Shia kill those named OMAR

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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You wanna know why Shi-ites (Shi-i or Shia) kill guys named OMAR ?

Here we go:

May 8 2006

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0508/p06s01-woiq.htm


[FONT=Georgia, Times,]Death squads deepen division in Baghdad[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, san-serif;][SIZE=-1]Bombs Sunday killed at least 30; some 45 men were found slain in the capital. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, san-serif;][SIZE=-1]By Dan Murphy | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, san-serif;][SIZE=-1]BAGHDAD - Three apparently coordinated car-bomb attacks in Baghdad and Karbala killed around 30 people Sunday, as Iraqi politicians said they were near agreement on cabinet posts for a new government that they promise will come to grips with the country's deteriorating security situation.[/SIZE][/FONT]

The morning blasts were accompanied by reports that the bodies of about 45 men were found in various parts of Baghdad within 24 hours from Saturday morning. Most were bound, some bearing signs of torture, and all shot in the head.

Ever since the Feb. 22 bombing of a major Shiite shrine in the city of Samarra touched off dozens of reprisal attacks on Sunni mosques, Iraqis have reported a sharp rise in attacks at the hands of both Shiite and Sunni Arab death squads.

A Baghdad health official says there have been at least 2,500 murders in the capital since the Samarra shrine attack, adding that those numbers don't include the victims of mass-casualty attacks like those Sunday.

Today, Baghdad appears to be more divided and war-torn than at any point since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. Most basic services are at an all-time low (Baghdad is averaging about three hours of power a day) and traditionally mixed Shiite and Sunni Arab neighborhoods continue to feel the impact of the slow seeping away of their diversity as families flee across the city's confessional front lines.
Now, in addition to the four or so well-organized and armed nongovernment militias operating in this diverse city, small armed neighborhood militias are springing up in dozens of neighborhoods.

At around 9 p.m. each night, they roll palm trunks, rusty barrels or other obstacles onto the streets, trusting their protection to no one but themselves, say many residents of Baghdad.
"We've been told over and over that the political process is going to make us safer, but all we see are parties fighting over ministries so they can get jobs and money for themselves,'' says Ahmed, who helped organize a neighborhood militia in Baghdad's Al-Amal district. "If we don't protect ourselves, no one will."

Ahmed, a Shiite who asked that his full name not be used, says his decision to take action came after two pickup trucks with machine guns mounted in the back and filled with men wearing Interior Ministry commando uniforms streamed down his street at the end of February and took 17 men away.

His father's best friend - "we weren't related but I called him uncle" - was one of the men taken, after the men came to his door and asked for him by name. And Ahmed was among the young men that found the bodies of all 17 in a ditch the next morning, most bearing signs they'd been tortured with drills before their deaths.

"We called the ministry as soon as they were taken,'' he says. "They said they didn't know anything about it."

The good news about Ahmed's group is that it is a mix of Shiites and Sunni Arabs, and is being given a relatively free hand to control the neighborhood. He says a friend in the government got them the frequencies for 20 hand-held radios that they use to coordinate their checkpoints, and US patrols don't bother them.

"The humvees just roll right on by now,'' he says. "When we started, the Americans came to us, said they know we're guards, and told us as long as we don't point our weapons at them everything should be OK."
Still, more and more of the city's residents are being pushed into the arms of militias, many of which have either political agendas, are involved in criminal activity, or both.

The owner of an auto-parts store in downtown Baghdad says he is visited once a month by a group of men with pistols tucked under their shirts, demanding $300 in protection money. "They say they're with the insurgency and that they're protecting me from worse things,'' he says. "Who knows the truth ... I just pay. We all pay."

Abu Omar, a barrel-chested Sunni Arab and former policeman, knew who his attackers were at the end of last month. He was living in Baladiyat, a neighborhood in East Baghdad on the edge of Sadr City, which has 2 million residents who are more or less controlled by Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia.

Around midnight, seven cars roared down his street. One of the vehicles, a Toyota Landcruiser, burst through his front gate while men with rifles, grenades, and black masks poured into his yard, breaking the windows in his car and at the front of his house with their rifle butts, shouting "where's Omar, where's Omar,'' the name of his 18-year-old son.

