North Korea nuke thread

The genie is out of the bottle. Discuss the situation here.

I dont know where Kims head is at. I dont see any Milliraty action on him.......and I dont think he cares about sanctions....

He knows no one is going to do anything, we are all to busy with the Middle east.

Iam surprised the Media is ever covering it, Give it 3 days and we wont hear anything about it.

He's crazy, I wish he'd fall into a reactor.

I think we should strip him down to his tiger print thong, give him a bunch of paper cuts, and spray him with a vinagar hose.

So, North Korea is now in the nuclear club. So what. Are they going to bomb anyone? I very much doubt it. North Korea has had the technology for years. That they have now exploded a nuclear device doesn't change a hell of a lot except that Japan will now feel compelled to accept American nuclear weapons along with south Korea.. Iran will more than likely move their nuclear program ahead since Korea has seemingly gotten away with a test explosion. I can't help but feel North Korea had help fron China. I don't think North Korea is going to rush out and bomb anyone, but they have taken us one step closer to the brink.

I would like to know the physical demensions and weight of the bomb North Korea has just exploded. If it is of a size and weight that can be carried by the current North Korean rockets, this is a very significant step towards that brink.

I read it is supose to be 550 Tones.

If it was that heavy, it couldn't be delivered by any conventional means and would br less of a danger to the rest of the world.

You don't stop a fight by handing out knives.

550 tonnes, is that the explosive power equivalent to TNT or is it the actual weight of the bomb?

Yes Kim is a bit nutty, and yes he did make a bomb, so what? Bush has a bomb and the crowd in Washington in charge of government is a whole lot nutty.
Korea has every right to do what they want inside their own borders. That is what it means to be an independant state. Its when you attack your neighbours, is when you create problems.
Putting sactions on countries is what isolates them and they become more of a problem than what you started out with. Through negociation and interaction with people, you keep nations in the loop with whats happening in the world.
For years China was out of the loop until of all people Nixon realized it was better to have discussion with China, rather than conflict, that is what eased tensions.
The current American regime, believes you can just bully people to put them in line. Look at the mess they've created everywhere.

The thing is, if they have the capacity to make a 550 tonne bomb, then they can also make smaller ones that CAN be carried by rocket, or even one of its current planes.

I doubt they had help from China though. And, they have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - unlike Israel.

Personally, I dont think its a big problem. I agree with the comment about handing out knives to avoid a fight, if we just asked to be kept upto date with their progress, then it shows that we are not being confrontational. We all know how many bombs the US, UK et al have, ask them, now that they are a nuclear power, to stay in line with internation policy and be open about what they have. It also makes them feel more accepted and less likely to do something stupid, whilst at the same time gives us good information about the strength of their arsenal.

Every free state has the right to this technology. Its not restricted to the major countries of the world.

I am more woried about the very old nuclear reactor in Israel at Dimona, I think it is more of a threat. Its been "online" since the 1960's, its way past it date for shutdown or major refurbishment. I believe that there have been about 15 UN sanctions placed on Israel about shutting this reactor down, and to the best of my knowledge, its still going. And nobody at the UN will be able to do anything becuase America may as well be sha**ing Israel. In the eyes of the US government, Israel can do no wrong.

If that reactor goes pop, we have a problem.

Not from Canada.

What if it decided to make all of its people wear only green clothes and execute any child who didn't want to work down the mines for less than a thruppence a day?

Would that be okay because it's happening inside their own borders?

OK, damngrumpy, you've slipped over the edge with this one.

Like Bush et al or not, comparing him to the lunatic currently starving and murdering his people in North Korea is simply disingenuous. (really, really stupid)

Nobody isolated North Korea, they choose that route themselves.

Nixon going to China was a serious strategic mistake. China SHOULD have remained isolated, she should have been continually contained militarily, and isolated economically. Instead, the west kisses their ass, selling them, or allowing them to steal, the technologies that will make them a super-power to challenge the west within 50 years. (Was it Lenin who said "They (the west) will sell us the rope we'll hang them with"?)

Remember, the regime ruling China is the WORST regime in all mankind's bloody history. As many as 70 MILLION Chinese have died under it's rule since 1949.

What if they decided that was just fine? Why is it that people outside of it's borders feel they know what's just fine for them?

North Korea joins US, Britain, France, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Israel as a nuclear-armed country



United States, Britain, South Korea, Japan and China condemn North Korea

Tony Blair - North Korea shows disregard for international community.




