The U.S. has just lost two more wars

CHUCKMAN

New Member
Jan 20, 2006
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September 21, 2006

AMERICA HAS JUST LOST TWO MORE WARS

John Chuckman

For a country which takes excessive pride in flags, uniforms, and marching bands and spends more than the rest of the planet combined on its military, the record of America's forces since World War II is depressing. In dozens of quickie invasions against weak opponents, Americans indeed have prevailed, but when faced with tough and determined enemies, they have remarkably often been defeated or stalemated.

The failure of America's military could be explained by the notion that failure is only what happens when you seek the wrong success. A poorly-governed people, as Americans certainly are, keeps being sent to wars in which they have no vital interest or commitment. Whatever the reason, the record is unmistakable.

It includes Korea after MacArthur's insane march to the Chinese border.

It includes Vietnam, where, despite the slaughter of millions, the US left in shame, abandoning desperate associates clinging to helicopter undercarriages.

It includes America's smaller-scale but long and vicious war on Cuba. The US was embarrassed by failure time and again, shamefully resorted to the terror tactics it now claims to despise, and wasted immense resources supporting thousands of hangers-on. Fidel Castro outlived two generations of American presidents and over six hundred assassination plots.

The record of failures includes the American military's confusing its humanitarian-assistance role in Somalia with Gary Cooper facing down the bad guys in High Noon, an error which gave it an ugly surprise and saw America turn and go home.

The record includes Reagan's poorly-considered landing of Marines in Lebanon. A base blown up by resisting guerrilla forces, the Marines left with a battleship hurling sixteen-inch shells into the hills, killing who knows how many innocent civilians and having achieved nothing.

Of course, in battles or war generally, victory is not always easy to determine. There were many battles in history where victory was claimed or loss assumed in error.

Higher casualties don't always mean losing a battle or even a war. The sacrifice of great numbers sometimes improves a strategic or tactical position, as General Grant in America's Civil War well understood. Vietnam's General Giap understood this also, for despite a horrific slaughter of his people, America suffered defeat.

It was an early sign of the coming defeat when body counts began to dominate American news. It is easy to kill large numbers of people, especially when you have complete air superiority and high-tech weapons, but constant killing may mean little progress against a serious opponent. Often, as in the Blitz, bombing people is completely counter-productive.

In recent weeks, body counts re-appeared in Afghanistan, much the same way opium poppies re-appeared after America's claim to victory over the Taleban (who had suppressed opium). The bodies are supposed to be Taleban, but who can tell whether a dead villager is Taleban?

Even when the body is Taleban, how do we regard that as a victory? The Taleban is a loosely-knit organization, a kind of political party and anti-invader guerilla force, bound to conservative traditions in a hardscrabble land of tough mountain people. Death does not intimidate where people typically live to forty-seven.

Except in the bizarre mind of George Bush, the Taleban is not a terrorist organization,. So when one of them is killed, does it really represent a victory? Or is it viewed by many in Afghanistan as murder by unwelcome foreigners? Clearly, this is the view of many because the Taleban is becoming stronger, surprisingly so according to expert observers.

The recent refusal of NATO countries to commit more troops and resources to Afghanistan was telling. Pressure from the US must have been immense, but the response was virtual silence. Of course, most NATO countries are simply looking after their own best interests. Many of them understand terrorism far better than does the US, having lived with it for decades, and none of them are exhibiting death-wishes or dementia.

They know Al Qaeda has been scattered to the four winds - anything but an achievement from a security point of view - and they see little point in trying to occupy Afghanistan for years. They understand the impossibility of significantly changing so ancient and poor a land. They are not taken in by American Potemkin village projects for bettering life there, after having bombed the hell out of the place. NATO countries in general do not accept Bush's tale about everyone's security depending upon success in Afghanistan for the very good reason that it is false.

On the other hand, those supporting the US in Afghanistan are following Bush's interests, whatever those are, for I'm not sure Bush ever has had a clear grasp of what he is doing himself.

The other lost war is, of course, Iraq. American efforts there have done little but kill civilians and destroy the economy and now threaten to destroy the country itself. Even in Washington, the reality of civil war is dawning. America's real goals in the war are not going to be achieved, the major one of which was to establish a regime friendly to American policy, especially as that policy pertains to Israel. Instead, years of bloody chaos lie ahead. The outcome, who knows? Three separate warring rump states, each willing to do almost anything to gain an advantage, including taking assistance from those most hostile to American policy?

But the American loss in Iraq is far greater than this. The illegal and unjustified invasion has muddied America's reputation, aroused suspicions of its intentions, and put new geopolitical forces into play only dimly perceived at this time.

When are we going to learn how stupidly unproductive war is? And when is the US going to learn how bad it is at war despite its monstrous expenditures preparing for it?

(Revision: title was in caps, not cool)
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
215
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Re: AMERICA HAS JUST LOST TWO MORE WARS

The main reason is - too much of political correctness, and too concerned what the rest of the world is going to say. All there is to do is to press the "button".
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
215
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Re: RE: AMERICA HAS JUST LOST

hermanntrude said:
logic 7 will love this one
[URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2615/1906jv1.jpg[/URL][/img]

Never forget the evil we are dealing with. Never forget the depravity in the heart of every true Muslim
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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Newfoundland!
Re: RE: AMERICA HAS JUST LOST

Chukcha said:
[Never forget the evil we are dealing with. Never forget the depravity in the heart of every true Muslim

Are you attempting to say that there is evil in the heart of all muslims? I think you might find that is a very foolish thing to say.

