Curious About Statistics


Caleb-Dain Matton
#1
Does anyone know how many Israeli citizens and Lebanon citizens have been killed thus far? Also, how many Palestinians versus Israelis have been killed in their history?

I would say that whichever has lost fewer citizens would have to be considered the terrorists. But I need figures to confirm this. Thanks.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Does anyone know how many Israeli citizens and Lebanon citizens have been killed thus far? Also, how many Palestinians versus Israelis have been killed in their history?

I would say that whichever has lost fewer citizens would have to be considered the terrorists. But I need figures to confirm this. Thanks.

That is silly.

The clearer picture is obtained by the following question, which I have asked ad nauseum, yet no leftie (oh, excuse me, progressive...) has ever answered. Mind you, it is a little rhetorical......

Which would you rather be?

An Arab living in Israel, or a Jew living in any of the Arab countries?

That will tell you who is worth supporting........

By the way, I think your answer runs to the advantage of the Israelis by a factor of about 10 to one.

Yet, let me make one more trip into the realm of "what if"......

What if all the weapons in the hands of Arab/Persians permanently disappeared?

Answer: there would be peace............

What if allthe weapons in the hands of the Israelis permanently disappeared?

Answer: there would be a slaughter of Jews in the ME that would make the Holocaust look like a Sunday School picnic.

The Israelis are FAR from perfect morally, but if one looks carefully, the choice of whom to back seems clear......
 
missile
Conservative
#3
"shaking my head in wonder at the silliness of the above statement" All it could acually mean is that one side has better aim than the other.Period.
 
BitWhys
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

An Arab living in Israel, or a Jew living in any of the Arab countries?

hmm. that's a tough one...

Discrimination in the Israeli Law

Quote:

Despite Israel's ratification of the ICCPR and its guarantee to protect all of its citizens against discrimination, Palestinian Arab citizens in Israel are discriminated against in a variety of forms and denied equal individual rights because of their national belonging. Though this discrimination is politically motivated, the Israeli legal system is part of this political context. As well as offering limited provisions for equality or political participation to members of the Palestinian Arab minority, the law in Israel subjects them to three types of discrimination: direct discimination against non-Jews within the law itself, indirect discrimination through "neutral" laws and criteria which apply principally to Palestinians, and institutional discrimination through a legal framework that facilitates a systematic pattern of privileges

Matrix of Control

Quote:

Because it operates under a Kafkaesque guise of "proper administration," "upholding the law," "keeping the public order" and, of course, "security," the Matrix of Control renders the Occupation virtually invisible. In "normal" times (when active Palestinian resistance can be stifled), its outward appearance is legal and bureaucratic, the most effective means of control over a long period of time. The Israeli military government over the Occupied Territories is called, for example, the "Civil Administration," even though it is headed by a colonel under the strict authority of the Ministry of Defense, and is bound by the orders of the general commanding the "Central Front."

 
Logic 7
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Does anyone know how many Israeli citizens and Lebanon citizens have been killed thus far? Also, how many Palestinians versus Israelis have been killed in their history?

I would say that whichever has lost fewer citizens would have to be considered the terrorists. But I need figures to confirm this. Thanks.


600 lebanese including 35 hezbollah militants according to hezbollah officials, 100 according to israelis officials, in total 500 to 575 civilians lebanese killed.

52 israelis killed, including 33 soldiers and 19 civilians according to israelis officials.

I don't have the exact statistics on israeli-palestinians conflict.
 
Caleb-Dain Matton
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7

Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Does anyone know how many Israeli citizens and Lebanon citizens have been killed thus far? Also, how many Palestinians versus Israelis have been killed in their history?

I would say that whichever has lost fewer citizens would have to be considered the terrorists. But I need figures to confirm this. Thanks.


600 lebanese including 35 hezbollah militants according to hezbollah officials, 100 according to israelis officials, in total 500 to 575 civilians lebanese killed.

52 israelis killed, including 33 soldiers and 19 civilians according to israelis officials.

I don't have the exact statistics on israeli-palestinians conflict.

Thanks Logic! Well, in my opinion then, Israel is the terrorist. Civilian deaths cannot be justified. Lebanon has made 19 grave mistakes and Israel has made over 500. Doesn't it seem reasonable to support those who make less mistakes?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#7
Nah, BitWhys, it is not hard at all, although you get credit for at least addressing the subject.