Omar scrambled over a back fence and found safety in a neighbor's house, while his father was taken away for five hours of interrogation. "They told me that they were from the Mahdi Army and I thought these were my last moments on earth,'' he says. "But after a while they got a call, and decided to let me go. But they also told me they'd kill my son when they got him."

Abu Omar says the men told them they were killing all young men named Omar and Bakar - popular Sunni names borrowed from early Islamic caliphs hated by Shiites. They said they would be back for his son. After his release he called the police for protection. "They told me that close to Sadr City there's nothing they could do for a Sunni."

The next day, like hundreds of Iraqi families, both Shiite and Sunni Arab, he fled his old neighborhood. In his case, he sought safety in a Sunni area to the west of the Tigris.
Despite promises from Iraq's new Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki that Iraq's militias would be reined in, groups like the fighters loyal to Mr. Sadr - who helped Mr. Maliki secure his new post - are becoming more assertive.

When a British helicopter was shot down in the largely Shiite southern city of Basra Saturday, killing the five men aboard, about 300 of Sadr's supporters rallied to attack British forces, who were moving to secure the wreckage and search for survivors, with Molotov cocktails and stones, setting four British armored vehicles alight.
 
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tamarin

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The more one reads about these people the more one realizes how primitive they are. And how does one overcome such institutionalized, intergenerational ignorance?
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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They're not primitive.

That's the view of any outsider.

We outsiders can't help it.

Uh oh.

Now you're gonna wanna use logic as a retort, eh ?

But we too, are much more an emotional product of our own culture, just as they are, and
all of us on both sides of this great issue think with great hubris how we look at this logically.

The truth is otherwise.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Add Barak to the list.

Barak and Omar are names the Shia like to kill. Barak and Omar are names that figure
prominently in the Sunni side of Islam.

I like that: SUNNI SIDE OF ISLAM.

As opposed to the SHI-ITE SIDE OF ISLAM.
 

Sassylassie

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Jan 31, 2006
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Add Barak to the list.

Barak and Omar are names the Shia like to kill. Barak and Omar are names that figure
prominently in the Sunni side of Islam.

I like that: SUNNI SIDE OF ISLAM.

As opposed to the SHI-ITE SIDE OF ISLAM.


Jim you forgot to mention that the Sunnis have been using the ****es as slaves since the religion divided. I'm not surprised they want payback, and Saudia Arabia is funding the slaughter of the ****es in Iraq.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Oh yes, the Shia were SOOO opposed to slavery, look up their history in the slave trade.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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You look it up ZZarcav I don't need to look up their history I'm well aware of it, I've been studing Islam for 15 years and it gets uglier by the day. Ask the moderate African Muslims, well those who have survived the slaughter and genocide of China backed Sudan what it's like to be forced into Extreme Islam by the Arabs. Image being Liberated by the "French" who knew they had it in them. The latest out of Saudia Arabia: It appear the Shias are as vile as us infidels, boy so much hate so many to kill in the name of Allah.


CAIRO, Egypt: A top Saudi Arabian Sunni cleric on Friday declared Shiites around the world to be infidels who should be considered worse than Jews or Christians, the latest sign of increasing sectarianism in the Middle East.
Abdul Rahman al-Barak, one of the top several Wahhabi clerics in Saudi Arabia and considered close to the Kingdom's royal family, also urged Sunnis worldwide to oppose reconciliation with Shiites. The Wahhabi stream of Sunni Islam that is followed in Saudi Arabia is conservative and views Shiites as heretics.
"By and large, rejectionists (Shiites) are the most evil sect of the nation and they have all the ingredients of the infidels," Abdul Rahman wrote in a fatwa, or religious edict, that was posted on his web site Friday.
"The general ruling is that they are infidels, apostates and hypocrites," he wrote. "They are more dangerous than Jews and Christians," he wrote in the edict, which Abdul Rahman said was in response to a question from a follower.
Like most hardline Sunnis, Abdul Rahman employed the word "rejectionists," used as a derogatory term to describe Shiites because they opted out of the Sunni school of Islamic theology. He also said the sect was the work of a Jewish conspiracy.
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Abdul Rahman's remarks comes amid concern by many Sunni Arabs about what they perceive as a Shiite revival following the 2003 war that toppled Saddam Hussein in Iraq. They include Jordan's King Abdullah and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
Earlier this month, Nawaf Obeid, an adviser to the Saudi embassy in Washington, spoke of "massive Saudi intervention to stop Iranian-backed Shiite militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis" if the United States withdraws from the country. Saudi citizens are also reportedly raising funds for Sunni insurgents in Iraq.
Earlier this month, about 30 prominent Saudi Wahhabi clerics called on Sunni Muslims around the Middle East to support their brethren in Iraq against Shiites and praised the anti-American insurgency.
Thousands of Iraqis have been killed this year in sectarian bloodshed between the majority Shiites and the Sunni Arab minority, who lost their dominance after the fall of Saddam Hussein.
Saudi Arabia, like most Arab countries, is predominantly Sunni but has a significant Shiite minority.
sn-pq
 

