Chirac's nuclear fallout talk

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Wednesday, 07 February 2007 By Gwynne Dyer

Maybe Chirac's gaffe was not as accidental as it seemed. Maybe he wanted people to re-examine all the lies and half-truths we are told about Iran as Washington seems to be gearing up for another attack.

02/07/06 "New Zealand Herald" -- -- For over two years all the big Western powers have insisted Iran's nuclear power programme is secretly intended to produce nuclear weapons. And the minute it gets them, it will launch them at Israel.

But last Thursday France's President Jacques Chirac said something very different. He said Iran would never use them first.

"I would say that what is dangerous about this situation is not the fact of [Iran] having a nuclear bomb," Chirac said in reply to a journalist's question, during an interview originally meant to be about climate change.

"[Iran] having one [bomb], or perhaps a second bomb a little later, well, that's not very dangerous."

Shock! Horror! Chirac is bucking the party line, which is that Iran is run by a bunch of fanatical crazies who would immediately use their new nuclear weapons against Israel.

Didn't Iran's own president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, say Iran would wipe Israel from the map? (No, he didn't, actually, but a little creative licence in the translation of his speech from the Farsi can make it sound like he did.)


"Where will [Iran] drop it, this bomb?" Chirac asked scornfully. "On Israel? [The missile] would not have gone 200m into the air before Tehran would be razed to the ground."

He spoke as if deterrence would work even against Iran. As if the country were run by sane human beings who don't want their children to be burned, crushed and vaporized by Israeli and American nuclear weapons. He's not supposed to talk like that in public.

"Chirac gave us a moment of honesty," said Alireza Nourizadeh, chief researcher at the London-based Centre for Arab-Iranian Studies. "His comment was basically what I believe to be the position of Britain, the United States and much of the West. That is if Israel is attacked, there will be no hesitation in bringing retaliation and destruction to Iran."

And that, Chirac concluded, meant Iran would not use its nuclear weapons to attack Israel, should it ever acquire them.

In Chirac's view, the danger is not that Iran would be irresponsible with its nuclear weapons, but that they would lead to a general proliferation of such weapons in the Middle East.

"Why wouldn't Saudi Arabia do it?" he asked. "Why wouldn't it help Egypt to do it as well? That is the real danger."

But he's not supposed to say that either. Those are the West's allies, the very countries the United States is trying to mobilise as the leaders of an anti-Iranian alliance of Sunni Arab countries.

Chirac was simply stating the truth as he (and many others) see it, but his comments completely undermined the joint Western position, so the following day he was forced to retract them.

He still didn't say that he was wrong, however. Just that he had thought he was "off the record" when discussing Iran.

France is clearly worried by the drumbeat of anti-Iranian propaganda in Washington, which sounds alarmingly similar to the campaign of misinformation waged by the Bush Administration before it attacked Iraq.

Last month Chirac was forced to cancel a visit to Tehran by the French foreign minister, Philippe Douste-Blazy, because his allies did not trust France to stick to the party line. They were doubtless right in their suspicions - but France is right, too.

France is right to argue that Iranian nuclear weapons, if they existed, would be primarily defensive and would not be used to attack Israel, because nuclear deterrence still works and Iranians do not want their country to commit suicide.

It is also right to worry that an Iranian bomb would create pressures for further proliferation, as Arab countries that have lived under the threat of Israeli nuclear weapons for 40 years decide that living under the threat of Iranian nuclear weapons as well, with no means of deterrence or retaliation, is simply intolerable.

France is utterly hypocritical in worrying about Middle Eastern countries owning nuclear weapons when it has had them for almost half a century, but that is equally true for all the other great powers.

And it is jumping to conclusions when it assumes Iran's stated (and quite legal) desire to enrich uranium for nuclear power generation conceals a drive to get a nuclear weapon as soon as possible.

The truth may be that Iran is seeking only a "threshold" nuclear weapons capacity - a level of technological expertise from which it could, in an emergency, develop nuclear weapons in only six months or so. Such a position is entirely legal, and some 40 countries currently occupy it.

The truth may also be that the nuclear-armed neighbour Iran really worries about is not Israel but Pakistan, whose 1998 nuclear tests scared Iranian strategists half to death.

Iranians don't worry about the intentions of Pakistan's dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, but they know it is a one-bullet regime and they worry a great deal about what kind of fanatics might succeed him.

So maybe Chirac's gaffe was not as accidental as it seemed. Maybe he wanted people to re-examine all the lies and half-truths we are told about Iran as Washington seems to be gearing up for another attack.