Arab Israelis vote, hold seats in the Knesset, are mayors in many towns. Yes, they live under suspicion, but they are wise enough to understand how well they have it. Terror attacks by Arab Israeli citizens, although not unheard of, are very, very rare.

Jews in Lebanon are hunted and murdered by Hezbollah because they are Jews.

Syria murdered any Jews that didn't escape decades ago. Likewise Saudi Arabia. I don't know about Jordan or Egypt, they are fairly moderate, but I believe any Jews there would live a very precarious existence, and has long since fled to the welcoming arms of Israel.

There is a difference on two levels......first, the level of persecution against Israeli Arab is extremely mild, although it does exist, you don't see Israeli Arabs fleeing for ANYWHERE!

The level of persecution of Jews in Arab lands makes those areas unliveable for Jews.

Secondly, if Jews flee any area on earth they are welcomed with open arms by Israel.

Arab refugees are left to rot by the Arab nations, despite Arab oil riches. Why? So they can grow in numbers and be used as a propaganda tool and a proxy army to beat Israel.

Neither side has a corner on morality...........but Israel comes out best every time.

It is not so much that Israel deserves to win, as it is the Arabs deserve to lose.
 
Toro
#8
I'd say the organization that hides weapons under hospitals and has offices on the bottom floors of apartments qualifies as terrorists.
 
Caleb-Dain Matton
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro

I'd say the organization that hides weapons under hospitals and has offices on the bottom floors of apartments qualifies as terrorists.

Thanks Toro, you gave me a great idea for a new thread! "Terrorist America" I'm going to get started right away!
 
wallyj
#10
Caleb,are you not the sly one? Ask a question,knowing full well the answer,and then use that as confirmation of your anti-Israel pathology. Sorry,the truth doesn't work that way. <SNIP: Please refrain from racial slurs>
 
Caleb-Dain Matton
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

The terrorists are...... those crazy ragheads that want to kill everyone who doesn't believe in thier god's supremacy.

Ouch Wally, did someone strike a nerve with you or something? This opens the door for me to say some racist things about Americans and Jews, but I won't. I won't stoop so right-wingishly low.

The right-wingers are losing it. They are flipping-out and spewing racist comments. They are struggling with their morals. I think it is safe to say that more and more people are recognizing Israel as the terrorists.
 
wallyj
#12
Yes,it does strike a nerve,almost as much as the apologists. Racist,I don't think so. Politically incorrect,of course.I notice that you do not comment on the first part of my post.Ignore the truth again and again. BTW, on 9\11 Canada lost 25 civilians,who are the terrorists again?
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

Yes,it does strike a nerve,almost as much as the apologists. Racist,I don't think so. Politically incorrect,of course.I notice that you do not comment on the first part of my post.Ignore the truth again and again. BTW, on 9\11 Canada lost 25 civilians,who are the terrorists again?

This is the first time that I have heard the suggestion that Hezbollah is responsible for the bombing of the World Trade Centre towers.
 
Caleb-Dain Matton
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

Yes,it does strike a nerve,almost as much as the apologists. Racist,I don't think so. Politically incorrect,of course.I notice that you do not comment on the first part of my post.Ignore the truth again and again. BTW, on 9\11 Canada lost 25 civilians,who are the terrorists again?

I don't care if we lost thousands. A human being is a human being. Do you cry when innocent Muslims get killed. Or are they not white enough for you?
 
Kreskin
#15
I think worldwide the chances of dying from terrorism is about 1 in 330,000. One is more likely to die by accidental poisioning, drinking contaminated water, or by lightening strike. The over reaction to terrorism is completely insane. Of those 600 or so innocents killed I'll bet half of them join the jihad. If someone bombed my house and killed my kids because a terrorist lived in the basement suite there could not be an excuse good enough to keep me from living the rest of my life seeking revenge. I wouldn't need to watch Anderson Cooper or some other journalist the neocons keep blaming for the world's problems to be a very dangerous person. Anyone who has kids would feel the same, no matter where they lived.
 
Toro
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

I don't care if we lost thousands. A human being is a human being. Do you cry when innocent Muslims get killed. Or are they not white enough for you?

Thats interesting cdm.

I guess you put the same weight on the death of someone half way around the world you don't know as the death of, say, a family member?

Same thing, right?