The image was very emotive I admit and it's terrible that such things happen, especially in the name of religion. But blanket statements of hatred will not get us anywhere.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
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Petawawa Ontario
The Guy cant even spell Taliban, and That war isnt over. Its not an American War its a U.N war.

This guy is an idiot, is he a Doctor? Professor? Politian, what are his cradentials he is just another nobody with an Opinion, that hasnt seen the light of some simple Facts. Just another LIberal yes-man who has no idea on the world and what exzactly his Nation is trying to do...The fact that he pulled the War in Afganistain and said hilarous comments...oh the body cout cstarted to raise out of no where? HAHA its a war fool, the body count didnt come out of nowhere. and its not an American war its UN sanctioned with Nato at the Helm, and Unlike Iraq their is large progress being made in large amounts of the Country because of the war to begin with.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
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Great Satan
John Chuckman...





 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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The Americans don't have an impressive war record. The British Army is the best in the world and it has been for a long time.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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RE: The U.S. has just los

Good Job, thomaska, you have nothing to say about the article because it is the truth

"Taliban" isn't the "corect" way to spell the name, you'd need to write it in Arabic and only then would you have the "correct" spelling, just FYI, much like Osama AND Usama are pretty much both "as correct" as one another, the theory onm the less-phonetically corect "osama" being so poular in the North American media is that the idea of an enemy who's names begins "USA" would not be as good a branding...

So other than insults and total BS, do you have anything to say about the actual article??

Oh and you can google John Chuckman- I doubt he's some "mouth breathing conspiracy theorist posting from his parent's basement who has never paid taxes in his life" as you are trying to pass him off to be, you might like to actually think how stupid your posts make you appear before hitting "reply" ;)
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Just to give you some idea how bad the American military is (Americans, look away now. This may be embarrassing for you).....


 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Mabudon

I think Thomaska sees enough crap around here about the military and their role in your life and my life and the lives of others - perhaps only
posting a reply such as he did was the most appropriate.

Until you have walked in his shoes....
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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Re: RE: The U.S. has just lost two more wars

Blackleaf said:
The Americans don't have an impressive war record. The British Army is the best in the world and it has been for a long time.

Compared to who, the French?
 

Proud American

Nominee Member
Sep 22, 2006
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Re: RE: The U.S. has just lost two more wars

Blackleaf said:
Just to give you some idea how bad the American military is (Americans, look away now. This may be embarrassing for you).....



LOL!! If this is the British Army..no wonder our troops have been mistaking them for the enemy.....What was your point? :p

They look like they are still driving and using equipment from the Revolution!! LOL!!!

ANd you have the nerve to critique OUR military..oh how embarrassing....for you!!!!! :p :eek: :D :lol:
 

Proud American

Nominee Member
Sep 22, 2006
69
0
6
Baltimore,MD
Re: RE: The U.S. has just lost two more wars

Blackleaf said:
The Americans don't have an impressive war record. The British Army is the best in the world and it has been for a long time.


LOL at you!!!!!! :lol: :lol: STILL....... :lol:
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
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Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
RE: The U.S. has just los

WC- I don't care what kind of shoes such a person wears, if all ethey can do is attack the messenger with childish images while wholly ignoring the point, then I don't care if they walked to the friggin moon and back, their "input" is useless..
The US and its minions can lose these two wars as long as they want to- this is not "posting crap about the troops", hell, if I use a Strativarius to hammer in some 10-penny nails and it breaks into a million pieces, it isn't because it was no good as a violin, quite the opposite, I likely should have used a hammer which would be the coreect tool for the job and would likely be able to yield the desired outcome.

To suggest that by saying the US foreign policy is a DISMAL failure is in ANY way blaming the US military itself is sophistry of the highest order and to suggest that what thomaska posted was somehow "enlightened" by where he walked or what he had on his feet at the time is the same, the post is still idiotic, pointless and of no actual value
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
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Great Satan
Mabudon wrote

you might like to actually think how stupid your posts make you appear before hitting "reply"


"Taliban" isn't the "corect" way to spell the name, you'd need to write it in Arabic and only then would you have the "correct" spelling, just FYI, much like Osama AND Usama are pretty much both "as correct" as one another, the theory onm the less-phonetically corect "osama" being so poular in the North American media is that the idea of an enemy who's names begins "USA" would not be as good a branding...

Got run-on sentence?

Might want to apply some of thar rapier wit to your own posts.

Not that it matters one way or the other, all of you "mouth breathers" wouldnt buy an arguement from my side of the fence if Allah himself put it on the end of his shoe and kicked you with it.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
RE: The U.S. has just los

Look you basically pointed and shouted "IDIOT" for something that wasn't even a mistake, and now rather than respond to what I said, you come out attacking ME....

And what "argument" did you "offer"?? you just posted some stupid conjecture and a bit of slander, none of which forms the basis of anything even approaching an "argument"
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
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38
Petawawa Ontario
Re: RE: The U.S. has just lost two more wars

Proud American said:
Blackleaf said:
The Americans don't have an impressive war record. The British Army is the best in the world and it has been for a long time.


LOL at you!!!!!! :lol: :lol: STILL....... :lol:
The British do have a better Army, What are you laughing about, they really do.

Canada has a better Army than the States too....


The British and Canadians, Have longer Basic training and more indepth courses, and much better training Facillities which they share with each other for training. Not only that when is the last time a Canadian or Birtish Soldier,warplane or tank attacked an ally?