A Subtle Kind Of Fascism

CHUCKMAN

New Member
Jan 20, 2006
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October 7, 2006
A SUBTLE KIND OF FASCISM
John Chuckman

The word fascism is used a lot, often pejoratively. The image that immediately comes to mind is Mussolini in a steel helmet, hands on hips, head tipped back, jaw thrust out. It is an image that influenced other fascists. Young Hitler was a great admirer.
It is always helpful for any discussion to define the subject carefully, a seemingly obvious principle often ignored. What exactly is fascism? Can fascism coexist to any extent with democratic institutions?
Fascism certainly is not the same thing as communism, although both these systems are represented by strongmen or tyrants and the state apparatus needed to support them. Those who like the nomenclature of the French Revolution might say that the two political extremes, right and left, almost meet somewhere in a bend of political space.
Private enterprise, of course, has been regarded as incompatible with communism, although contemporary China with its New Economic Zone begins to confuse the issue. Things have always been quite different with fascism. Fascist governments are favorable to the interests of enterprise, at least the interests of large-scale enterprises. Great private combines existed and were encouraged under Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini. Fascism represents, if you will, a kind of large-scale, public-private partnership.
Fascism, much like the mental image of Mussolini, tends to be about power, generally a raw display of political and military power. These two things are welded together in a fascist state. Flags, banners, strutting, and marching feature prominently, with political occasions sometimes difficult to distinguish from military ones.
Fascism's strutting-peacock displays serve several purposes. One, with their rise to power, fascist parties brag about getting things done (the reality of entrenched fascism proves another matter altogether), as opposed to the mundane, boring inefficiency of ordinary deliberations. This kind of promise appeals to the frustrations of many people who yearn for decisive change. Their yearnings may concern anything from building public projects to imposing moral rules..
There likely is a built-in component in human beings which finds authority attractive, at least over certain limits. Society mimics the show of power in many institutions from popes to presidents.
The display of power also intimidates enemies. Political opponents are not a common feature of fascist states, which always feature secret police, secret prisons, and heavy domestic spying, although they are sometimes allowed to exist in a neutered form for show or internal political purposes.
Aggression is closely associated with fascism. Partly the aggression is simply the result of having large standing armies and all the state and corporate apparatus associated with them. Large standing armies simply tend to get used - historians have offered this as one of the important explanations for the First World War - and the impulse to use them is undoubtedly increased by the psychology of fascism.
The psychology of fascist states tends to include penis-fixation - big guns, big flags, and big monuments. Aggression is a direct outgrowth of all the strutting, bragging, and marching.
Aggression also grows out of the fascist tendency to regard the nation as somehow specially blessed or endowed or entitled. There follows an assumed inherit right or even obligation to rule over others or at least to direct their destinies.
When you consider these characteristics, every one of them is an intrinsic part of contemporary American society. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that America is a kind of fascist state, certainly a softer-appearing one than some in the past, but then America excels at marketing, perhaps its one original intellectual gift to the world.
America does cling to ideals of human rights, something which it never fails to remind the world at international gatherings, but the truth is international gatherings are only regarded as useful for just such announcements. Despite clinging to human-rights ideals, at the very same time, America refuses to deal with others on the basis of these rights, and it often fails even to enforce the rights of selected categories of its own citizens.
This ambiguity about human rights is not so odd if you consider the many American Christians who enshrine Jesus' great commandment and the Ten Commandments and yet stand ready at a moment's notice to kill others in meaningless wars.
Genuine respect for human rights is surely more a matter of prevailing day-to-day attitudes in a society than words written on old pieces of paper.
But America is a democracy, isn't it? It certainly has many of the forms of a democracy, but when you closely examine the details, as I've written previously, American democracy resembles a badly worn wood veneer. The ugly structural stuff underneath sticks out the way elbows do in a threadbare coat.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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California
Took you long enough Chuck to make your point of linking the U.S. and Fascism....and as one of the final sentences reads in your essay ... The ugly structural stuff underneath sticks out the way elbows do in a threadbare coat.

You have made a basic attempt but the structural stuff sticks out.... Piling 30 million plus people from all over the world into one pail is lazy research. Historically you are off - but revisionists are a dime a dozen. The K-Marts of the writing world.
http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm
 
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Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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Henceforth I'm reading the last paragraph of the I hate Bush Fanatics' threads last, It's getting loathsome and tiresome. Blah blah blah, blah, Bush is evil blah blah blah Suicide Bombers are to be hailed as heros for fighting evil Bush, blah blah blah blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Achoo.
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
I would suggest more of the idea of Nazism, blaming everything on a community like in Germany where they blamed prosperity on Jews, just blame terrorism on Muslims and then decide on a solution.