Disregard ... Kim Jong-il





By ONLINE REPORTER
OCTOBER 09, 2006

GEORGE W Bush has attacked North Korea's decision to test a nuclear bomb - and added that leaders around the world agree with him.


The US President said heads of state in China, South Korea and Russia agreed the test was "unacceptable".

He said the test "constitutes a threat to international peace and security".

"The United States condemns this provocative act," he said.

He added it required an immediate response from the UN Security Council.

Tony Blair also said the test, reportedly held at 2.36am British time, showed the country's "disregard" for the concerns of the international community.

He said: "I condemn this completely irresponsible act by the government of the DPRK (Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea).

"The international community has repeatedly urged them to refrain from both missile testing and nuclear testing.

"This further act of defiance shows North Korea's disregard for the concerns of its neighbours and the wider international community."

Mr Blair added that the test "contravened" North Korea's commitments under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and UN Security Council Resolution 1695.

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) said the international community would react "robustly" to the test, claimed by North Korea to have been held at an underground site in the north-east of the country.

An FCO spokesman said: "This nuclear test is viewed by the UK, and will be viewed by the rest of the international community, as a highly provocative act to which we will respond robustly.

"It will raise tensions in an already tense region and have repercussions internationally."

North Korea, led by Kim Jong-il, has refused for a year to attend international talks aimed at persuading it to disarm.
The country pulled out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 2003 after US officials accused it of a secret nuclear programme.

Speculation over a possible nuclear weapons test arose earlier this year after reports from the US and Japan of suspicious activity at a suspected underground site.

The official Korean Central News Agency said today: "The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to our military and people.

"The nuclear test will contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the Korean peninsula and surrounding region."

North Korea is believed to have enough radioactive material for about six bombs, using plutonium from its main nuclear reactor located north of the capital, Pyongyang.

The country also has an active missile programme, but it is not believed to have an atomic bomb design small and light enough to be mounted on a long-range rocket.

If today's test is confirmed, North Korea would become the ninth country in the world known to have nuclear weapons.

The other countries are the US, Russia, France, China, Britain, India, Pakistan and Israel.

Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said: "Like everyone else we are horrified.

"We are having to check, of course, but if we take this announcement at face value, it does look a very deliberate and flagrant provocation."

Any response to the move would be for the international community to discuss, but she said it would be taken "very seriously".

"I think we are particularly concerned about the impact in the neighbourhood and in the region," Mrs Beckett said.
She said it was difficult to tell how to handle an issue like this without making matters worse.

"I think the international community will have to take very, very careful stock," she said.

"This is very difficult for the neighbourhood, it's very difficult for the region, and what we don’t want is to see something happen that will make things even worse and more dangerous than they already are."

Mrs Beckett denied that North Korea's actions were to do with military action against Saddam Hussein or that Britain's authority had been weakened by its involvement in Iraq.
"I don’t think that is the case," she said.

"After all, it’s quite a considerable time now since that happened and there are much more current United Nations statements, resolutions and so on."

Mrs Beckett added: "It's important to try not to make the situation worse, if that is possible.

"Perhaps North Korea has now made that obsolete, that is something that the international community as a whole will have to discuss."


thesun.co.uk

Dont think that you can compare having Nuclear technology with making people wear green clothes.

They are not testing the bombs on the people, so I cant see the problem?

Human rights becomes a whole new conversation. And its a real tin of worms that I have no intention of opening.

What people do inside their own borders is their business. If they are subjected to the actions of a tyrant its the peoples responsibility to remove their own dictator, that is not our call. We should be minding the store at home to ensure we don't end up with the same fate. I don't think it is our business to remove any government from power except our own. Only when nations attack their neighbours should we go in. Come to think of it the only bully nation with an over agressive behavoir problem, is George Bush. He wants to impose his will on everyone these days. Maybe the world should put sanctions on America, for their international criminal behavior.

I questioned earlier what the weight of the North Korean device was. The first American nuclear bomb weighed around ten thousand pounds. I don't think North Korea has a bomber that would carry a bomb that was that heavy.

550 tons seems unreasonable as the weight of the bomb but might be the equivelent explosive power of the bomb, which would make it smaller than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs, but still a nasty weapon.

Well let's all hide our collective heads in the sand in superior behavior mode eh?

The U.N. announces it is a "problem" and the US should handle it. The US gets damned for a statement - the same one Australia and the U.K. and a number of other nations have made...

And everyone expects the U.S. to front yet another aggressive mission - handling Korea.

