely ceratin areas were being watched...

If I saw someone checking out my property with a set of binoculars, I would put a top to it right quick- is spying okay since it was the "good" guys and Iran should "expect" that kind of thing since they're the "bad guys"???

That notion is patently ridiculous, I do believe

Zzarchov

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Never the less, even if someone is sitting in their yard casing your house to rob later on..

If you go across the street and punch him out, guess which one of you gets arrested?

In this case, Britain had every right to carpet bomb Iran under international law. Iran commited an act of war and the restraints are off. Britain showed alot of restraint and care for its own servicemen.

mabudon

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

I dunno, saying "return them OR ELSE" isn't diplomacy

and what police should Iran have called exactly?? That's what I would do with the "caser"

EagleSmack

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by mabudon

I dunno, saying "return them OR ELSE" isn't diplomacy

and what police should Iran have called exactly?? That's what I would do with the "caser"

It got them back though didn't it. They told Britain to "admit" to a lie that they created and Britain told them to stick it. So the Iranians once again have to lie and tell their people Britain apoligized to justify caving in.

Zzarchov

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by mabudon

I dunno, saying "return them OR ELSE" isn't diplomacy

and what police should Iran have called exactly?? That's what I would do with the "caser"

1.) That is the root of all diplomacy

2.) If somone is on their own property casing yours. There is nothing you can do except lock your stuff down. Can't arrest someone for looking.

Kreskin

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

What I don't understand is why the mother navy ship didn't immediately take the Iranians to task while the crew were being taken/arrested. Isn't it standard to have a system in place to watch each other's backs and take action to defend the ship's crew?

Avro

No Party Affiliation

#10

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov

They never said they weren't gathering Intelligene.

They said they weren't in Iranian waters, and they weren't.

Peeping toms, but not burglars.

Tell me......how do you know they weren't in Iranian waters?

EagleSmack

#11

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin

What I don't understand is why the mother navy ship didn't immediately take the Iranians to task while the crew were being taken/arrested. Isn't it standard to have a system in place to watch each other's backs and take action to defend the ship's crew?

Great Point and I said that at the beginning. I could see if they were zipping about the marshes where the OTHER Royal Marines got caught but these guys were taken in deep water on the high seas. Why didn't the HMS Cornwall head to them at high speed and tell his sailors and Marines to stall? The Marines should have just stayed put and not show any force as they were obviously outgunned. Another poster pointed out as to why didn't the Cornwall see the Iranian craft approaching. The sailors were left far out of the reach of supporting arms IMO.

CDNBear

#12

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Avro

Tell me......how do you know they weren't in Iranian waters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopher
--

March 28, 2007

Fake Maritime Boundaries

The British Government has published a map showing the coordinates of the incident, well within an Iran/Iraq maritime border. The mainstream media and even the blogosphere has bought this hook, line and sinker.
But there are two colossal problems.
A) The Iran/Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British Government. Only Iraq and Iran can agree their bilateral boundary, and they never have done this in the Gulf, only inside the Shatt because there it is the land border too. This published boundary is a fake with no legal force.
B) Accepting the British coordinates for the position of both HMS Cornwall and the incident, both were closer to Iranian land than Iraqi land. Go on, print out the map and measure it. Which underlines the point that the British produced border is not a reliable one.
None of which changes the fact that the Iranians, having made their point, should have handed back the captives immediately. I pray they do so before this thing spirals out of control. But by producing a fake map of the Iran/Iraq boundary, notably unfavourable to Iran, we can only harden the Iranian position.

Ambassador Murray knows that region better than anyone.

Apperantly there isn't a teretorial border there, so the Iranians can not claim they were in Iranian waters.

EagleSmack

#13

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Avro

Tell me......how do you know they weren't in Iranian waters?

Well the Iranians first capture coordinates showed them in Iraqi waters. Once they were shown that they changed to coordinates to 2 miles east of the original ones.

Sounds fishy to me.

Now the last group of Marines that the Iranians bagged WERE in Iranian waters and the Brits admitted it. This time the Brits were adamant that this seizure was illegal and in Iraqi waters.

What do you want to believe though?

hermanntrude

#14

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack

Sounds fishy to me.

MHz

#15

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

If they kept it a 'secret' that long they should have left it that way. The way it now appears, British 'bragging how we conned Iran' article you can be sure that will be the last that ever get returned in a mannor like this. It even discloses they boarder Iranian boats, even if fishing the US wouldn't allow them to fish in Iraq waters. It doesn't matter whose waters they were in, they werte not looking for smuggled item, thety were after infornmation, no matter where this takes place it is spying, anybody from Iran that talked to the British comitted treason.

You just had to know the Btits would get the men back and then laugh away while basically saying, "BTW, we were lieing about what we were doning, we don't care about smuggling all that much, we were after intelligence."
How many tears and sympathies would evaporate had this little fact been known.

