Woman faces fines for wreath peace sign

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
By ROBERT WELLER, Associated Press Writer
A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.
Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.
"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.
Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."
Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.
"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus."
The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."
The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.
Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.


Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
They'd HATE me for a neighbor! Ive pagan and anti-war signs all over my door and car.


Me too, minus the pagan symbols of course, but I do have a peace symbol on my car bumper..

If it was my house, I'd not only refuse to take it down, I'd never pay the fine..what ever happened to the famous American "free speech" we hear so much about!?
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
Also, just because some people are too stupid to recognize a peace sign, and think it's a satan sign, is no reason for anyone to be fined.
In America, if your not for the war, your anti-american. Pure nonsense.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
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Richmond, Virginia


Peace Sign




Upright Pentacle/Pentagram




Inverted Pentacle/Pentagram


All very different and In looking these up I learned alot about these symbols and how far they go back in history not only that but used by a variety of orginizations and religions AND countrys! Very interesting indeed



 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
By ROBERT WELLER, Associated Press Writer
A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.
Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.
"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.
Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."
Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.
"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus."
The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."
The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.
Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.


Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press

The key words here are HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. She signed the contract to live there. She is required to obey the regulations, and she has no one to blame for the current situation but herself.

There are other situations going on here in CO, such as one man having to take down the words "Merry Christmas" from his house because of an HOA rule, funny how the press seemed to miss that one though...
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
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Home Owner's Ass. are like freaking plucking cults, some members live and breathe finding infractions to enforce. I'd rather be in a nursing home than be a member of a Home Owner's Ass but she new there where rules when she bought la Maison.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
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Richmond, Virginia
By ROBERT WELLER, Associated Press Writer
A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.
Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.
"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.
Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."
Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.
"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus."
The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."
The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.
Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.


Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press

She didnt break any rules its a wreath NOT a sign or billboard.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
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Great Satan
She didnt break any rules its a wreath NOT a sign or billboard.

Its semantics...

She gave up the right to express herself "freely" when she signed the HOA.

She was free to choose somewhere else to live, was she not?

And heres what will happen if she doesnt pay the fines, or take the wreath down.

The fees will accumulate, late charges will be applied, eventually a lawyer for the HOA will get involved, and ultimately she could be forced into foreclosure. Its happened. Courts recognize HOA agreements. She will have a hard time beating this.

But, I really don't care, its her problem. She can hang whatever she wants on her house, if people don't like it they don't have to look. But like Sassie said, some HOA's have people in them with nothing better to do than cruise the neighborhood all day looking for violators.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
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Richmond, Virginia
If someone signs a contract isnt that contract binding? Im no lawyer but thats just fundimental. She didnt break the rules. It would be like someone hanging a wreath with a lighted star in the center, at my house it would mean Merry Yule but it means something else to someone else. Maybe to her it just means peace on earth. In any case they dont have a leagal case because no rules were broke. Just my 2 cents
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
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The Evil Empire
Thomaska is correct. It's really as simple and stupid as that. You sign the contract, it is open to interpretation. She wanted a Homeowners Association? It's private property. Suck it up.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Anyone ever read the inch thick CC&R's given to possible homeowners in a PUD or Condo or Townhouse development with common property ownership??? I think they are called Strata in Canada

Some can even have jurisdiction over what kinds of plants used in your landscaping (front and back) and especially trees/shubs used in the front areas.

They have rules like the length of time your garbage can can be out on the road for pickup and dumping and how those same cans have to be behind a fence enclosure when not in use (fence height also dictated by HOA).....

Window coverings are another little handy item they stick in -they want everyone's front windows to look similar....

If you want to see a mini-Communism at work - alive and well - have a go at a CC&R some day.... I read a couple and could not believe they were acceptable in the U.S. (or any free nation).
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
If someone signs a contract isnt that contract binding? Im no lawyer but thats just fundimental. She didnt break the rules. It would be like someone hanging a wreath with a lighted star in the center, at my house it would mean Merry Yule but it means something else to someone else. Maybe to her it just means peace on earth. In any case they dont have a leagal case because no rules were broke. Just my 2 cents

Here's another silly situation: A disc Jockey on a local popular morning radio show here in CO, spelled out Merry Chrsitmas in lights on his house, I think I mentioned this earlier...anyways, He is facing the same legal fight as the wreath woman. Why?

Because the words "Merry Christmas" are devisive in todays' PC culture. He can have the words" Happy Holidays" up, the HOA in his case, told him he could. But Merry Christmas is out. It is obviously too offensive for anyone to be expected to tolerate...
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
Its semantics...

She gave up the right to express herself "freely" when she signed the HOA.

She was free to choose somewhere else to live, was she not?

And heres what will happen if she doesnt pay the fines, or take the wreath down.

The fees will accumulate, late charges will be applied, eventually a lawyer for the HOA will get involved, and ultimately she could be forced into foreclosure. Its happened. Courts recognize HOA agreements. She will have a hard time beating this.

But, I really don't care, its her problem. She can hang whatever she wants on her house, if people don't like it they don't have to look. But like Sassie said, some HOA's have people in them with nothing better to do than cruise the neighborhood all day looking for violators.

She won't have any trouble beating this crap. It's not a sign, or a billboard, or anything but a peace symbol wreath.

All she would have to do is prove the symbol is a peace symbol, which is easy to do, and then sing:

Peace on Earth
And Mercy Mild
God and Sinner
Reconciled

....

Nolo Problemo. If I were her, I'd countersue for anti Christian religious intolerance.
 

Dalreg

Electoral Member
Sep 29, 2006
191
1
18
Saskatchewan eh!
Its funny how the committee in charge refused to ask her to take it down thus the board president fired the committee members. I didn't realize that associations were run be dictators.

If the association had no problems with it and obviously they didn't because they didn't ask her to remove it. What is all the fuss about. This is a case of a power hungry president trying to throw his weight around. I wonder how hard it will be to find new committee members to sit on the board.
 

Dalreg

Electoral Member
Sep 29, 2006
191
1
18
Saskatchewan eh!
The key words here are HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. She signed the contract to live there. She is required to obey the regulations, and she has no one to blame for the current situation but herself.

There are other situations going on here in CO, such as one man having to take down the words "Merry Christmas" from his house because of an HOA rule, funny how the press seemed to miss that one though...

We don't know if she signed anything to live there. The association could have been started after the development was built. You can't assume anything.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Dalreg

Hi - if the Association has the ability to request removal of her wreath and to sue her daily for non-compliance - they have the Rules and Regulations in place.

These little tinpot dictators (and many of them become just that sitting on these homeowner boards)...love to enforce all the rules.

I have seen communities get into a real stand off over something like this and the homeowner receives donations for his or her fines ... it happens a great deal around the holiday times when everyone has an opinion about how we display our celebrating.

I think they have a tiger by the tail however with a Peace Sign incorporated into the wreath - the homeowner is making a point... and a rather valuable one...

Peace apparently has become political and there are those who deny its right to be offered as a solution.