Peace Breaks Out in the Middle East


earth_as_one
#1
Israel Palestine agree to ceasefire

Quote:


By Nidal al-Mughrabi
GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian militants will cease firing rockets at Israel from Gaza on Sunday, President Mahmoud Abbas told Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who pledged in return to halt attacks in the territory if the salvoes stopped. "President Abbas and Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh agreed with all factions and resistance groups on calm, including the stopping of rocket fire, starting from 6 a.m. (0400 GMT) on Sunday," Abbas spokesman Nabil Abu Rdainah said....

today.reuters.com/news/articl...e-C1-topNews-3 (external - login to view)

Last edited by earth_as_one; Nov 25th, 2006 at 07:43 PM..
 
earth_as_one
#2
The truce is off to a shaky start as Palestinian militants fired 3 rockets within the first hours of the truce. However the leaders of all major Palestinian militant groups say they are committed to the truce. Obviously some groups have problems controlling individuals within their organizations.

Given time, the ceasefire should eventually take hold on the Palestinians side.

Quote:

PA security forces begin deploying in Gaza to prevent Qassam fire

By Avi Issacharoff, Aluf Benn, Jack Khoury and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents and Agencies

Palestinian Authority security forces began deploying along the Gaza Strip's border with Israel on Sunday, in order to prevent Palestinian militants from firing Qassam rockets at Israel in violation of the cease-fire.

A short time earlier, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas ordered the heads of Palestinian security forces to ensure that Gaza militants respect the truce, Palestinian officials said.

Three Qassam rockets hit Israel in the first few hours after a truce between Israel and Palestinian militant factions in the Gaza Strip went into effect, causing no damage or injuries. Hamas and Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility...

..."This is a violation and [Abbas] calls it a violation, and urges all to abide by the agreement that should be honored for the interest of the Palestinian people," he said.

Islamic Jihad and Hamas military wings said the rocket fire was in response to the arrest of two Hamas operatives in Hebron, despite earlier pledges not to violate the truce in response to West Bank incidents and despite the fact that the arrests took place prior to 6 A.M.

Hamas officials also said that the Qassams were fired because Israel had not removed all of its forces from Gaza, a claim that Israel denied.

The Palestinian Authority later released a statement confirming that all Israel Defense Forces troops had indeed withdrawn from the Strip.

A spokesman for Islamic Jihad said his group fired rockets into Israel at 8 A.M., two hours after the start of the truce, and denied his group had signed on to the cease-fire agreement.

Despite the claims of responsibility, a spokesman for the Hamas-led Palestinian government, Ghazi Hamad, said all the armed groups had committed to the agreement, and any violations were rogue acts...

www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/792512.html (external - login to view)

 
I think not
#3
Hold your breath, the UN will release a statement condemning the attack. Not.
 
CDNBear
#4
You beat me to the punch line ITN, you got your coffee first I guess.
 
earth_as_one
#5
Palestinian militants are not organized in a hierarchy. Instead they are organized into cells. When an individual militant is captured, the only information they know relates to their cell, making it difficult for Israel to penetrate Palestinian militant groups. Even leaders of the various militant groups don't know who their members are or even how many cells exist. Since each cell is more or less autonomous, that also makes them difficult to control.
 
selfactivated
#6
(take 2, remind me to copy before submitting, I keep loosing posts)

Isnt it amazing what can happen when two peoples are left alone to handle their OWN affairs! I didnt see Bush, UN, US at all mentioned in the article. Maybe just Maybe if people stay out of affairs that they have no business in wars will actually be stopped. Who knows. Humans acting like Human Beings (in the Shaman sense) theres a novel idea.
 
agentkgb
#7
I'm doubtful it'll last but at least it's something.
 
CDNBear
#8
I pray it does, it would be a nice x mas gift to the region.
 
earth_as_one
#9
Initially Israel rejected the Palestinian ceasefire offer.


Quote:

Israel rejects ceasefire proposal

An Israeli ground offensive in Gaza continues, as does the bombing

Israel has dismissed an offer by Palestinian militant groups to stop firing rockets into Israel, if Israel ends attacks on Palestinians.
An Israeli government spokeswoman, Miri Eisen, said the militants had offered only a partial ceasefire.
She said the offer of an end to firing rockets from Gaza showed a lack of real commitment to peace.
The conditional Palestinian offer was made after a meeting on Thursday of all armed factions, including Hamas. The militant group Hamas leads the Palestinian Authority. Israel has in the past consistently rejected ceasefire offers by Palestinian militants, saying it refuses to do deals of any kind with what it describes as terrorist organisations....