 

blugoo

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
53
0
6
Yeah, poor little Iran....being picked on by mean ol' Washington and the Western bullies. Iran just wants peace with Israel and its neighbours...hmmm...I thought Iran was telling the world it wanted nuke technology for power generation, now it's for defense? They should make up their mind which cover story they are using...

It's articles and opinions like these that lend more credibility, not less, to the Bush administration and most of the West who argue that Iran is a threat, because the arguments that come from (this) the other side are so utterly ridiculous that they couldn't possibly be true.
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
10,749
103
48
Under a Lone Palm
Oh ya. One or two bombs, not that dangerous. They only dropped two bombs on Japan.
Tehran would be razed to the ground two minutes after launch. Duh, this would be the perfect excuse for the USA to invade Iran. Not that they need one based on their track record. The could just 'wag the dog' their way in like the last <insert ramdom # here> of conflicts and wars they've started.
 
Last edited:

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
I tend to believe that Iran is building a nuclear reactor, and not nuclear bombs. There is a big difference. Iran has already agreed to let observers in to monitor what is going on. All the crap from the U.S. and Britain is very reminiscent of all the "WMD garbage we heard about Iraq to justify the invasion.
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
10,749
103
48
Under a Lone Palm
I tend to believe that Iran is building a nuclear reactor, and not nuclear bombs. There is a big difference. Iran has already agreed to let observers in to monitor what is going on. All the crap from the U.S. and Britain is very reminiscent of all the "WMD garbage we heard about Iraq to justify the invasion.

"Wag the Dog" syndrom.
 

blugoo

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
53
0
6
I tend to believe that Iran is building a nuclear reactor, and not nuclear bombs. There is a big difference. Iran has already agreed to let observers in to monitor what is going on. All the crap from the U.S. and Britain is very reminiscent of all the "WMD garbage we heard about Iraq to justify the invasion.

Just curious #juan, why do you believe Iran? Do you truly think Iran is a benign regime, being completely honest with the world? Or are you simply suspicious when it comes to any position the US takes?

Also, it isn't only Britain and the US who have grave concerns about what Iran is doing...
 

Doryman

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
435
2
18
St. John's
Chirac also has to tread lightly when it comes to issues with muslims or muslim countries. Remember when two... what's the word?.... "youths" died the other year? Huge riots, because the large muslim population in Frances Urban centers decided they didn't like the government. If Francistan's were seen to be in league with such horrendous kafirs as the US and UK... well that's getting a little dangerous...

And in any case, a country and a culture that believes suicide bombing is a legitimate way to express your feelings should not be allowed to possess the most powerful weapon known to man. The reason no-ones launched nukes since ww2 is because everyone knows that if they do, they will also die. What if people who have no fear of death get it?
 

Tresson

Nominee Member
Apr 22, 2005
81
1
8
Chirac also has to tread lightly when it comes to issues with muslims or muslim countries. Remember when two... what's the word?.... "youths" died the other year? Huge riots, because the large muslim population in Frances Urban centers decided they didn't like the government. If Francistan's were seen to be in league with such horrendous kafirs as the US and UK... well that's getting a little dangerous...

And in any case, a country and a culture that believes suicide bombing is a legitimate way to express your feelings should not be allowed to possess the most powerful weapon known to man. The reason no-ones launched nukes since ww2 is because everyone knows that if they do, they will also die. What if people who have no fear of death get it?


I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the riots were about far more the youth not liking the government. What did do to it was the fact they were, and still are, being treated like 2nd class citizens in france. They run into racism daily. They being denied job due to the fact their not the image of what a Franchmen is, in this case it because their not white and christian. So their stuck living in run down over crowded tenments where crime is rife and there is little hope to escape. And these are 2nd or 3rd generation of their families living in france as citizens.

The death of those two youths was the straw that broke the camels back and they let the rest of the counrty know in fine french style. They rioted.
 

Fingertrouble

Electoral Member
Nov 8, 2006
150
1
18
55
Calgary
France and Chirac still DO NOT want Iran to develop Nukes or to push further ahaed on their own, all Chirac offered was a different opinion as to why they should not be allowed to do so....ie/ instead of them developing and using them first...it would open up the possibility of proliferation in the region.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Just curious #juan, why do you believe Iran? Do you truly think Iran is a benign regime, being completely honest with the world? Or are you simply suspicious when it comes to any position the US takes?

