Do your fair share in Afghanistan, Nato told

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Do your fair share in Afghanistan, Nato told

By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent

10/03/2007


Britain's Nato allies who refuse to fight in Afghanistan were accused yesterday of causing "huge resentment" and a sense of betrayal among UK forces.

With four British soldiers killed within the last week, and the Taliban expected to launch a Spring offensive, senior military figures have called for Nato forces to contribute more or risk fracturing the alliance.

The 60-year-old coalition has come under pressure as countries such as Britain, America and Canada continue to shoulder the burden of the fighting, while others such as Germany and France have held their troops back.

Commanders are angry that despite pleas for reinforcements or to have "operational caveats" removed, some countries are still not heeding their requests.

Tony Blair yesterday failed to win a pledge of more fighting troops after he called for European allies to commit to a "maximum collective effort" during a summit in Brussels.The example of German troops not being allowed to operate at night is one of many caveats that have infuriated Britain's military leaders.

Lord Inge, who was head of the Armed Forces during the 1990s, told The Daily Telegraph that the limitations were making the alliance ineffective.

"When you go on an operation as complex and dangerous as this, where some Nato nations are not playing a full part, it makes the job of a commander much more difficult if he cannot use half the troops. It breaks a fundamental military principle."

Lord Inge added that there was now "huge resentment" among troops who were putting their lives on the line when "others are not".

He said: "It also undermines Nato's credibility in the long term if it cannot respond to operational challenges such as this."

Nato had to be prepared for a "very long haul" of up to 20 years' fighting, he added.

The lack of troops and the caveats issue "reflected very badly on Nato", agreed Lord Guthrie, who was a former head of the Armed Forces and advisor to Mr Blair.

"Considering the amount of people the British have out there they are doing an amazing job but it's a smaller part of the overall picture in Afghanistan," he said.

"Tactically we are winning but the strategic battle is a long way off from being won. That is many years off and we will see if Nato has the stomach to see it through."

Col Tim Collins, who served in Iraq, believes that at the very least other countries should provide more finance for those doing the hard fighting. "Helmand province is no place for defence forces that cannot go out at night without their mothers," he said.

Since the Riga summit last year there have been an extra 7,000 troops pledged, taking the total numbers to 39,000.

Following the announcement last week of a further 1,400 troops, the British contingent will soon top 7,700.

Meanwhile, the German government yesterday agreed to send six Tornado jets and 500 support staff to Afghanistan. However, the aircraft will be used primarily for reconnaissance and the soldiers will not be involved in combat.

But while Britain and America will continue to put pressure on their allies to provide more fighting men, a Nato source summed up the situation when he said:

"You are not going to get the Germans to fight for you by shouting at them."

The British soldier who died from injuries received in a grenade attack in the town of Sangeen on Thursday has been named as Michael Smith, who was 39 and came from Liverpool.

The Warrant Officer Class 2, of 29 Commando Regiment Royal Artillery, had 22 years of service in Northern Ireland, Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan.

His commanding officer, Lt Col Neil Wilson, called him "an indomitable character and an institution both within his battery and the wider regiment".

BRITAIN (6000, soon rising to 7700)
Royal Marine frontline fighting force heavily involved in Operation Achilles


CANADA (2500)
Frontline troops disrupting Taliban supplies and reinforcements on Kandahar / Helmand border


AMERICA (14,000)
Frontline search and destroy operations, plus tactical reinforcements for Achilles


DENMARK (400)
Provincial reconstruction team in north, reconaissance unit fighting in Helmand


FRANCE (1000)
Security force in Kabul, special forces leaving south after heavy losses (running away).


AUSTRALIA (500)
Engineering team and some special forces in Uruzgan


GERMANY (3000)
Reconstruction team in north-east, some soldiers in Kabul


HOLLAND (2200)
Frontline troops in Uruzgan, F16 jets used in Helmand.


ITALY (1950)
Reconstruction team in Herat. No frontline presence


SPAIN (550)
Reconstruction and security in Badghis province


telegraph.co.uk
 
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tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Yup, it sure is reassuring to see who all our friends are. I don't agree with the Afghan mission. But if we are to be there it is asking little that others there with us also contribute in the same way we are. I hope Ottawa has a long memory. I want no Canadian inopportuned in the future by a fair weather friend flushed from hiding now.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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We might as well burn the money here. This adventures purpose assures it's failure. Our friends have more brains than we do and are removing themselves from the enterprise as diplomaticly as possible.The Caspian oil will run to the sea in any case. There are economic advantages to buying it for some and advantages to theft of same to others. The only way to market the oil in US currency is to hold the fields and the pipe to the sea. There is no other way to save the economy of you know who.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Could someone please tell me what NATO stands for...the letters themselves since the precise definition of the mandate of that group appears to be predicated on the notion that because one or two members of that group decide to invade and destroy nations that have neither WMD or the means to develop non-resource based industrial infrastructures...that everyone (NATO member nations) have a responsibility to support a war and a "police action" predicated on lies and exaggerations...

Just wondering....
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Could someone please tell me what NATO stands for...the letters themselves since the precise definition of the mandate of that group appears to be predicated on the notion that because one or two members of that group decide to invade and destroy nations that have neither WMD or the means to develop non-resource based industrial infrastructures...that everyone (NATO member nations) have a responsibility to support a war and a "police action" predicated on lies and exaggerations...

Just wondering....

If the question is serious:

North Atlantic Treaty Organization

Created just after World War Two
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Thanks again Colpy...

So is this treaty more acceptable to Canadians than trade treaties with the U.S.? Does the U.S. have veto authority on which treaties are acceptable and should be honored as opposed to those that can be rejected?

Does this treaty mean that we will send our children to die because we're a member and even if the war and destruction is falsely fabricated that we have an obligation to sacrifice our kids to keep America in oil and in control of petroleum resources and production?

Just wondering....
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
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Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Yeah, see we were LIED to about "major combat operations are over" and WE jkust took it- why can't our allies do that small thing too??

I mean, WE are throwing away lives and money for nothing willingly, why can't everyone else follow suit??

THAT is how this whole thing comes off to me- that crap about the French being "chicken" THEY ARE DONG WHAT THEY SAID THEY'D DO, no more no less, which is perfectly acceptable, especially given the disingenuous nature of the overall "mission"

It's like a gay friend asking you(and for the sake of this example, I'm speaking in a male perspective) to go to a gay bar and you replying "Okay, as long as no-one tries to have gay sex with me"- but once there, suddenly you're being sodomized- do you HAVE to take it cos you said you'd go along???

Some would say NO, including myself (and nothing meant by the gay bar analogy at all, it just sems the most simple way of re-articulating my stance on the whole pile of BS)

I mean, just cos your friends jump off a bridge doesn't mean YOU have to as well- ever heard that one?? Seems like all the idiots who jumped off are now trying to frame those who didn't as "chickens" to me
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Mabudon, I don't like the Afghan mission and I don't like Afghans. Opium powered pricks. But I think it's been obvious what we've been pushed into. Surely you've seen key recruiting billboards erected across the country in the last two years. In bold print, and mixed in unmistakeable hue are these words: Join Canada's Fighting Forces.
Doesn't look like peace pie to me.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Okay, as long as neither of us is near the washrrom, I hates me them seats especially on long trips in the summer :D

Why do honest hardworking responsible Canadians have to get on a goddamn stinking fuel sucking road pig to travel this glorious country. Where is our railroad, will this new government answer that question?
 

westmanguy

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I have no respect for nations like France and Spain, that never take a stand on anything.

I don't consider these nations allies.

Their is no in between. If your not with us, your against us.