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6179588.stm (external - login to view)

Also Israel rejected a blueprint for peace suggested last week by Spain, France and Italy:

Quote:

...

On Wednesday of last week, Spain, France and Italy put forward a five-point plan to help end the conflict. The plan consists of the following: an immediate cease-fire, formation of a national unity government by the Palestinians that can gain international recognition, an exchange of prisoners - including the Israeli soldiers whose capture sparked the war in Lebanon and fighting in Gaza - talks between Israel's prime minister and the Palestinian president, and an international mission in Gaza to monitor a cease-fire.
Sounds reasonable. Nevertheless, sources in Israel reported that the plan has been rejected out of hand...

www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull (external - login to view)

Its likely that many nations quietly applied diplomatic pressure on Israel to accept the Palestinian ceasefire offer.
 
CDNBear
#10
They did not turn down the peace agreement, they turned down the "catches".

That's the problem on both sides, one side always has a "catch", the other is not willing to bend on them.
Last edited by CDNBear; Nov 26th, 2006 at 10:53 AM..
 
Colpy
Conservative
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Initially Israel rejected the Palestinian ceasefire offer.




Also Israel rejected a blueprint for peace suggested last week by Spain, France and Italy:



Its likely that many nations quietly applied diplomatic pressure on Israel to accept the Palestinian ceasefire offer.

Earth as One, here are some questions and answers for you......feel free to debate my answers and provide your own........

1) Why did the Palestinians sue for peace?
Because Israel has done an excellent job of kicking their **** over the last several months.

2) Why did Israel initially reject offers of a truce?
Because Israel has repeatedly, over and over again, signed on to truce after truce just to have rockets continue to fall on their territory..............exactly as is happening now.

3) Why has every truce failed?
Because every single time there is one Palestinian faction or another whose best interests are not served by peace............and they continue attacks on Israel until Israel responds, they with great fanfare anounce the cancellation of the "truce".

And I love this, from the Jerusalem Post article Earth as One posted above:
Quote:

The Oslo process collapsed in the fall of 2000 and, ever since, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has intensified with a vengeance. Compare the half dozen civilians killed inside Israel between the fall of 1997 and the fall of 2000, and the 1,125 Israelis and 4,286 Palestinians killed since.

And WHY did the Oslo agreement collapse?

Because Yassir Arafat returned from a peace conference empty-handed, and UNILATERALLY declared a new intifada.

But somehow Israel is at fault.

I really don't get it.
Last edited by Colpy; Nov 26th, 2006 at 10:47 AM..
 
earth_as_one
#12
One of Israel's conditions for a ceasefire is an end to arms smuggling and construction of tunnels. Unlikely Palestinian militant groups will respect that demand. The tunnels don't only smuggle arms, but also money, food and medicine which Israel blocks as a form of collective punishment.

Also, some elements in the Israeli government do not want peace. For example Israel's Deputy Prime Minister:

Quote:

Lieberman said that to ensure its survival, Israel must reject all past agreements and current interim proposals, from the failed Oslo Accords to the unimplemented US Road Map to Peace.
"Continued commitment to Oslo and to the Road Map will lead us to another round of conflict - a much bloodier round,” Lieberman said. “And in the end we will be in an even worse dead-end position that threatens our very existence in the future."
Lieberman dismissed efforts to empower Fatah chief and PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), whose group was trounced by the Islamist Hamas in the PA’s parliamentary elections. The newly appointed Minister of Strategic Threats said Israel should instead develop closer coordination with the Hashemite rulers of Jordan regarding administrating the Arab areas of Judea and Samaria.
“We have always targeted the wrong places and taken care not to speak with the right people. We are seeking a reliable partner and that only exists in Jordan right now. We have to coordinate with Jordan and say that Abbas is simply not relevant. We must ignore him. He has no authority and no power."
The Hashemite regime in Jordan is increasingly nervous that it will be overthrown by Islamist groups such as Hamas, which enjoy massive support among Jordan’s populace, a majority of whom consider themselves "Palestinian."

Quote has been trimmed
Which generated this Jordanian response:


Quote:

Nov. 19, 2006 22:39
Jordan rejects Lieberman comments as 'nonsense'
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
AMMAN, Jordan

Quote has been trimmed
So its doubtful the ceasefire will hold, but it is a step in the right direction.
 
earth_as_one
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Earth as One, here are some questions and answers for you......feel free to debate my answers and provide your own........

1) Why did the Palestinians sue for peace?
Because Israel has done an excellent job of kicking their **** over the last several months.