Also, it isn't only Britain and the US who have grave concerns about what Iran is doing...

They said they were building a nuclear reactor for electrical power and they said they would allow monitors in to confirm what they were doing. The fissionable material to fuel a nuclear reactor is not nearly concentrated enough to use in a bomb. Why doesn't the U.S. just send the monitors in and shut up?

Iran was a benign regime when a democratically elected government was overthrown to install the Shah. That would have made everyone trust the U.S.. Right?
 

Doryman

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
435
2
18
St. John's
I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the riots were about far more the youth not liking the government. What did do to it was the fact they were, and still are, being treated like 2nd class citizens in france. They run into racism daily. They being denied job due to the fact their not the image of what a Franchmen is, in this case it because their not white and christian. So their stuck living in run down over crowded tenments where crime is rife and there is little hope to escape. And these are 2nd or 3rd generation of their families living in france as citizens.

The death of those two youths was the straw that broke the camels back and they let the rest of the counrty know in fine french style. They rioted.


Many of these immigrants barely speak the national language, have little to no education, and consider themselves part of the Ummah, and not French citizens. That's a lot of the problem. They also tend to ghetto-ize themselves, making their own blocs within the country instead of mixing with the population ( remember it is reccomended by the Quran and most Islamic scholars not to mix with the Kafir, lest he poison your mind with his sinfulness). They do not want to assimilate, so they cannot be treated like other french citizens. They deny that they are french citizens at all.

But the French ARE white, so i see your point. It must be their fault.
 

RomSpaceKnight

Council Member
Oct 30, 2006
1,384
23
38
61
London, Ont. Canada
Isreal would wipe Iran from the face of the planet if a strike was launched at them. The big danger is a radical getting nuclear material and setting off a dirty bomb in Isreal and Iran being able to distance itself from the attack. Isreal would then proceed to attack Lebanon and Syria with all its militray might and invade the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Anyone opposing would be gunned down. Peace would rule in the middle east at the point of an Uzi and at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. Isreal has probably the best if not only workable ballistic missle defence.
 

blugoo

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
53
0
6
They said they were building a nuclear reactor for electrical power and they said they would allow monitors in to confirm what they were doing. The fissionable material to fuel a nuclear reactor is not nearly concentrated enough to use in a bomb. Why doesn't the U.S. just send the monitors in and shut up?

Iran was a benign regime when a democratically elected government was overthrown to install the Shah. That would have made everyone trust the U.S.. Right?

So you really take Iran at their word, huh? Hmm...ok. Everyone can have their opinion.

The thing of it is though, Iran isn't trustworthy. Of course they claim it's for generating power. What else would they say? We want to dominate the region, and fund and launch attacks on Israel, with a nuclear deterent to prevent Israel from retaliating?

And monitors, huh? You think Tehran will allow them unfettered access to every facility they have at anytime? What about military sites? You are really going to go on record saying you believe that?

And like I said before, the US isn't the only country concerned about Iran. Canada is as well, of course, Europe has taking a leading role, and even Russia and China are uncomfortable with the situation. The world is rightly worried about a regime like Iran getting nukes, because the high probability of Iran using them, or threatening to use them, makes the region incredibly more volatile and less stable than it even is now. (which of course is saying something)

BTW, I noticed you said Iran was a benign regime. Even you won't say it is now.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
So you really take Iran at their word, huh? Hmm...ok. Everyone can have their opinion.

The thing of it is though, Iran isn't trustworthy. Of course they claim it's for generating power. What else would they say? We want to dominate the region, and fund and launch attacks on Israel, with a nuclear deterent to prevent Israel from retaliating?

And monitors, huh? You think Tehran will allow them unfettered access to every facility they have at anytime? What about military sites? You are really going to go on record saying you believe that?

And like I said before, the US isn't the only country concerned about Iran. Canada is as well, of course, Europe has taking a leading role, and even Russia and China are uncomfortable with the situation. The world is rightly worried about a regime like Iran getting nukes, because the high probability of Iran using them, or threatening to use them, makes the region incredibly more volatile and less stable than it even is now. (which of course is saying something)

BTW, I noticed you said Iran was a benign regime. Even you won't say it is now.

Even if Iran did produce a nuke they would have to be the most suicidal nation in history to launch a strike. Like Chirac said it wouldn't get of the ground before Iran was hit. If you believe Iran represents a threat in your life you should turn the lights out and hide under your bed before the islamofascists come with thier aircraft carriers to invade Canada and capture Ottawahahaha.Dosn't seem to bother you that you live next to the biggest stockpile of nukes on the planet and the owners have used them and have threatened to use them again.:laughing7::laughing7::wave:
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
So you really take Iran at their word, huh? Hmm...ok. Everyone can have their opinion.