If you think Iran was 'fooled' you can bet your bottom dollar each and every fisherman the Brits ever talked to gave a complete recall of everything the Brits asked about. That could have been the delay, if not there by 'accident' they could have be sent for very long prison terms.

earth_as_one

#16

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

I'm sure the Iranians knew the Brits were questioning everyone crossing the border. Gathering intelligence is a legitimate operation. Its not the same as infiltrating Iran and blowing up bridges and transmission lines. Likely some of the people the Brits questioned over the years shared that information with Iranian patrols doing the same thing on the other side.

March 29, 2007 post:

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

But even if the British soldiers were on the Iranian side, both sides agree the soldiers were not on a spy mission. Seems to me this "crisis" should be resolved fairly easily. At worst, Iran may insist on an inquiry.

Unless the US does something dumb.

Iran shows navy captives on TV

gopher

No Party Affiliation

#17

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 5th, 2007

Ahmadinejad set a good example by releasing those spies -- now it's time for Bush to do the same for Iranian diplomats he kidnapped in Iraq this past December.

Dexter Sinister

No Party Affiliation

#18

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 6th, 2007

This thing smells to me of a deliberate setup from the start. Iran's been getting a lot of bad press lately, what better thing to do than provoke a diplomatic incident, bluster and posture for a couple of weeks, then show the world what reasonable people they are by letting everybody go unconditionally. Were the British gathering intelligence on Iran? Of course they were. Did the Iranians know it? Of course they did. Whatever their faults, they're not stupid.

earth_as_one

#19

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 6th, 2007

That's why it makes sense that the Iranians waited for this opportunity and then seized it.

Over the years, allied naval border patrols have probably drifted onto the Iranian side many times over the years. Iran probably decided to seize the next group which inadvertently crossed into Iranian waters soon after American forces raided an Iranian consulate in Iraq and abducted Iranian diplomats in violation of international law.

Quote:

US forces raid Iran consulate in Iraq
(Reuters)
Updated: 2007-01-11 21:30

ARBIL, Iraq - US forces stormed an Iranian consular office in the northern Iraqi Kurdish city of Arbil early on Thursday and arrested five people, including diplomats and staff, Iranian officials said.

The US military made no direct mention of Iranians but in answer to a query issued a statement saying six "individuals" were arrested during "routine" operations in the area.

As the overnight raid was in progress, President George W. Bush was vowing in a keynote address on American television to disrupt what he called the "flow of support" from Iran and Syria for insurgent attacks on US forces in Iraq.

Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini condemned the raid -- the second such operation in the past month as tensions between Washington and Tehran have mounted -- and said it was a violation of international law.

"The activity of all those people at our office in Arbil was legal and was in cooperation with and had the approval of the Iraqi side," Hosseini told Iran's state-owned Arabic language satellite channel Al-Alam.

"There is no justification for this behavior of the Americans, particularly because Iraqi officials were not informed about this move."

In a statement, the US military said it had detained six people around Arbil on suspicion of being "closely tied to activities targeting Iraqi and coalition forces."

"This operation was part of an ongoing effort by coalition forces targeting individuals involved in activities aimed at the killing of Iraqi citizens and Coalition forces," it said, adding the suspects surrendered without incident.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, while not commenting on the operation in Arbil, told Fox News:

"The president made very clear last night that we know that Iran is engaged in activities that are endangering our troops, activities that are destabilizing the young Iraqi government and that we're going to pursue those who may be involved in those activities."....

--

Does anyone believe this President anymore or are people still willing to accept what ever the President says without question?

Quote:

Published on Friday, October 22, 2004 by OneWorld.net
Three of Four Bush Supporters Still Believe in Iraqi WMD, al Qaeda Ties
by Jim LobeWASHINGTON – Three out of four self-described supporters of President George W. Bush still believe that pre-war Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or active programs to produce them and that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein provided “substantial support” to al Qaeda, according to a new survey released here Thursday. Moreover, as many or more Bush supporters hold those beliefs today than they did several months ago, before the publication of a series of well-publicized official government reports that debunked both notions...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1022-01.htm
Quote has been trimmed

That's pretty bad that so many people would still believe the lies used to justify America's illegal Iraq invasion months after it had been proven that Iraq neither possessed WMDs nor links to al Qaeda. That also proves that the US had no proof to back up their claims that Iraq possessed WMDs and links to al Qaeda and had deliberately deecieved the public.

And the American invasion did violate international law.

Quote:

16 September, 2004

The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter...

...When pressed on whether he viewed the invasion of Iraq as illegal, he said: "Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal." ...
--

Are Americans proud that their leaders routinely violate international laws, treaties and conventions? Do they still believe the justifications their leaders made for invading and occupying Iraq? Do they believe the justifications their leaders give for continuing to violate international laws, treaties and conventions?

Iran released these soldiers because they achieved their objectives. Iran raised awareness of America's illegal abduction of their diplomats and communicated directly to the British and American public that they are reasonable to deal with. This incident puts more pressure on American and British leaders to open diplomatic talks with the Iranians and release the kidnapped Iranian diplomats which the US continues to hold hostage.

Last edited by earth_as_one; Apr 6th, 2007 at 09:29 AM..

MikeyDB

#20

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 6th, 2007

Let's hope that the British have more integrity and ability to gather meaningful intel than the Americans who'd rather make up intell....WMD stockpiles for instance....