I suppose you could call what Israel does to Palestinians an **** kicking. I call it ethnic cleansing and genocide. Most of the people the IDF killed in Gaza during the last five months were innocent civilians, many were children and women. Israel also cut off supplies of food and medicine as well as destroyed civilian infrastructure which supplied water, electricity and treated sewage in violation of international laws. Those are the tactics which Israel employed during this latest battle to kick Palestinian asses. Not exactly legal or something to be proud of, but effective.

2) Why did Israel initially reject offers of a truce?
Because Israel has repeatedly, over and over again, signed on to truce after truce just to have rockets continue to fall on their territory..............exactly as is happening now.

I understand why you might have that misperception. You probably don't know that an Israeli assassination attempt and continued settlement building ended the last ceasefire. Our news usually doesn't report Israeli ceasefire violations. It only reports Palestinian responses to Israeli ceasefire violations creating a misperception like the one you have.

Remember "The Road Map to Peace"?

Quote:

May 25 2003
The Israeli cabinet reluctantly votes to accept the US-led "road map" to an independent Palestinian state within three years. But Ariel Sharon's government attaches opt-out clauses and demands which reinforce Palestinian fears that Israel is seeking to buy time.

The summit meeting between Ariel Sharon, Abu Mazen and the US president, George Bush, convenes in Aqaba, Jordan. Sharon pledges to support the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. Abu Mazen says: "The armed intifada must end." Fearing the road map will spell the end of illegal settlements on Palestinian land, thousands of Israeli settlers protest in Jerusalem.

June 10 2003
Israel draws stinging criticism from Washington, accusations of terrorism from its Palestinian partner in the peace process and a vow by Hamas to respond in kind after an army helicopter tried to assassinate the Hamas political leader in Gaza.

June 11 2003
A teenage suicide bomber dressed as an Orthodox Jew kills 16 people on a rush-hour bus in the heart of Jerusalem, fulfilling a vow by the militant Islamist movement Hamas to avenge a botched Israeli attempt to assassinate its political leader a day earlier.

www.guardian.co.uk/israel/page/0,,850553,00.html (external - login to view)

Quote:

In 2003, al-Rantisi survived an Israeli assassination attempt.

Suffering leg, arm and chest wounds, the spokesman escaped a US-made Apache helicopter gunship attack.

The helicopter fired seven missiles on his car, and killed two passersby - a mother and her five-year-old daughter.

Does an Israeli attack helicopter firing rockets at Palestinian cars on a crowded street and killing innocent bystanders count as a violation of a ceasefire? I think so, but maybe you don't, since you claim Palestinians always violate ceasefires first. Or maybe you were unaware of this incident because most western news sources didn't report it. But you probably are well aware of the suicide bombing a day later. That's why you have a misperception that Palestinians always violate ceasefire agreements first.

However in the case of this ceasefire, Palestinians did violate the ceasefire first and I notice that in this case, it is getting adequate coverage.
 
CDNBear
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Does an Israeli attack helicopter firing rockets at Palestinian cars on a crowded street and killing innocent bystanders count as a violation of a ceasefire? I think so, but maybe you don't, since you claim Palestinians always violate ceasefires first. Or maybe you were unaware of this incident because most western news sources didn't report it. But you probably are well aware of the suicide bombing a day later. That's why you have a misperception that Palestinians always violate ceasefire agreements first.

However in the case of this ceasefire, Palestinians did violate the ceasefire first and I notice that in this case, it is getting adequate coverage.

Nothing absolves anyone of wrong doing. Some actions are some what self explanitory and or opportunistic. I f I had the chance to remove a problem and only had a small window of opporyunity, I would take it. As was the case with the airstrike that you are talking about..

Now before you and others get all bent, I am not condoning the loss of innocent life, but you and others here have less then zero idea of what it is like to have to make snap decissions that may effect the future in a more then positive way for your side.
 
earth_as_one
#15
Interesting interpretation of what a "cease fire" means.

I believe a ceasefire is a temporary stoppage of a war, or armed conflict, where each side of the conflict agrees with the other to suspend aggressive actions. The first step on "Road Map to Peace" was supposed to be a bilateral cease fire.

Maybe what you meant is a unilateral ceasefire. Hamas also tried that:

Quote:

In January 2005, Hamas announced its resolution to replace armed struggle with political struggle and agreed to a unilateral ceasefire (“calm”). In the 17 months since then, Hamas has not perpetrated a single terrorist attack. According to security sources, since the election, Hamas has not even participated in the launching of Qassam rockets from Gaza, most of which are carried out by Fatah.(3)

www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=2546 (external - login to view)

Likely most people here didn't know that Hamas had declared and observed a unilateral ceasefire for 18 months. That's because it wasn't reported by our news.

