youtube link: Non-Violent Protest against Israel Apartheid Wall

[earth_as_one]

This is amazing footage. Armed only with a camera, two Americans participates in a non-violent protest against the Israel Apartheid Wall. Israeli soldiers use clubs and real bullets against unarmed people. Camera man is shot at and some protestors are seriously hurt.

This is a video shot by two Americans at a peaceful protest in a village in Palestine. These people, a mixture of Israelis, Palestinians and internationals, were protesting against the wall being built by the Israeli government that is stealing Palestinian land illegally...

WARNING CONTAINS SCENES OF VIOLENCE

Imagine what would happen if millions of people showed up armed only with video cameras...

 

[CDNBear]

No corroberation.

No proof of "real bullets" being used.

Youtube, the presenters of facts?

Oh brother, what lows have the supporters of the Arab nazi party sunk to now.

 

[earth_as_one]

The protestors are international including Israelis... We need more people as are brave as this camera man.

The video illuminates what violence used against non-violence looks like. These people risked their lives to capture these images. If you can stomach it and want to know more about nonviolent protest or the Palestinian cause, watch the video and judge for yourself.

 

[CDNBear]

The protestors are international including Israelis... We need more people as are brave as this camera man.

The video illuminates what violence used against non-violence looks like. These people risked their lives to capture these images. If you can stomach it and want to know more about nonviolent protest or the Palestinian cause, watch the video and judge for yourself.

Really?

Seeing as the video is dodgy and unfocused, one can not get much from it, when viewed with an open mind.

I see alot of hitting on both side of the line, not very non violent if you ask me.

Furthermore, there is no evidence of "real bullets". As usual and par for the course, that is a statement without merit and void of proof. Rubber bullets are the typical round used by the IDf in these situations as has been proven time and time again.

There is far to much biased circumstancial claims being made to take you or this video seriously.

 

[earth_as_one]

What the people did in the above video is true bravery.

Here are some more brave demonstrators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91b3-X-wgJU&mode=related&search=

In this one it appears that IDF soldiers fired a tear gas shell into an ambulance attempting to move a wounded protestor.

BTW rubber coated steel counts as real bullets, especially when a protestor is hit in the eye with one as in the first video.

 

[s243a]

What they need is some kind of theater prop so when they are hit with a rubber built fake blood sprays everywhere.

 

[earth_as_one]

I disagree. I steel coated rubber bullet taking out an eye, splattering real blood and chunks of meat hanging out is plenty gory enough.

...the Israeli army and Border Police brutally prevented Bil’in’s weekly non-violent demonstration, by firing rubber bullets and sound grenades on protestors as they marched through the village on their way to the Apartheid wall. Fourteen people from Bil’in, Israelis and internationals, have been injured, including an Israeli, Lymar, in critical condition who was shot on neck and just above his right ear with 3 rubber bullets at close range. He has had surgery at Tel Hashomer hospital to remove a rubber bullet that was lodged in his skull. Currently he is in a medical induced coma in moderate but stable condition, but has sustained brain damaged of unknown severity.
Another demonstrator from Denmark, Rina, has suffered a fracture in her skull and brain contusion after a soldier beat her with the butt of his gun. She is currently hospitalized in Hebron, West Bank and is conscious but unable to walk...

http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/2006/08/11/bilin-4/

Rubber coated steel bullets can cause serios damage.

And Israel can and does use lethal force against unarmed non-violent protestors:

...Israel Attack Kills 10 at Gaza Protest
Army Says Shots Were Warning; Children Among Dozens of Wounded

By Glenn Frankel
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, May 20, 2004; Page A01
RAFAH, Gaza Strip, May 19 -- An Israeli helicopter gunship and a tank fired rockets and artillery shells at Palestinian protesters Wednesday as they marched toward a heavily populated neighborhood in the southern Gaza Strip. At least 10 Palestinians were killed and dozens wounded, many of them children, as explosives and shrapnel ripped through the crowd...

...Palestinian witnesses insisted there were no fighters or weapons among the marchers and that the tank was more than 200 yards away....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38959-2004May19.html

...It was the summer of 2002, and Assaf and his armoured unit had been ordered to enter the Gaza town of Dir al Balah following the firing of mortars into nearby Jewish settlements. His orders were, he told the Guardian, "'Every person you see on the street, kill him'. And we would just do it."