MikeyDB

#21

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 6th, 2007

Of course rational thought and the absence of fact-based data has never prevented either Britain or the United States from fomenting war and destruction....

Any "cause" will do...

earth_as_one

#22

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher

Ahmadinejad set a good example by releasing those spies -- now it's time for Bush to do the same for Iranian diplomats he kidnapped in Iraq this past December.

Maybe Bush will get his tailor to dress them up in suits just like Ahmadinejad did with his "guests". The departing loot bags were a nice touch.

Sort of makes the typical American treatment of their "guests" seem rather harsh in comparison. More likely this is kind of treatment the Iranian diplomats have already experienced:

Quote:

CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

Sources Say Agency's Tactics Lead to Questionable Confessions, Sometimes to Death

Nov. 18, 2005 — Harsh interrogation techniques authorized by top officials of the CIA have led to questionable confessions and the death of a detainee since the techniques were first authorized in mid-March 2002, ABC News has been told by former and current intelligence officers and supervisors...

--

Quote:

Behind release of Iranian diplomat
Sat, 07 Apr 2007

An informed source unveiled details of the release of the second Secretary of Iran's embassy in Iraq on Saturday.

The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, stated that Jalal Sharafi was handed to the Iranian diplomats in Baghdad on April 2, while he was handcuffed.

He added that the diplomat was immediately held under tight security measures.

The source reiterated that the Iranian diplomats had informed the Iraqi officials of Sharafi's release and called for troop dispatch around Iranian embassy in Baghdad for protection of the site.

The source noted that Sharafi had been tortured by his captors, among them U.S. intelligence officials, saying there were also signs of torture on his hands and feet.

He pointed out that Sharafi was subjected to different forms of torture day and night.

The official said the kidnappers took Sharafi to a base near Baghdad airport and he was questioned by Arabic-speaking and English-speaking interrogators.

He quoted Sharafi as saying, "The CIA questions focused mainly on Iran's presence and influence in Iraq. When faced with my responses on Iran's official ties with the Iraqi government, they increased the torture."

--

That came from the Iranian news.

Last edited by earth_as_one; Apr 8th, 2007 at 04:48 PM..

Zzarchov

#23

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

And is there any more credible news source than a state sponsored media from a state who stones journalists to death for reporting stories they don't like?

Sparrow

#24

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

What about the reports from the US government itself that is does torture detaines, do you consider this more credible.

earth_as_one

#25

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

I don't trust any government or news source. But I'll certanly listen to what they have to say, even the Americans which have consistently revealed themselves to be deceptive.

But you tell me Z, which captive would you rather be, an Iranian diplomat picked up by the Americans in Iraq or a released British sailor about to sell their story?

Quote:

...The ministry said it had waived rules barring serving military personnel from selling their stories because of huge public interest in the case. "These are considered to be exceptional circumstances," a ministry spokeswoman said.

Some popular British newspapers pay people for their sensational stories to boost sales. The spokeswoman said the 15 would be able to keep fees which press reports estimated could total as much as 250,000 pounds ($680,700)...

--

I haven't seen any story saying a sailor has sold their story yet, but there is nothing which can stop them legally.

L Gilbert

No Party Affiliation

#26

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

Besides what Dex said, any country able to spy on anyone else os has been doing it all along anyway.

MHz

#27

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov

And is there any more credible news source than a state sponsored media from a state who stones journalists to death for reporting stories they don't like?

Rachel was run over by a bulldozer. I checked with my life insurance guy, a new job as a reporter in a 'war zone or protest zone' greatly increases my monthly rate, even then it could be cancelled depending what part of the world I was headed for.

For all the hoopla over Iran filming them and airing it (how many times was it shown in Iran) the west certainly showed the footage for what would become hours and hours of broadcasting something they found offensive. When you re-broadcast 'offensive material' you become as offensive as whoever took the pics in the first place. All the fuss was over their privacy being infringed upon. It was Britian who released a name of any of the captives before Iran did.

When the stories get published I would bet there are more pronouns and adverbs in there than is really needed to get the facts of their detainment out.

Sparrow

#28

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

I don't trust any government or news source. But I'll certanly listen to what they have to say, even the Americans which have consistently revealed themselves to be deceptive.

But you tell me Z, which captive would you rather be, an Iranian diplomat picked up by the Americans in Iraq or a released British sailor about to sell their story?

I haven't seen any story saying a sailor has sold their story yet, but there is nothing which can stop them legally.

The story does not say that they have sold their stories except to the media:
--
-- granting them permission.

gopher

No Party Affiliation

#29

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov

And is there any more credible news source than a state sponsored media from a state who stones journalists to death for reporting stories they don't like?

Oh, you mean like the CIA's attempt to murder Giuliana Sgrena but who wound up killing her body guard?

westmanguy

#30

Re: British WERE gathering intelligence on Iranians before they were captured

Apr 8th, 2007

Sky News is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Coporation.

FOX News Channel is also owned by News Corp. FNC from time to time gets feeds and reports from Sky News, and vise versa with Sky News getting coverage from the United States from FNC.

-Wikipedia.

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