Israel responded to Hamas's unilateral ceasefire with continued assassinations of Hamas leaders. Eventually Hamas ended its unilateral ceasefire.

Quote:

...As the Israeli government continued its policy of targeted assassinations and ramped up shelling of Gaza in response to Qassam rocket fire, there was no countervailing force to pull Hamas away from renouncing the unilateral ceasefire it had honored, more or less, for the previous 18 months. Jamal Abu Samhadana, the founder and leader of the Popular Resistance Committees and head of a new Hamas-led PA security force, was assassinated on June 8, and the next day, seven members of the Ghalia family were killed on a Gazan beach...

www.merip.org/mero/mero071806.html (external - login to view)

Also my reply to Colpy was not intended as a personal attack but a reply to what he said. My intent was to prove his statement about Palestinians always breaking ceasefires wrong.
 
earth_as_one
#16
The "Road Map to Peace" not only required both sides to cease violence, but also required Israel to dismantle new Jewish-only colonies, stop building Jewish-only colonies and to stop seizing land reserved for a Palestinian state.

But Israel didn't abide by those conditions either:

Quote:

Settlements and The Road Map (note: Road Map for Peace: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/22520.htm)
According to phase one of the Road Map, it is required that Israel “immediately dismantles settlement outposts erected since March 2001”. Instead Israel has chosen only to remove the 15 “outpost” it deems “unauthorized”, thereby rhetorically deeming the remaining 45 “authorized”.
Only four of the 15 outposts Israel dismantled were inhabited. The remaining 11 were so called “dummy outposts”, used as a tool for negotiations or public relations by the settler movement. (note: Ha’aretz, June 10 + July 18 2003).
During his visit to the States in mid July, Prime Minister Sharon said that Israel will "immediately" begin to remove unauthorized settlement outposts in the West Bank. (CNN Wednesday, June 4, 2003) Contrary to this statement Israel recently issued a tender for an additional 22 housing units in the Gaza Strip settlement. (www.haaretzdaily.com July 31, 2003)
The Road map also states that the Israeli government should have frozen "all settlement activity (including the natural growth of settlements)” by the end of May 2003. The many reports on settler expansion and of the establishing of new settlements has prompted Mossi Raz, a former Meretz Knesset...

Quote has been trimmed
Clearly Israel has a record of agreeing to ceasefires and then being the first to break them.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Nov 26th, 2006 at 02:38 PM..
 
CDNBear
#17
Clearly you are wrong.

There are no innocents in this.

The more you try to pin it all on Israel, the more you look like an apologist.

The Hezbollah and Hamas, have everything to gain without peace. What does Israel have to gain with war?
 
earth_as_one
#18
I never claimed Hamas or Hezbollah are innocent. Colpy tried to portray Israel as an innocent victim. The facts don't support that position.

Its a fact that Hamas maintained a unilateral ceasefire for 18 months while Israel destroyed homes, annexed property, destroyed civilian infrastructure, blocked food and medicine, killed hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians and assassinated Hamas leaders while our news demonized Hamas as a dangerous terrorist organization.

Its a fact that Israel violated the last ceasefire first by attempting to assassinate a Hamas leader and building illegal Jewish-only colonies on land reserved for a Palestinian state.

You ask what does Israel have to gain from war? Everytime Israel fights its neighbors, it ends up taking more land from its neighbors. These maps by the BBC tell the story:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...population.stm (external - login to view)

These maps by Passia tell Israel's story of ethnic cleansing

www.passia.org/palestine_fact...facts_MAPS.htm (external - login to view)

These maps also show how Israel grown through its annexation of land reserved for a future Palestinian state.

This map shows what the West Bank will look like after Israel finishes isolating Palestinians behind walls, guard towers and kill zones:



Once Israel has successfully turned what little land remains in possession of Palestinians into a series of concentration camps, it will complete the ethnic cleansing process by removing all non-Jews (including non-Jewish Israeli citizens) from all territory controlled by Israel. Already support for a final solution to the Arab Muslim problem is growing in Israel:

Quote:

Haaretz
More Israeli Jews favor transfer of Palestinians, Israeli Arabs - poll finds
By Amnon Barzilai

Some 46 percent of Israel's Jewish citizens favor transferring Palestinians out of the territories, while 31 percent favor transferring Israeli Arabs out of the country, according to the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies' annual national security public opinion poll.