It was not the first time that Assaf had killed an innocent person in Gaza while following orders, but after his discharge he began to think about the things he did.
"The reason why I am telling you this is that I want the army to think about what they are asking us to do, shooting unarmed people. I don't think it's legal." Assaf is not alone. In recent months dozens of soldiers, including the son of an an Israeli general, all recently discharged, have come forward to share their stories of how they were ordered in briefings to shoot to kill unarmed people without fear of reprimand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1563273,00.html

No question, the people who took the videos risked their lives to get those images.

 

[Zzarchov]

I've seen tear gas, tasers and batons used to clear up High School parties, In Canada.

I think the problem here is you don't have a clear idea of how society functions when dealing with dissidents, even the "civilized nations". Push comes to shove (often literally), and force is used against force.

Why should I feel so bad that in land full of suicide bombers and snipers a similar level of force is used as we use against our own kids?

 

[CDNBear]

I've seen tear gas, tasers and batons used to clear up High School parties, In Canada.

I think the problem here is you don't have a clear idea of how society functions when dealing with dissidents, even the "civilized nations". Push comes to shove (often literally), and force is used against force.

Why should I feel so bad that in land full of suicide bombers and snipers a similar level of force is used as we use against our own kids?

Well that was a refreshing voice of reason on an early Sunday morning!!!

 

[earth_as_one]

Z, You confuse a symptom of a problem with the problem. The root problem are these Israel's fluid and expanding borders. As Israel grows in size, their neighbors are forced into refuge camps.

If you want to understand how we got to this point, read what Jewish historians like Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris have discovered about this conflict after years of research:

The History of Israel Reconsidered

Sunday, March 11, 2007 Printer friendly versionby gyaku
http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?plugin=ref&page=Content/Articles/2007-03-11/000119&src=pappe-book.jpg


Professor Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian and senior lecturer of Political Science at Haifa University. He is the author of numerous books, including A History of Modern Palestine, The Modern Middle East, The Israel/Palestine Question and, most recently, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, published in 2006. On March 8, he spoke at a small colloquium in Tokyo organized by the NIHU Program Islamic Area Studies, University of Tokyo Unit, on the path of personal experiences that brought him to write his new book. The following is a transcript of his lecture, tentatively titled "The History of Israel Reconsidered" by organizers of the event.


Ilan Pappe: Thank you for inviting me, it's a pleasure to be here....

...When I started in Oxford, in England, in the early 1980s, quite a lot of new material about 1948 was opened. And I started looking at the archives in Israel, in the United Kingdom, in France, in the United States, and also the United Nations opened its archives when I started working on this. They had interesting archives in Geneva, and in New York.

And suddenly I began to see a picture of 1948 that I was not familiar with...

...we found out that the Zionist leadership, the Israeli leadership, regardless of the peace plans of the United Nations, contemplated long before 1948 the dispossession of the Palestinians, the expulsion of the Palestinians. So it was not that as a result of the war that the Palestinians lost their homes. It was as a result of a Jewish, Zionist, Israeli ― call it what you want ― plan that Palestine was ethnically cleansed in 1948 of its original indigenous population...

The entire of the lecture here:
http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?cmd=contentview&pid=000119

Benny Morris:

Survival of the Fittest? An Interview with Benny Morris with Ari Shavit

....Morris: The revised book is a double-edged sword. It is based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves...

The entire interview here
http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

 

[Zzarchov]

I think the problem Earth as One, isn't my lack of Understanding, as Ido know all the information in those reports.

I think the problem is you have a form of Myopia of the world. Much like how some people say Bush is the "Most evil leader in the world" and pull of links of all his crimes. And I don't disagree he is a bad man, a very ,very bad man. With many Authoritarian and despicable practices and a bent towards war.

However, being ignorant to the world, seeing only the immediate world around them and the sunny side of things, they don't even know what true despots look like. They don't grasp that for all his flaws Bush is FAR from the worst, never has he commited open genocide, he doesn't drag dissidents into the street and shoot them, he doesn't build gas chambers.

 

[CDNBear]

I think the problem Earth as One, isn't my lack of Understanding, as Ido know all the information in those reports.

I think the problem is you have a form of Myopia of the world. Much like how some people say Bush is the "Most evil leader in the world" and pull of links of all his crimes. And I don't disagree he is a bad man, a very ,very bad man. With many Authoritarian and despicable practices and a bent towards war.

However, being ignorant to the world, seeing only the immediate world around them and the sunny side of things, they don't even know what true despots look like. They don't grasp that for all his flaws Bush is FAR from the worst, never has he commited open genocide, he doesn't drag dissidents into the street and shoot them, he doesn't build gas chambers.