Blame Homosexuals as a disease, which is the case in America they don't want them to have any rights. Have the power to do these actions.

The world repeats, I wouldn't be surprised if America would be the next Hitler Germany.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
38
not in Kansas anymore
Homosexuals have rights in the states,they just are unable to marry.They are such a tolerant,understanding community until they don't get thier way,then watch out,they reveal themselves to be exactly what they hate. The only reason SSM was passed in Canada was because the libs sided with them to foster the impression that conservatives were intolerant. Maybe the states should treat the gay community as well as the muslims do.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Wally

Same Sex Couples are allowed to link into legal partnerships for their current necessaries such as medical and financial comingling and estate matters. The only difference is being called partnerships instead of "marriage" - they are not allowed to file income tax reports as "married couples".

This is actually a benefit to them if they would look past their anger - married couples do not get much of a deal in the income tax department. Some people stay single for the "single benefits"...

Toro would know more about that perhaps....I am not a tax person or financial person.... so this is a buncha garbage :confused:
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
Yeah right. Please. Just little brown people wanting power. The good old white people can't have that.

Since pro britishness is going on in Britain and similar **** going on in America, its not going to be an Middle eastern country.
Really that sounds liek racism to me....do you always see things in black in white..?

Ignorance is bliss.


Let me tell you...maybe you could even research it.

Iran is playing with fire, they want to have the ability to have nukes.... iran is a Sheite Nation, their are lot of other Sunni nations around that area, Sheits are not so fond of Sunnis. Sunnis are usally more Pro West. If Iran got a Nuke, that would be a threat to all Sunni Nations, because Iran, treats their Sunni populaiton poorly, and dislikes most Middle Eastern Sunni Nations....Not only is that bad enough, that would start an Arms race, then their are the Jews, Isreal has Nukes, if Iran got a nuke, who is to say the Isrealis wouldnt fire one at them, and try to get rid of it?

Iran wants to control the Middle east completely, its been known for awhile, Sheits in general want to get rid of west friendly sunni nations, hence the Sheit riseing in Lebedon and other countries. They want complete control. They also want to get rid of people who dont claim their faith, .IE christans Jews Hindus, and sunnis, and other septs of Islam they dont agree with.

For the west its not about race....we rely on OIL......if an arms race happend and thigns got bad, we would be oilless, along with the rest of the world. Not only that, if the middle east flung itself into completel cahos we would have to do something about it to fix it, the UN would, evryone would...we want to aviod the big blow out. Its not about race, get your head out of your ass.
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
Iran is playing with fire, they want to have the ability to have nukes.... iran is a Sheite Nation, their are lot of other Sunni nations around that area, Sheits are not so fond of Sunnis. Sunnis are usally more Pro West. If Iran got a Nuke, that would be a threat to all Sunni Nations, because Iran, treats their Sunni populaiton poorly, and dislikes most Middle Eastern Sunni Nations....Not only is that bad enough, that would start an Arms race, then their are the Jews, Isreal has Nukes, if Iran got a nuke, who is to say the Isrealis wouldnt fire one at them, and try to get rid of it?

Iran wants to control the Middle east completely, its been known for awhile, Sheits in general want to get rid of west friendly sunni nations, hence the Sheit riseing in Lebedon and other countries. They want complete control. They also want to get rid of people who dont claim their faith, .IE christans Jews Hindus, and sunnis, and other septs of Islam they dont agree with.

For the west its not about race....we rely on OIL......if an arms race happend and thigns got bad, we would be oilless, along with the rest of the world. Not only that, if the middle east flung itself into completel cahos we would have to do something about it to fix it, the UN would, evryone would...we want to aviod the big blow out. Its not about race, get your head out of your ass.

Has everything to do with race. The other countries xsurrounding Iran don't have plans to attack it just because it has a majority ****e population.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
Has everything to do with race. The other countries xsurrounding Iran don't have plans to attack it just because it has a majority ****e population.
?


For one it doesnt, its sad you think like that. They dont have any plans, but if Iran arms itself with a Nuke, things will change quickly. Iraq, has Attacked Iran in the past, because of its sheit Governemnt. Iam sure you would already of known that though.