In 1991, 38 percent of Israel's Jewish population was in favor of transferring the Palestinians out of the territories while 24 percent supported transferring Israeli Arabs.

When the question of transfer was posed in a more roundabout way, 60 percent of respondents said that they were in favor of encouraging Israeli Arabs to leave the country. The results of the survey also reveal that 24 percent of Israel's Jewish citizens believe that Israeli Arabs are not loyal to the state, compared to 38 percent who think the Arabs were loyal to the state at the beginning of the intifada....

www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages...ubContrassID=0 (external - login to view)

The logistics of this plan are described here on this Israeli website:

www.gamla.org.il/english/arti...2/july/b1e.htm (external - login to view)

The idea of transfer has support among mainstream Israeli political parties:

www.moledet.us/transfer.html (external - login to view)

including the current Israeli Deputy Prime Minister:

Quote:

Jews and Arabs can never live together, says Israel's vice PM
By Harry de Quetteville in Jerusalem, The Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:13am GMT 05/11/2006

When Avigdor Lieberman, a populist Israeli politician frequently compared to Austria's Jörg Haider and France's Jean-Marie le Pen, proposed to bus thousands of Palestinians to the Dead Sea and drown them there, he was just a fringe member of government.

That was three years ago. But last week the controversial nationalist joined the coalition government led by Ehud Olmert in a much more senior role, as vice prime minister with special responsibility for Israel's most pressing issue: the threat from Iran.

In his first interview since taking office – exclusively with The Sunday Telegraph – Mr Lieberman said that the best means of achieving peace in the Middle East would be for Jews and Arabs to live apart, including those Arabs who now live inside Israel...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../05/wmid05.xml (external - login to view)

and

Quote:

The Ethnic Cleansing Party Outpaces Likud

The Rise of Israel's Avigdor Lieberman

By SAREE MAKDISI

Everyone is talking about the successful-albeit lackluster-performance of Ehud Olmert's Kadima party in Tuesday's Israeli elections. Kadima won a marginal victory, gaining 28 seats in the Knesset, and giving Olmert the opportunity to form a government.

But in a sense the real winner of the elections was Avigdor Lieberman, leader of Yisrael Beiteinu, which pushed past Likud to become one of Israel's major parties-turning Lieberman into a potential kingmaker. This is a remarkable development because Lieberman's party stands for one thing: an Israel finally cleansed of the remainder of the indigenous Palestinian population....

www.counterpunch.org/makdisi03312006.html (external - login to view)

Why does Israel want war with Palestine? I doubt Palestinians who have been resisting Israel for 50+ years will allow the remaining 22% of Palestine to be annexed peacefully.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Nov 26th, 2006 at 07:26 PM..
 
earth_as_one
#19
Want proof that Israel provoked the Palestinian militant groups into war? Try explaining this assassination which effectively burned the "Road Map to Peace":

Quote:

...On Thursday, an Israeli Apache helicopter gunship fired three or four missiles at the car of moderate Hamas Spokesman Ismael Abu Shanab, killing him and two of his aides instantly.

It is difficult to figure out why Israel chose such a moderate leader, who on several occasions had voiced support for the creation of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel....

....Prior to his assassination, Abu Shanab played an active role in getting the rest of the Hamas leadership to accept the hudna (cease-fire) that was reached with Israel on 29 June after intensive Egyptian mediation.


Many considered Abu Shanab a pragmatic and moderate leader, who had an aversion for rhetoric. "What is the point in speaking in rhetoric," he said a few months ago. "Let's be frank, we cannot destroy Israel. The practical solution is for us to have a state alongside Israel."
Abu Shanab is survived by a wife, five daughters and four sons. his eldest son Hassan is studying computer engineering in the US. His youngest son, Mesk, is two-years-old...

weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/653/re1.htm (external - login to view)

This interview of Abu Shanab shows he wanted peace and was willing to accept a two state solution:

Quote:

...Paul Hilder: There was some talk recently of the possibility of a hudna, a ceasefire, and then the Israelis assassinated Salah Shehadeh, the leader of your military wing. Why was the hudna being considered?

Ismail Abu Shanab: It was to achieve calmness and live in peace with this generation. To give peace a chance: to discover if the Israelis are willing to live in peace. Because the Americans keep saying that the Palestinians are not serious. "Okay, we are serious about peace. Talk to Sharon.

Paul Hilder: What are the outcomes of the Shehadeh assassination?

