Tricking Americans into supporting war - Zinn interview

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/24/1442258

After reading that interview with historian Howard Zinn, even printing it out so I could highlight some phrases, I felt I needed to share some quotes and my thoughts on the ideas in it. I hope that some of you might print this article out at home, read it carefull, and then leave copies laying in public places... our "free press" will never print it for the newspapers, or interview Zinn on television, so we the people have to do it.

-------------------

"Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for being un-patriotic". That was the stated tactic that Goering confessed to at Nuremburg trials after WW2.

Bush recently used this 'public trickery' also, and upped the ante from not just the threat of terrorist attacks, but also 'weapons of mass destruction', and even the spectre of 'mushroom clouds' to raise the fear levels of the American public. Bush also said that the opponents of his invasion of foreign nations were "un-patriotic".

How predictable!! Its a playbook the Nazis used ; Bush and the global Elite loves it. If only we could have a clear view of history, of these tactics, then the public would catch on to these tactics being used on them and stop supporting the warmongering Elites that we give power to.

History can show us many examples of these tactics being used to propogate wars. All the way back to the American Civil war it happened - the public had to be 'convinced' to fight, sometimes it took mass executions to get them to do it, and even then they only joined up as a way to survive. Thats the furthest thing from "patriotic duty", but we still honour their patriotism in history books. It was not a united and free nation doing what is good. No, it was and still is today just a way of concentrating power and control by a Elite group of people by tricking, cajoling, or threatening the working class to join the army and to show support for the war machine.

So WW2, and the wars in Korea, Vietnam, and now Iraq/Afghanistan, plus all those forays into South America and the Phillipines, etc., and the entire "cold war', were all just contrived. They were 'arranged' so that the war machine could continue to divert billions and trillions of dollars into the hands of a few Elites so that they could continue their domination by the power that wealth gives them. The 'average people' who make up the majority could have made much better use of the nation's wealth that truly should belong to them.

Democracy is another area of total cynisism. Elections are great until they go the wrong way and elect a socialist. Even the 70% of public support that Chavez gets from Venezuelans does not get approval from Washington - they would rather see him DEAD!! [and have apparently tried to kill him thru the CIA]. America itself only has two choices, Dems and Reps, both on the same side, so there is no real "choice".

Nothing is sacred to these warmongers, these Elites who have wrangled control of everything. Religion is used to bolster the patriotic sentiments that are so essential for making war. The stable climate we were enjoying has been disrupted - what is a bigger crime against humanity and nature [and god too, for you believers!] than that?

So now terrorism has supplanted communism as the great threat created to frighten Americans, and to deplete the nation's wealth for the purposes of war and the enrichment of the Elites.

What is different at this time, late into 2006, is that people are starting to catch on!! The fear is wearing off. We are starting to hear familiar refrains coming from a desperate war machine and we have grown weary of the lies. "Enriching Urainium" in Iran is the latest "threat" that Bush has foisted upon Americans, but the ridiculousness of the Iranian nuclear threat to America has burst some bubbles - the USA has 10,000 nukes ready to use, Iran needs another 5 or 10 years to make just ONE nuke. Bush has relied on the 'created fear war formula' once too often.

conclusion:
We managed to abolish slavery, now it is time to abolish war, especially where an invasion of another nation is carried out - that will absolutely ensure that no major wars can begin, and that any 'attacks' can be dealt with in a sane and resonable manner. The persistant 'over-reaction' must end where 2500 people are killed and the response leaves a million dead and some foreign nation under direct American control, as has happened so often in their history. The United Nations had made a declaration at some point after WW2 "to not allow another invasion of soveriegn nations and pre-emptive war tactics", now we need to be able to enforce it.

Finally, this quote: "The Master Class has allways started the wars ; the Working Class has allways fought those wars" This ugly truth should have alerted the public long ago to the problem of warmaking by the Elites, and it is troubling that it didn't. It is troubling that the warmongers get elected in the USA, Britian, and in Canada now too.

Maybe there is a ray of hope for more public awareness of this conspiracy in the turfing of Republicans [mid-term elections]in mid-war, and in that the 'created fear' is wearing thin, and in the South American socialist movement, and in acceptance of global warming from fossil fuels emissions. We might yet move to the kind of world we know we want, and that we can have. Prosperity, peace, clean energy, and actual democracy are all waiting for us to reach out and take them, if we can break free of the chains that the Elites have put on us.
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
Oh brother are you and this nit-whit for real?

Here is another newsburst from the 'Taliban Tattle"

newsflah for Dec. 4, 2006

Fellow Muslims' praise allah, the propoganda war is praise allah,working!!!