And thats what Iraq was Pro West, and Iran, was like now not Pro west.... go figure...


I find you realry know what your talking about may I ask how old you are?
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
18 going on 19.
OK well live alittle bit longer, get out on your own, become part of socity, then youll be able to understand socity alot better, Still lIve at home?

Not only that once you become part of socity and see how things are, you will be able to get your own opinion, not read others opinions, then say hey thats my opinion, I use to be like you, influanced by the music I listend too mostly, but once I got out on my own and started to fend for myself, I starte to get an Idea of the governmetn I would want, how I would like things to work to benifit me and, how things would work alot smoothly for Canadians and so on, then once you get past that you really have to start getting a keen interest in National Politics, and then see what each party ahs to offer and how they act, and folow them for a bit, then you will take what you feel and have learned and you will see alot of differant things and understand how thigns work, not that you dont right now, but you dont have the full picture, or first hand experiance of life. No offence.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
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EastSideScotian

No the instruction to just accept the wisdom and clarity of my perspective as that acruing through experience...isn't any kind of message to give anyone never mind the impressionable youth!

And by that statement (aside to Researcher87) I'm not implying that you're product of the last idea you confronted...either.

We have become great "basement savers", the pejorative term I heard people use in the small town I grew up in when referring to the volunteer fire department of that community. It meant that if your house caught fire the local firedepartment was so inept or ill equipped that the house would burn leaving only the basement...

We wail and moan about poverty and drug abuse, a menu of social ills that's lengthy and cyclic and fail to understand that you can't change what's already happened by responding to disaster after its come and gone. If the volunteer fire department were better trained...if the volunteeer fire department were better equipped...if strategies are put into place before catastrophy calls, then you have an opportunity to change outcomes but you never change anything by picking up the pieces.

Researcher87, immerse yourself in the dialogue of some of the dinosaurs contributing here and verify those words and concepts for yourself through independent analysis and make your own decision about what you should or shouldn't do think or feel...

Don't accept anybodies perspective or narative about anything because your perspective and your knowledge are uniquely your own and that's exactly as it should be. As soon as you surrender the right duty and obligation to test what people are saying and assess what people are doing, you cease to think for yourself and instead voluntarily don the uniform of the complacent, the ignorant or the apathetic never mind opinions and judgments that are simply outright wrong!

But learn everything you can as soon as you can and if you feel there's something you can do that should be done, do it and don't wait for some old dude to tell you you don't understand XYZ...

Use that mind and that awareness to intercede in situations before the fire begins, before the body is hauled from the water, when the effort will make a difference.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
38
not in Kansas anymore
Res87,In the future when you are asked your age just state your age.18 going on 19 sounds like something an adolscent would say. We all know that 19 is the next birthday . At least you didn't say 18 and a half and hold up your fingers.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
NO I put up my fingers and of course fell off my chair when I needed to use my feet...
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
18
Canada
Res87,In the future when you are asked your age just state your age.18 going on 19 sounds like something an adolscent would say. We all know that 19 is the next birthday . At least you didn't say 18 and a half and hold up your fingers.



Actually it's generous of him to give up that information. He honestly doesn't owe anybody any such personal information. Also the irony of EastSideScotian lecturing him about coming of age is that I remember EastSideScotian saying he was close to that age himself.

Age has nothing to do with contribution. It's all about the substance of content. Age just tends to give a person a longer history of experience to reflect upon. It doesn't mean a person is better informed however. That has to do with how well read and observant/understanding one is to the information around. A lot of what is going on now is very new history.

Who would have imagined the USA not only using torture, but trying very hard to justify it to the world. What does one call that? Um, a subtle kind of fascism?

Can anybody tell me of any well respected country that uses torture these days?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Actually it's generous of him to give up that information. He honestly doesn't owe anybody any such personal information. Also the irony of EastSideScotian lecturing him about coming of age is that I remember EastSideScotian saying he was close to that age himself.

Age has nothing to do with contribution. It's all about the substance of content. Age just tends to give a person a longer history of experience to reflect upon. It doesn't mean a person is better informed however. That has to do with how well read and observant/understanding one is to the information around. A lot of what is going on now is very new history.

Who would have imagined the USA not only using torture, but trying very hard to justify it to the world. What does one call that? Um, a subtle kind of fascism?

Can anybody tell me of any well respected country that uses torture these days?

I have two words to say to anyone who thinks that youth means one is unintelligent, uninformed, or inherently foolish................Five Paradox