Just keep those heads in the sand - it won't hurt a bit from behind....and think of your purity...offering
phrases of sanctimonious peace. The world will love you all.

Why does sitting at a table and having a conversation need to be an aggressive campaign? That's why he has the damn thing in the first place, to defend against aggressive campaigns. Leave Bush at home on the ranch. Let him mow the grass or feed the pigs. Please don't let him near foreign policy.

And why do you say that?

Agreed Kreskin - that is not what I was referring to....

IF it was a matter of sitting around a table in discussion that would be fine but I heard from three networks this morning when I woke up that the U.S. will be expected to offer military threat if "talks
default" - this from China, Australia, Japan and the U.K. Because the U.S. has been in the DMZ for years
does not make them the "keeper of the Korean flame does it?" Is it not enough we have been feeding the people
in poverty kept there by Kim - so he could pour his assets into nuclear development?


If this turns into yet another mission of agression why does everyone expect that the U.S. and its people are going to fund yet another area of battle? I am against another solo USA trip to the coffin for the world communities wishing peace.

--

A Toast to Madeline Albright and the Clinton Administration for this day couldn't have been possible without them and their failed North Korean policy, Cheers!

Grump, I agree with you on this issue. The yanks think they are the guardians of the world (when it suits them)

If North Korea has nucleur weapons, so be it. If Bushinski didn't go around antagonizing everyone, he would have nothing to worry about.

Where can I get a sweet doo like that?

550 tons is the equivalent amount of TNT which would produce the same size of explosion, not the size of the device. Most likely the technology came from Pakistan not China. Since Iran was part of the same network, very likely they also have the same weapon design but lack the fissionable material which comes from reprocessing uranium which has been converted to plutonium in a nuclear reactor (fastest cheapest) or from refining weapon grade uranium directly from uranium ore (slowest most expensive).

By comparison, the bomb which blew up Hiroshima was made from uranium and was a gun type device. The first bomb tested and the one dropped on Nagasaki were made from plutonium reprocessed from nuclear reactor fuel rods and was an implosion type device. All three devices yielded blasts equivalent to about 20 thousand tons of TNT (20 kiloton devices). They did not weigh that much.

By the way the Russians have pegged the explosion as equivalent to between 5 and 15 kilotons of TNT. Since the North Koreans called the Chinese 30 minutes before to warn them of the explosion its likely North Korean exploded a nuke. Then again its also possible North Korea exploded 10,000 tons of TNT to fool the world into thinking it has nukes.

Hey this happened on Bush's watch, not Clinton's. If you are going to go back in history and blame a former President, Truman is more culpable than Clinton.

Likely North Korea and Iran noticed what the US does to countries that don't have nukes it doesn't like. If anything the US threatening a country with liberation by annihilation serves to motivate that country's leaders to develop nukes as a detererrent. At least that is why North Korea claims it went ahead with the test.

If Iraq had nukes and the means to drop them on major American cities, I bet the American public would have asked more questions before allowing their leaders to start a war with Iraq based on lies and deceptions.

As it is now, it wouldn't be that hard for North Korea to smuggle a nuclear weapon into the US in a container on a cargo ship. If they used Fedex it would be there the next day.

So, North Korea is now in the nuclear club. So what. Are they going to bomb anyone? I very much doubt it.
------------------------------------------#juan-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is not what the threat is.

The real threat is that North Korea has the chance in these modern times to sell
to well-financed individuals, or to non-nation-state groups.

The real threat was that North Korea is using this knowledge as an export product, recently
involved with Pakistan's nuclear godfather and with Libya (which got discovered) and Iran.

That's the threat.

And the additional threat is further nuclear proliferation, something where liberals used
to agree with conservatives. In fact liberals used to lead the vanguard on the matter.

Why is nuclear proliferation bad ?

This question never had to be asked in the old days.

But today you gotta go through the mechanics of it: one matter being that the more nations
and more particularly if individuals have the more chance for Murphy's Law to kick in sooner.

Let everyone have it.

Don't draw the line.

Oh no! Not a couple bombs! and you say they have the capacity for 1-2 new bombs a year? Why in a mere 6,000 years they would equal current US nuclear capacity, also known as..giving them the entire span of human history over again.

Its actually alot weaker now that its in the nuclear club.

A non-nuclear nation can get away with alot of crap. Say provacative things, zoom into others airspace..and not face much more than reprimands. When your a nuclear power you look at another nuclear power wrong, and the war is on, and thats a war N Korea is barely able to even throw one punch in.