We have a very reliable source praise allah,
that comfirms our 'conspiracy' mission, praise allah,
and has been adopted and has successful fractured the stupid NATO countries, praise allah,
to believe there government is attacking wrongfully, praise allah,
and using them, and praise allah,
wasting there money, praise allah, ..
the idea of sheik alibaba, praise allah,
of gathering sympathy for our Fundemental Islamist World Take-over , praise allah,
has begun...this is another moment of celebration, praise allah,
showing the stupidity of westerners, praise allah,
so let's now go and celebrate, praise allah,
and kidnap some soldiers, praise allah.,
and maybe some reporters, praise allah,
and torture them, praise allah,
you know chop off their heads, praise allah,
after a long and entertaining torture, praise allah,
and we will tell them how stupid, praise allah,
their NATO-JEWISH/CHRISTIAN/HINDU entrance into our invitation of war, praise allah,
is now being ripped into shreds, praise allah...
MAYBE if we achieve our goal they will be stupid enough to believe this and remove troops, praise allah,
and then we can attack their homes, they are that stupid, l think we can convince them, praise allah,
because they are stupid enough to believe that their government would conspire against them,
praise allah..."

---just ripped from the bowels of the taliban newstrash....
and anyone who is stupid enough to actually believe the contents of that idiot you quoted is stupid enough to believe the propaganda nonsense of the Taliban =, Hamas and Hezzbollah, and even while ignorance is an excuse for such belief, forwarding such a view is a dazzling spectacle of hypocracy.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Good rebuttal Northstar, Bear's post tying the Nazi's with these radicals convinced me they are pure evil. Of course the Left Leaning Libs think they really really like us but it's our policies they hate. Sure okay, and then they beheaded us. :evil3:
 

RomSpaceKnight

Council Member
Oct 30, 2006
1,384
23
38
61
London, Ont. Canada
I wouldn't go so far as to compare Bush and buddies to the Nazis but the WMD thing was a ruse to justify going into Iraq. The US went into Iraq because Afganistan is to far from center of things. Iraq is centrally located so terrorists and terrorist wannabees can get there easily and be killed in droves by US army. What is the kill ratio 100-1. So what if a few Iraqi civilians get caught in cross fire. As long as American civilians aren't dying. Give the US 5 years and an entire generation of wannabee terrorist will be killed. The rest will only know a culture of Pepsi and Nike. The US gets b!tch slapped on 9/11 and every one pays. You call that a war. 2300 or so people died on 9/11. 3500 people died in the first night of the blitz on London during WWII. My parents lived in Hull and were evacuated to countryside for a while. My mum told of waking up to find a mine on front porch (the kind with the pointy detonators sticking out for sinking ships). My dad could still recognize the sound of a Merlin engine as Spits and Hurricanes showed up to drive of Hun bombers. You ran around with tin hat on so falling shell casings would not brain you. That is a war! 9/11 was a tragedy and punishing the Taliban for harbouring Osama was justified but Iraq is overkill. But then again that is how the US army fights. Nice toys but couldn't beat a bunch of illiterate goat herders. US had the entire world's symapathy after 9/11 and threw it back in everyones face by invading Iraq because junior wanted to finish the job his daddy didn't. I totally support operations in Afganistan. We Canadians went in to support our friends and neighbours and fulfill our treaty obligations. The old British Empire ended at the Khyber pass thru the Hindu Kush mountains. The USSR could not conquer the place. It has to be one of the worst places to fight in. Did not the Scicilian assasin from the "Princess Bride" warn about getting into a land war in Asia.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
65
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
For those who think that only left leaning libs equate Bush with fascism or who feel he did not lie the USA into a war, all they have to do is to read conservative Republican Kevin Phillips' book American Theocracy:





There's the full truth about Bush's treasonous war. And it's from a right winger!
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
Gopher you are spamming, that is the third or fourth or fivth time you have peddled that piece of trash...you need to get a new book to read, how about 'ALICE IN WONDERLAND' it is on the same level as that collection of fables...
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Gopher

Merry Christmas Gopher!

Don't let these wastes of skin who frequently crawl out from the primordial ooze under the Conservative platform get you down. We've watched for decades as the putty-like minds of the average conservative are moulded around the myths and lies of politicians and con-men who promise to protect the wealth of these the enthusiastically mediocre. In the face of billions of dollars thrown into this "war on terrorism" which is when all is said and done the name these con-men politicians and their supporters call the invasion of Iraq...never mind the pointless trail of body bags and the eagerness inspired by these actions among the radicals of the world to take up arms and increase the carnage...hell no the neocon/fascists that bought into the Bush/Rumsfeld/Powel "bait and switch" routine have never been able to admit to their mistakes so it's little suprise they don't now....

It's difficult enough to extend lattitude in understanding to the henchmen and warmongers fed and paid-for by the conservatives in the United States in the name of securing their future oil supply regardless of the cost in blood to many nations but having to extend lattitude to the right-wing nutbars on this website demands the patience of a saint.