RomSpaceKnight

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Oct 30, 2006
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The more one reads about these people the more one realizes how primitive they are. And how does one overcome such institutionalized, intergenerational ignorance?

Leave the country and let them fight it out. Why let your young men be killed then? Should Canada invade the US to save the lives of the 11,000 people killed by handguns every year in the US. If Ruwanda had oil there would have been no mass murders of Tutsis. Pull out of region let them redraw map as they see fit. provide safe areas for refugees and fast track their immigration papers like what was done for Vietnamese boat people. As the largest exporter of oil to the US we promise not to take advantage of the interruption of oil to US. We might relish the jackup in oil prices but we promise not gloat over it.

Canada and Mexico are 1 and 2 in exports of oil and gas to the US. So you will have to do without Saudi Arabia's oil for a while, big wup.
 

selfactivated

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Apr 11, 2006
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Leave the country and let them fight it out. Why let your young men be killed then? Should Canada invade the US to save the lives of the 11,000 people killed by handguns every year in the US. If Ruwanda had oil there would have been no mass murders of Tutsis. Pull out of region let them redraw map as they see fit. provide safe areas for refugees and fast track their immigration papers like what was done for Vietnamese boat people. As the largest exporter of oil to the US we promise not to take advantage of the interruption of oil to US. We might relish the jackup in oil prices but we promise not gloat over it.

Canada and Mexico are 1 and 2 in exports of oil and gas to the US. So you will have to do without Saudi Arabia's oil for a while, big wup.


I have to agree, its NOT our war. And 90% of the Military Men I talk to do NOT want to be there. We were dragged in under faulse pretenses and alternative adgendas , its time to bring our people home and let them clean up their own messes.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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It appear Moqtada Sadr is losing some grip on all the Shia militias, and has taken ugly
recriminations for his militia killing some innocents.

So now the Shia reprisals and Shia militia is lying quiet while American forces focus
on the Sunni insurgents.

Change is constant.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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L GilbertThey aren't primitive. They just see things differently than western peoples.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL. Tongue in cheek, hopefully, presumably.


That's the kind of understanding they count on.

No reciprocity however.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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http://www.slate.com/id/2165033/entry/0/#

This week Slate is publishing three excerpts from Christopher Hitchens' new book, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.
There is some question as to whether Islam is a separate religion at all. It initially fulfilled a need among Arabs for a distinctive or special creed, and is forever identified with their language and their impressive later conquests, which, while not as striking as those of the young Alexander of Macedonia, certainly conveyed an idea of being backed by a divine will until they petered out at the fringes of the Balkans and the Mediterranean.

But Islam when examined is not much more than a rather obvious and ill-arranged set of plagiarisms, helping itself from earlier books and traditions as occasion appeared to require. Thus, far from being "born in the clear light of history," as Ernest Renan so generously phrased it, Islam in its origins is just as shady and approximate as those from which it took its borrowings. It makes immense claims for itself, invokes prostrate submission or "surrender" as a maxim to its adherents, and demands deference and respect from nonbelievers into the bargain. There is nothing—absolutely nothing—in its teachings that can even begin to justify such arrogance and presumption.