The thing of it is though, Iran isn't trustworthy. Of course they claim it's for generating power. What else would they say? We want to dominate the region, and fund and launch attacks on Israel, with a nuclear deterent to prevent Israel from retaliating?

And monitors, huh? You think Tehran will allow them unfettered access to every facility they have at anytime? What about military sites? You are really going to go on record saying you believe that?

And like I said before, the US isn't the only country concerned about Iran. Canada is as well, of course, Europe has taking a leading role, and even Russia and China are uncomfortable with the situation. The world is rightly worried about a regime like Iran getting nukes, because the high probability of Iran using them, or threatening to use them, makes the region incredibly more volatile and less stable than it even is now. (which of course is saying something)

BTW, I noticed you said Iran was a benign regime. Even you won't say it is now.

You don't need a nuclear reactor to build a nuclear bomb. All you need is enough sufficiently concentrated fissionable material and the know how.

Iran isn't trustworthy? Compared to whom? Bush?

Right now, the country that is doing the most to destabilize the world is not Iran.

Does Iran have the capability right now, or even in the next decade to build a nuclear bomb that they could deliver it with anything but a very large truck, or a ship? I doubt it.

If I get stung by a couple dozen bees, can I blame the guy who poked at the hive with stick? I think I can.
 

blugoo

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
53
0
6
Even if Iran did produce a nuke they would have to be the most suicidal nation in history to launch a strike. Like Chirac said it wouldn't get of the ground before Iran was hit. If you believe Iran represents a threat in your life you should turn the lights out and hide under your bed before the islamofascists come with thier aircraft carriers to invade Canada and capture Ottawahahaha.Dosn't seem to bother you that you live next to the biggest stockpile of nukes on the planet and the owners have used them and have threatened to use them again.:laughing7::laughing7::wave:

First, you are assuming Iran has a rational, stable finger on the proverbial button. The threat of retaliation to someone who is wanting to bring about a war is less of a deterent that you might think.

And why might they want to bring about a seemingly suicidal war? Well, dig into that issue a little, and it might surprise you...

Second, I didn't say I feared for my life, nor am I an islamophobe, but nice try at a red herring. ;)

What I did say was that Iran having nuclear weapons would cause chaos in the middle east, which it absolutely would. It doesn't have to be taking place right under my nose for me to care if a disaster happens...does it for you?

And I'm curious...exactly who has America threatened to nuke?
 

blugoo

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
53
0
6
You don't need a nuclear reactor to build a nuclear bomb. All you need is enough sufficiently concentrated fissionable material and the know how.

Meaning what? That Iran must be telling the truth?

Iran isn't trustworthy? Compared to whom? Bush?

No, compared to uh...trustworthy.

Right now, the country that is doing the most to destabilize the world is not Iran.

Oh, please. I assume you are referring to the United States? This is such a liberal talking point crock.

Does Iran have the capability right now, or even in the next decade to build a nuclear bomb that they could deliver it with anything but a very large truck, or a ship? I doubt it.

So we should wait until they do have fully functional nuclear weapons?

If I get stung by a couple dozen bees, can I blame the guy who poked at the hive with stick? I think I can.

And what if those bees are determined to sting no matter what? Better to at least try to do something about them, than just cower while getting stung.
 

Dalreg

Electoral Member
Sep 29, 2006
191
1
18
Saskatchewan eh!
blugoo you sure have jumped on the band wagon against Iran. Where is your proof? I think you've been watching to much Bush on tv lately. The brainwashing may be starting to work.


I have to laugh at your other post stating that Iran with nuclear weapons will throw the middle east into chaos. As to what is going on now it can't get much worse.

Personally if Iran does have nuclear weapons it may help stabilize the region in the long run by forcing the USA to butt out. Why should the USA and it's lap dog Israel control the middle east. Last I checked Iran and Iraq were independent countries.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,412
1,668
113
I tend to believe that Iran is building a nuclear reactor, and not nuclear bombs. There is a big difference. Iran has already agreed to let observers in to monitor what is going on. All the crap from the U.S. and Britain is very reminiscent of all the "WMD garbage we heard about Iraq to justify the invasion.

Remember that Ahmadinejad DID say that he wants to wipe Israel from the map.