8O, are you serious? Bush isn't the great satan, there are more violent and terrible plights then that of the militant Palestinians?

 

[earth_as_one]

Israel systematically cleanses Palestine of Palestinians. Its been getting away with it for over 60 years now. It started before Israel declared independance and continues today.

Maps of Palestine
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/0_pal_facts_MAPS.htm


If you know about Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing and support it, then you must be callous.

If you are unaware of Israel's oppression of Palestinians, the daily injustice they suffer, then read the interviews above, check out the maps and watch this documentary:

Dispatches: In The Killing Zone

Now put yourself in a Palestinians shoes. You have been focibly removed from your home by Israeli soldiers. You were only allowed to take what you could carry and the soldiers didn't pillage. A Jewish immigrant family has been awarded your home. They threw your family portraits out with the trash when they moved in. They sleep in your bed and use your furniture. They have a swimming pool. You live in a shack which is about to be bullodozed. You lack electricity, clean drinking water and sewage runs in the street because Israeli soldiers destroyed the power plant and ripped out the water and sewer lines as collective punishment. Israel soldiers regularly fire into your community and drop bombs killing innocent civilians. Each day your refugee camp gets smaller as Israel annexes more land to build more Jewish only colonies. You have no dignity. Your past has been stolen. You have no present and your children have no future. The "international community" not only ignores your pleas for help, but blames you for your suffering and arms Israel.

If you support this then you must be callous.

 

[CDNBear]

If you support this then you must be callous.

If you support this(as you do earth as one), you must be insane...

 

[earth_as_one]

I don't support that CB. Read my posts. When have I advocated violence?

I have said violence is predictable in response to violence. No doubt the Israeli response was swift and violent as well.

We will never achieve peace through violence. I think its time this conflict evolve beyond violence. That means both sides will have to compromise.

Millions of former Jewish refugees and their descendants are residents. After so many injustices, it would be unwise to force again yet another group of people to abandon their homes.

All nations must accept their share of current Palestinian refugees. Israel was created by the UN. The burden of responsibility for the consequences of this action lie with the nations which created Israel.

We must restore to the people diplaced by Israel's creation, their dignity, rights as human beings, freedom to live where they want, compensation for losses...

Once we have achieved that, then peace will be achieved as predictably as violence will result in violence.

 

[CDNBear]

I don't support that CB. Read my posts. When have I advocated violence?

I beg to differ.

Your crediblity has more holes in it then a dead Hezbollah terrorist...

If a hostile nation was killing hundreds of innocent Canadian civilians, I would expect the Canadian military to target that nation's innocent civilian in response just as Hezbollah did.

Do you need more proof, you've made many such statements? I have them all neatly tucked away in my "notebook" for occastions such as this.

 

[earth_as_one]

OK then let me be clear. I don't support acts of violence committed to further the cause of people displaced as a result Israel's creation/expansion.

Clear enough?

But, I do support non-violent forms of protest, especially if they are creative, take advantage of new technology, effective... But I don't expect that many people will be as brave as those Americans, Israelis, Palestinians, Europeans... re: video, first post in this string.

 

[earth_as_one]

Violence is a predictable consequence of violence. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind":Ghandi.

In the example you reference, I would expect the other to also retaliate to our violence with more violence.

I believe in the universal "goodness" of the majority. The majority on both sides want peace. Many on both sides are willing to make sacrifices to achieve it.

Non-violent protestors who risk their lives deserve our respect as much as soldiers who defend their country. Those guys didn't have to, but they voluntarily risked their asses to get that coverage. Thats guts.

 

[CDNBear]

OK then let me be clear. I don't support acts of violence committed to further the cause of people displaced as a result Israel's creation/expansion.

Yes you do.

Clear enough?

Clear as mud...

I disagree. Israel decided to include innocent civilians first. Once that line has been crossed, its reasonable to expect your adversary will also cross that line in response. Hezbollah still has a lot of catching up.

Ouch!

I suppose Hezbollah could have choosen not to attack Israeli civilian targets in response Israel's attacks on Lebanese civilians, but is that reasonable?

Nope, your own words shows you seem to think so though.

 

[earth_as_one]

My form of non-violent protest is to advertise the side less known in Canada. This is a place where Canadians and everyone else is welcome to civily discuss their viewpoint and debate others.

I don't believe in RPGs or attack helicopters, but I do believe in video cameras.