The prophet died in the year 632 of our own approximate calendar. The first account of his life was set down a full hundred and twenty years later by Ibn Ishaq, whose original was lost and can only be consulted through its reworked form, authored by Ibn Hisham, who died in 834. Adding to this hearsay and obscurity, there is no agreed-upon account of how the Prophet's followers assembled the Koran, or of how his various sayings (some of them written down by secretaries) became codified. And this familiar problem is further complicated—even more than in the Christian case—by the matter of succession. Unlike Jesus, who apparently undertook to return to earth very soon and who (pace the absurd Dan Brown) left no known descendants, Muhammad was a general and a politician and—though unlike Alexander of Macedonia a prolific father—left no instruction as to who was to take up his mantle. Quarrels over the leadership began almost as soon as he died, and so Islam had its first major schism—between the Sunni and the Shia—before it had even established itself as a system.
 

tamarin

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Jun 12, 2006
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It is a wonder how those two groups, members of the same Islamic movement, can so viciously hate each other. Christian denominations have their differences, and some are acute, but such internecine rivalry and pure unadulterated hatred seem part of the past. Maybe that's part of the reason why folks in Iraq and Afghanistan are often regarded as primitive. They are engaged in the most primitive hostilities.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Who finalized the only acceptable version of the Koran ?

The Shia say it was Abu Bakr

But we swiftly discover that there is no certainty or agreement about the truth of the story. Some say that it was Ali—the fourth and not the first caliph, and the founder of Shiism—who had the idea.

Many others—the Sunni majority—assert that it was Caliph Uthman, who reigned from 644 to 656, who made the finalized decision.

Told by one of his generals that soldiers from different provinces were fighting over discrepant accounts of the Koran, Uthman ordered Zaid ibn Thabit to bring together the various texts, unify them, and have them transcribed into one.

When this task was complete, Uthman ordered standard copies to be sent to Kufa, Basra, Damascus, and elsewhere, with a master copy retained in Medina. Uthman thus played the canonical role that had been taken, in the standardization and purging and censorship of the Christian Bible, by Irenaeus and by Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria. The roll was called, and some texts were declared sacred and inerrant while others became "apocryphal." Outdoing Athanasius, Uthman ordered that all earlier and rival editions be destroyed.

Even supposing this version of events to be correct, which would mean that no chance existed for scholars ever to determine or even dispute what really happened in Muhammad's time, Uthman's attempt to abolish disagreement was a vain one.

The written Arabic language has two features that make it difficult for an outsider to learn: it uses dots to distinguish consonants like "b" and "t," and in its original form it had no sign or symbol for short vowels, which could be rendered by various dashes or comma-type marks. Vastly different readings even of Uthman's version were enabled by these variations. Arabic script itself was not standardized until the later part of the ninth century, and in the meantime the undotted and oddly voweled Koran was generating wildly different explanations of itself, as it still does.

This might not matter in the case of the Iliad, but remember that we are supposed to be talking about the unalterable (and final) word of god. There is obviously a connection between the sheer feebleness of this claim and the absolutely fanatical certainty with which it is advanced. To take one instance that can hardly be called negligible, the Arabic words written on the outside of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem are different from any version that appears in the Koran.

The situation is even more shaky and deplorable when we come to the hadith, or that vast orally generated secondary literature which supposedly conveys the sayings and actions of Muhammad, the tale of the Koran's compilation, and the sayings of "the companions of the Prophet." Each hadith, in order to be considered authentic, must be supported in turn by an isnad, or chain, of supposedly reliable witnesses.

Many Muslims allow their attitude to everyday life to be determined by these anecdotes: regarding dogs as unclean, for example, on the sole ground that Muhammad is said to have done so.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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This is from a web site called " Christians science monitor".


A web site which has link to "US Military Loans", "MIlitary Pensions Advance", great crédibility i see.
 

Pangloss

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Mar 16, 2007
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What does a humanist do in circumstances such as these? Part of me wants to split the country into three - a trifurcation, giving sunnis shi-ites and kurds their own territories.

As to the cultural development of the Iraqis: yeah, here in Canada we might have tension between ethnic groups, but it beggars reason to say we are as intolerant and murderous and brutal as the different factions in Iraq seem to be.

So, savages? In a very important way, yes.

Pangloss
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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This is from a web site called " Christians science monitor".


A web site which has link to "US Military Loans", "MIlitary Pensions Advance", great crédibility i see.

--------------------------------------Logic 7-------------------------------------------------------------------


Actually I quoted it from:


http://www.slate.com/id/2165033/entry/0/

This week Slate is publishing three excerpts from Christopher Hitchens' new book, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.