I can only hope that sufficient numbers of body bags contained the remains of the sons and daughters of right-wing idiots like those represented here at Canadian Content and will give these hate-embracing war-mongering sub-humans at least some pause to consider the wisdom of their choices...

Loving compassionate and tolerant folk across the face of the planet deserve and will celebrate a happy holiday season and hopefully there will be sufficient numbers of intolerant hater's who lack vision foresight and compassion celebrating around the funeral pyre to impress on their children the stupidity of their parents choices....
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
The US gets b!tch slapped on 9/11 and every one pays. You call that a war.
Romspacegk

I find it unbelievable that their are people out their who call the attack of NATO and the murder of millions of unarmed and unprepared people as 'B1tch SLAPPED".

My parents and grandparents were also involved in the WW2 and so l grew up appreciating the incredible sacrific that was made for the world we live in today, and since they immigrated, l am very very grateful for this incredible Peace and Freedom that was bought by the past generations.

The war was declared on NATO, not just through the unprovoked attack, heindoneous murder, devestating [to this day] destruction. But also through the massive celebration of the tragedy and the hatred of the Islamists that preached a hatred on the same scale, and even greater than Nazi's had on Jews and those who they considered non-AYREAN and allied with these groups.

The hatred is a greater threat because it is deeply ingrained and brainwashed from the incubation of a mini-terrorist in the womb of a hate filled Islamic Mother. They simply can't see another way of life because it has never been presented. The hate is religion [or cult], brainwashing [through school, toys and encouragement ], cultural, tribal, familial, and the verses are filled with deception, hatred and violence.

The second factor is nuclear weaponry, which the U.S and other NATO Alliance Countries learned through reputable accurate intelligence was in the hands and about to be in the hands of those countries which had currently and historically made public announcements of their intent towards the West. While is was not found immediately, it still existed, and now we have the evidence.

Neither of these above two factors were present in the Nazi threat. There are similarities, but the deep tribal religious drive, and the nuclear threat were not present.

For this reason the Middle-East has and still does pose a threat that is even more sinister than WW2 and the effort to get control and stabilize the influence of the Terrorist Islamic Fanatics is so pressing that the US politicans that hate Bush cannot deny the facts. And they would LOVE to undermine Bush and make themselves look like hero's which they have failed at, looking frustrated stupid and old all in one sweep.

So, unlike the bombs and hand to hand combat of our fathers and mothers generation, the TWO factors l have outlined "Neither of these above two factors were present in the Nazi threat. There are similarities, but the deep tribal religious drive, and the nuclear threat were not present. "
make this a greater threat than WW2, and hopefully the generations that follow us will reflect we did the right thing in fighting for freedom and peace... Instead of coming up with such an obvious lack of understanding of the culture, the religion and the issues, as l have read in previous postings.

So your argument does not hold water.
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
MILKY, really, you need to get away for a holiday, you just seem to ooze hatred and l find that when a person oozes hatred they are really hating themselves...and l didn't bother, like most people to read anything other than from curiosity l began to count all the negative comments...because of course it is impossible to get what you are really saying...
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/24/1442258

After reading that interview with historian Howard Zinn, even printing it out so I could highlight some phrases, I felt I needed to share some quotes and my thoughts on the ideas in it. I hope that some of you might print this article out at home, read it carefull, and then leave copies laying in public places... our "free press" will never print it for the newspapers, or interview Zinn on television, so we the people have to do it.

-------------------

"Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for being un-patriotic". That was the stated tactic that Goering confessed to at Nuremburg trials after WW2.

Bush recently used this 'public trickery' also, and upped the ante from not just the threat of terrorist attacks, but also 'weapons of mass destruction', and even the spectre of 'mushroom clouds' to raise the fear levels of the American public. Bush also said that the opponents of his invasion of foreign nations were "un-patriotic".

How predictable!! Its a playbook the Nazis used ; Bush and the global Elite loves it. If only we could have a clear view of history, of these tactics, then the public would catch on to these tactics being used on them and stop supporting the warmongering Elites that we give power to.

History can show us many examples of these tactics being used to propogate wars. All the way back to the American Civil war it happened - the public had to be 'convinced' to fight, sometimes it took mass executions to get them to do it, and even then they only joined up as a way to survive. Thats the furthest thing from "patriotic duty", but we still honour their patriotism in history books. It was not a united and free nation doing what is good. No, it was and still is today just a way of concentrating power and control by a Elite group of people by tricking, cajoling, or threatening the working class to join the army and to show support for the war machine.
.



Usa will never be able to kill chavez, they can dream about it, but they never will , their stupidity they did with pinochet in chilie, and everything they did to cuba , is all in south america peoples mind, one day united states will pay very hard what they did to them.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
Usa will never be able to kill chavez, they can dream about it, but they never will , their stupidity they did with pinochet in chilie, and everything they did to cuba , is all in south america peoples mind, one day united states will pay very hard what they did to them.