Ismail Abu Shanab: We in Hamas are pretty convinced that Sharon is not listening to the voice of peace. But the Palestinians wanted to give a chance to the Arab leaders to pressure President Bush, to convince him to push Israel to withdraw from the territories.

We declared, via Sheikh Yassin, that if the Israelis are willing and ready to withdraw, Hamas is thinking of stopping its operations inside Israel. That was the first step toward calm, if the Israelis and Americans were serious....

fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=774 (external - login to view)

Explain how Israel wants peace when they break the ceasefire agreement associated with the "Roadmap to Peace" with continued assassinations, more settlement building and finally by assassinating the Palestinian who successfully got all the militant groups to agree to the ceasefire in the first place.

I'd like to know what makes people believe Israel wants peace? The evidence doesn't support that conclusion.
 
Logic 7
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

Hold your breath, the UN will release a statement condemning the attack. Not.



How many peoples are dead and wounded from this attack?? none and none.
 
Logic 7
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Want proof that Israel provoked the Palestinian militant groups into war? Try explaining this assassination which effectively burned the "Road Map to Peace":



This interview of Abu Shanab shows he wanted peace and was willing to accept a two state solution:



Explain how Israel wants peace when they break the ceasefire agreement associated with the "Roadmap to Peace" with continued assassinations, more settlement building and finally by assassinating the Palestinian who successfully got all the militant groups to agree to the ceasefire in the first place.

I'd like to know what makes people believe Israel wants peace? The evidence doesn't support that conclusion.


Israel doesnt want peace, it will means the end of their dream, look at what they have done to the palestinians in the last 50 years, and it is clear, they want to get rid of them by any means,so far they have done a pretty good job.
 
Logic 7
#22
and by the way , what happened to the 2 kidnapped israeli soldiers from lebanon?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7View Post

Israel doesnt want peace, it will means the end of their dream, look at what they have done to the palestinians in the last 50 years, and it is clear, they want to get rid of them by any means,so far they have done a pretty good job.

170,000 Arabs in Israel after the war in 1948, have turned into 1.3 million today.

711,000 Palestinian refugees in 1948, has turned into somewhere between 2.5 and 4 million today.

Personally, I don't think Israel is doing a great job of "getting rid" of them.
 
Logic 7
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

170,000 Arabs in Israel after the war in 1948, have turned into 1.3 million today.

711,000 Palestinian refugees in 1948, has turned into somewhere between 2.5 and 4 million today.

Personally, I don't think Israel is doing a great job of "getting rid" of them.



Exactly, don't you find something wrong with this??? nearly 4 millions of refugee?,look at the destruction done in palestine, from every point of view it is a disaster, the oppresssion of the palestinians is something we havent seen since the great wars. most of the refugee can't even go back to their land of their ancester( and i mean their direct ancester, not their 2000 years old of supposed ancester, i guess you know what i mean), constant attacks on palestinians citys, denying their basic human rights on a daily basis to keep a culture of hatred to justified their policy, is yes israel has done a pretty good job of getting rid of them.Look at what israel has taken from what the united nation gave initially to them, it is a outrageous.
 
I think not
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7View Post

How many peoples are dead and wounded from this attack?? none and none.

WTF does that have to do with issuing a statement of breaking a CEASEFIRE? Does someone have to die to make it wrong?
 
earth_as_one
#26
Whether or not anyone is killed doesn't matter. The missiles were a ceasefire violation.

The best information I can find about this was the militants that fired them thought Israel had broke the ceasefire when the IOF attacked a home in the West Bank. The original Palestinian ceasefire offer which included the West bank was rejected by Israel. Only when the Palestinians agreed that Israel could keep killing Palestinians in the West Bank, did Israel finally agree to stop killing Palestinians in Gaza in exchange for a halt in missile attacks from Gaza. Its in a link in one of my previous posts in this string.

Also here:

www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=12813 (external - login to view)

Apparently the militants that violated the ceasefire were unaware of that condition. They thought a ceasefire meant all Israeli attacks against Palestinians.

It would be pretty bad if the Israeli government used this minor violation as an excuse to renew the violence, but not a surprise. The Israeli government doesn't want a ceasefire. They would rather keep kicking Palestinian arses until Palestine has been wiped off the map and Israel is a pure Jewish state.

Israel initially rejected Palestinian offers for a ceasefire but finally relented under growing growing international pressure to reduce the level of violence.