How exactly is the United States going to pay?
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
LOL, you pinned it Durka, DUrka!!!

their stupidity they did with pinochet in chilie, and everything they did to cuba , is all in south america peoples mind, one day united states will pay very hard what they did to them.
the belguin muslim

I was trying to follow this and understanding that this is your second language, l tried to piece what you are TRYing to say, is it this perhaps-

That the USA is stupid for the situation in Chili, l assume you are referring to the country not the sauce...

That they 'did' 'everything' [meaning?} to Cuba?

That something...l'm not sure what...is in the 'south american' people's mind...l assume you are now hoping over to Brazil, Venezuala and the rest of South America here...and what are you referring to????

and so Logic what the heck are you trying to say, chili, cuba, south america and the USA will pay...good grief you are going all over the place within the span of one sentence and demanding that the USA is responsible for every nasty little countries ill wishes. You are making no sense at all...

you got it Sassy, sleeper cell alert ...no compreda zee language or geography...sleeper cell alert....LOL
 

RomSpaceKnight

Council Member
Oct 30, 2006
1,384
23
38
61
London, Ont. Canada
There was no massive celebration in Islamic countries after 9/11. There were staged rallies but the vast majority of Muslims were as horrified as the rest of us. The US did not have to go in to Iraq. The Isrealis would have bombed the hell out of any one in the region who professed to be their enemy and had aquired nukes or WMDs. They hit Saddams enrichement facilities before and are quite capable of hitting Iran's. A bit of cash, replavement of the bombs used and covert intel was all that was required.
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
oh, yeh sure ROMSPACETHING,

The celebration plastered on every newscast across Canada, the USA, the UK and the world that featured the people in Islamic costume gabbering and screaming away and waving psoters filled with hatred and satanic verses of the Quran...

that was just staged right?

sure....
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
16
No l am not anti-Muslim, infact l see Muslim people as very dedicated and more loyal than probably any other religion. I am horrified by the contents of the Quran, and how it is followed to this day by the fanatical Islamists. I am horrifed by the evidence of the verses in action.

I found some glimmers of hope when l read that Asian Muslims want to revise the Quran so it is up to date and works in today's Western and Asian civilizations.

I think that Muslim people have been mislead by a Warlord who sought to justify a highly questionable, immoral and criminal lifestyle. He called himself a Prophet and people believed him and believe in the tale to this day. I feel they are a group of devoted people who have been mislead and decieved. And they deserve to have a nation that is peaceful and fruitful for their children to come into the world without the discriminatory LAWS of the Jihad Fanatics....

So when l said satanic verses l was referring to those verses notably 9/11, that are about hatred, murder, slavery and peophilia...l don't see anything God like about these commands to murder, be intolerant and create a world of fear and suffering.

It is obvious the misunderstanding and the limited view the Islamic Middle-East community has about Western civilizations when they believe we are just as devoted to one religion as they are to theirs. This is evidenced in their belief that the Pope is the leader of the World.

So l wish that Muslims have every opportunity to find the peace and freedom that all humans should have, and to allow the massive humanitarian aid to flow into their countries. In the past, the west has been very ready to support efforts towards peace and have been posed to sympathetically support these Islamic countries. Now the world is again posed for a huge humanitarian effort in order to rebuild this suffering part of the world.

I am supportive of Muslims, they deserve decent leadership and a peaceful existance. no question.
 
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I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
For those who think that only left leaning libs equate Bush with fascism or who feel he did not lie the USA into a war, all they have to do is to read conservative Republican Kevin Phillips' book American Theocracy:





There's the full truth about Bush's treasonous war. And it's from a right winger!

But when Noam Chomsky says the 9/11 conspiracies and the alleged stolen elections is a bunch of bull****, nobody on the fringe left quotes him.


:smilebox:
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
65
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
Gopher

Merry Christmas Gopher!

Don't let these wastes of skin who frequently crawl out from the primordial ooze under the Conservative platform get you down. We've watched for decades as the putty-like minds of the average conservative are moulded around the myths and lies of politicians and con-men who promise to protect the wealth of these the enthusiastically mediocre....


....................................................................................................


Mikey,

A Merry Christmas to you!



What Northstar in his blind hatred for the truth fails to realize is that Phillips is a conservative. Perhaps like Bush, his quest for war profits is what causes his blindness.

If Bush's war is so morally correct, perhaps the genius Northstar can explain why the recent election was so one sided and why the vast majority of people who were surveyed said that they voted Democrat because that party is anti war.

As Bush said today, "it's a tough time". And he's right -- a tough time for him and his defenders. The sheer lunacy of these fanatics is utterly unbelievable.