Quote:

...Olmert's promise of Israeli restraint comes amid intensifying international pressure to lower the heat of the conflict and return to diplomatic dialogue, even as many Israelis themselves agitate for a full-scale re-invasion of Gaza to end the missile threat, which had escalated into daily attacks on the Israeli border town of Sderot...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...d=968332188492



Palestinians have been pushing for a ceasefire because they suffer chronic shortages of basic necessities like food and water.

If you want to know what its like in Gaza here are is a first hand account by Irish journalists:

Quote:

November 27, 2006
Does It Matter What You Call It?
www.counterpunch.org/christison11272006.html (external - login to view)

 
Logic 7
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

WTF does that have to do with issuing a statement of breaking a CEASEFIRE? Does someone have to die to make it wrong?


Good point, i can't says otherwise.
 
earth_as_one
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

What a mass of stupidity, ignorance, and misleading BULL****!

First of all, the first bit of film.........you know, about journalistic honesty?

Notice they talked a lot about occupation?

What they DIDN'T mention;

1. the thousands of rockets fired into Israel.

2. the fact Hamas does not recognize Israel, and is therefore impossible to negotiate with.

3. the fact that when the Israelis STOP the occupation (withdrawal from the Gaza Strip) attacks on Israel instantly intensify, with the area left to the Palestinians becoming a launch pad for aggression,.

4. The fact Israel and the PLO were headed towards a negotiated settlement in 2000, when Arafat started the latest intifada. ARAFAT started the latest intifada.

In the second piece, Galloway is SCUM...............absolute scum. An apologist and buddy of Saddam Hussein, an nasty idiot. AND Israel left Lebanon COMPLETELY in 2000........thus ending any legitimate reason for Hezbollah's existence. AND they nicely forgot to mention that Hezbollah wants to exterminate ALL Jews.......they are a 21st century Nazi party. Couldn't watch it all. Got me too upset.

Noam Chomsky. What a joke! Hypocrit, fool, a man that could only survive in the ivory tower of academia. Look to the comments on the first film to see what he FORGOT to mention.

(Also)
[...Israel has repeatedly, over and over again, signed on to truce after truce just to have rockets continue to fall on their territory..............exactly as is happening now.]

1) Hamas organized the current and previous ceasefire. Israel broke the last ceasefire first with a failed assassination attempt. The dozen rockets Israel's attack helicopter fired into a Palestinian crowd in direct violation of the terms of the "Roadmap to Peace" killed and wounded dozens of innocent bystanders. (see my post previous page)

For 18 months, Hamas maintained a unilateral ceasefire. (I have already posted numerous sources to back this up.) During that time, two other militant groups outside of Hamas control waged war with Israel. Israel knows the difference between Palestinian militant groups. While our news demonized Hamas, they never fired a single rocket or dispatched a single suicide bomber. Meanwhile Israel abducted and assassinated Hamas leaders, killed hundreds of innocent bystanders.

Our leaders not only failed to acknowledge Hamas's unilateral ceasefire, they ignored Israeli atrocities against Palestinians and cut food and medical aid to ordinary Palestinians.

2) Hamas has offered many times to negotiate directly with Israel. Hamas has offered longterm peace in return for 1967 boundaries. Israel not Hamas refuses to talk. Israel and the US conspire to overthrow Palestine's democratically elected leaders.

3) Gaza was a strategic retreat. With the settlers out of the way, soldiers freed from guard duty could carry out strikes and assassinations in Gaza. Meanwhile the Israel's propaganda machine portrays Israel's escalation as a compromise.

4) The spark which lit the current cycle of violence was Sharon's not so subtle suggestion that if he was PM, he would tear down Islam's third most holy site to build a Jewish Temple.

Quote:

Source: BBC
Al-Aqsa Intifada timeline

The second Palestinian intifada or uprising broke out at the end of September 2000 and is named after the Jerusalem mosque complex where the violence began.


Frustrations that years of the negotiation had failed to deliver a Palestinian state were intensified by the collapse of the Camp David summit in July 2000.
Ariel Sharon, then the leader of Israel's opposition, paid a visit to the site in East Jerusalem known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif, and to Jews as Temple Mount, which houses the al-Aqsa mosque - and frustration boiled over into violence.
The timeline below highlights the key events.
2000


Durrah was one of eight Palestinian children killed in the first three days


28 September: Ariel Sharon's visit to the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount - against the background of the failure of the peace process - provides one of the sparks that ignites a cycle of violence.
30 September: In one of the enduring images of the conflict 12-year-old Muhammad Durrah is killed during a gunbattle between Israeli troops and Palestinians in the Gaza strip, kindling Palestinian anger about the growing number of children killed by Israeli forces. The army initially apologises, but later casts doubt on whether its forces killed the boy.
17 October: The Sharm al-Sheikh agreement, brokered by President Clinton, aims to end the upsurge in violence. It breaks down almost immediately.

2001

6 February: Ariel Sharon elected prime minister of Israel.
Israeli police examine the scene of a Haifa suicide bombing

18 May: Israel launches F-16 warplanes against Palestinian targets in Gaza for the first time. 1 June: Suicide bomb attack on a disco in Tel Aviv leaves 21 people dead and more than 60 others injured. Islamic Jihad says it carried out the attack.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3677206.stm (external - login to view)

After nearly 9 months increasing violence Israel bombed Palestinians. Palestinians bombed Israelis in response. The facts prove Israel led each escalation of violence.

Galloway is hilarious. He's like a bulldog. He can't be intimidated, outshouted, bamboozled or shutup.

The Chomsky clip points out how our news doesn't report all the facts, not an attempt to reveal all facts. The 52 minute British documentary about Israel/Palestine did that:

"Injustice in the Holy Land"

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvBYbVQKjCNI0



Journalists describe how our news distorts information about Israel/Palestine:

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvhiRtJKl9wDU



Entertaining interview:
George Galloway - Hizbollah Is Not A Terrorist Organization

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvx6PgqvYxgA



52 minute British documentary about Israel/Palestine:
"Injustice in the Holy Land"

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvBYbVQKjCNI0




Quote:

Warning Graphic Images

Daily life in Palestine:

Life in the Streets

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvAOu-NT0W2eg



Day at the Beach:

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchv5WaCJn4hdjc

Last edited by earth_as_one; Dec 3rd, 2006 at 06:20 PM..
 
northstar
#29
History repeats itself and when you are dealing with Islamist Terror Organizations they follow Muhammad's teachings that deciet and lies are okay, in fact Muhammad's little story tells a tale about how he and ALLAH signed a treaty simply to lie to the people so they could get the advantage and ambush them, murdering and enslaving the people of a peaceful community. With this Scriptural Approval of Deception, it is a small wonder that History keeps repeating itself and ceasefires are routinely broken by the Terrorist Organizations that have taken over these boardering countries of Israel.
Now today ---within a week of a truce this has happened-

Quote:

4:14 p.m. dec. 3, 2006
Rocket fired at Israel from Gaza despite truce


JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A rocket fired from the Gaza Strip slammed into southern Israel on Sunday in the latest violation of a truce called a week ago, an Israeli military spokeswoman said.
There were no injuries caused by the rocket that struck a collective farm near the Israel-Gaza border. So far more than a dozen rockets have been fired despite the ceasefire, none causing any casualties.
Israel's security cabinet was expected to discuss the status of the ceasefire later on Sunday, media reports said.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice held talks with Israeli and Palestinian leaders last week in a bid to widen the truce but no agreement was said to have been reached.

Just before this Terrorist Missle was launched, Israel had warned that it would not just sit by and allow the bombing to continue...since the Palestine's can't seem to even keep their word about a truce so that peace talks can begin, there is simply no restrait...

Quote:

by Adel Zaanoun Sun Dec 3, 3:44 PM ET


GAZA CITY (AFP) - A fragile ceasefire between Israel (external - login to view) and Palestinians teetered as militants and Israel accused each other of violating the week-old agreement and each threatened to resume attacks.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned Palestinian militants that Israeli restraint would not continue indefinitely after another rocket landed in southern Israel in the fifth Palestinian violation of the ceasefire accord.
"The prime minister expressed his concern about the continuing violations of the ceasefire and warned that Israel could not restrain itself much longer if the rocket fire continues," said a statement from Olmert's office.
The statement came ahead of a meeting by Israel's influential security cabinet, which agreed to continue its policy of restraint, despite the latest rocket attack which did not cause any casualties or damage.
Under the terms of the Gaza truce, Israeli troops withdrew from the Palestinian territory and militants were supposed to stop firing rockets into the Jewish state.

This is a historical problem, The Hezzbollah and Hama's terrorist organizations just cannot stop it, even for a moment, they have no self control.

They are clearly not interested in peace, and certainly can not be trusted to keep a promise for even a short period of time.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#30
Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion said that Israel wanted all of Palestine. With the help of the U.S., they'll get it all.
 

Similar Threads

9
This Is Propaganda: The Middle East "Peace Process"
by dumpthemonarchy | Jan 13th, 2010
33
Middle-East Mission to Peace Talks
by northstar | Dec 27th, 2006
no new posts