Or do you just hate black people?
 
JonB2004
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

Yes,it does strike a nerve,almost as much as the apologists. Racist,I don't think so. Politically incorrect,of course.I notice that you do not comment on the first part of my post.Ignore the truth again and again. BTW, on 9\11 Canada lost 25 civilians,who are the terrorists again?

I don't care if we lost thousands. A human being is a human being. Do you cry when innocent Muslims get killed. Or are they not white enough for you?


Whoa! Back up there. Caleb. Did you just say that you don't care that the lives of Canadians were lost on 9/11?
 
Nathaniel
#18
Kreskin, Sure we would all want revenge, but on whom?

Do you not think you would be quite angry with the militants hidding in and around your home.... LONG before any bomb goes off, I would have already done my best to remove them, or remove myself and my family.
 
Nathaniel
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Does anyone know how many Israeli citizens and Lebanon citizens have been killed thus far? Also, how many Palestinians versus Israelis have been killed in their history?

I would say that whichever has lost fewer citizens would have to be considered the terrorists. But I need figures to confirm this. Thanks.

Terrorism is not measured in lives, but in intention.
 
Caleb-Dain Matton
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004

Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

Yes,it does strike a nerve,almost as much as the apologists. Racist,I don't think so. Politically incorrect,of course.I notice that you do not comment on the first part of my post.Ignore the truth again and again. BTW, on 9\11 Canada lost 25 civilians,who are the terrorists again?

I don't care if we lost thousands. A human being is a human being. Do you cry when innocent Muslims get killed. Or are they not white enough for you?


Whoa! Back up there. Caleb. Did you just say that you don't care that the lives of Canadians were lost on 9/11?

No more than caring about Muslims lives that have been lost or the 35,ooo children who starved to death on 911 in Third World countries. Again, A HUMAN BEING IS A HUMAN BEING. What part are you having a hard tiime following?
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by [i

JonB2004[/i]]Whoa! Back up there. Caleb. Did you just say that you don't care that the lives of Canadians were lost on 9/11?

I would contend, rather, that the member had intended to suggest that lives should be valued notwithstanding their place of origin, ethnicity, and other external factors such as those.
 
Kreskin
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Kreskin, Sure we would all want revenge, but on whom?

Do you not think you would be quite angry with the militants hidding in and around your home.... LONG before any bomb goes off, I would have already done my best to remove them, or remove myself and my family.

But they didn't kill my kids and like I said no excuse would be good enough. I wouldn't sit down and assess my own faults, I will have lost my children to the violence of others and I would go to my grave to get justice for my children. I'm just telling you the way it is. If you think you can justify the actions that is your choice. It might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside but you've created more problems than you've solved.

Edit: to add, not everyone in this world has the chance to pick up and go or assess all of their decisions on a moral check list. Allowing an unscrupulous character in to rent or have my family broke living in the streets? What do you think happens in cases like that? We in North America have it easy compared to many in countries like that. People have to do what they have to do to put food on the table, and in the end that's all they want to do. Bomb them out, now you've got other things they might want to do.
 
BitWhys
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Jews in Lebanon are hunted and murdered by Hezbollah because they are Jews.

really?

got proof?

present tense would be nice.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Jews in Lebanon are hunted and murdered by Hezbollah because they are Jews.

really?

got proof?

present tense would be nice.

Good point.

A slip of the keyboard.

Allow me to correct myself.

Jews in Lebanon were being hunted and murdered by Hezbollah because they are Jews. They probably can't find any now, as there are only about 60 left.

Fifteen were murdered by Hezbollah in the mid-eighties.

http://www.danielpepper.com/blog/?p=16
 
BitWhys
#25
MID EIGHTIES!!!

does the phrase "Israeli invasion of Lebanon" ring a bell?

"slip of the keyboard". heh. I've been noticing a lot of that lately. the resulting "truthiness" has been astounding. Like I also noticed that serveral members totally stepped around the link to "Palestine, Propaganda and the Promised Land" and the link I left in this thread describing the invisible occupation.
 
elevennevele
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Does anyone know how many Israeli citizens and Lebanon citizens have been killed thus far? Also, how many Palestinians versus Israelis have been killed in their history?

I would say that whichever has lost fewer citizens would have to be considered the terrorists. But I need figures to confirm this. Thanks.



People who blindly support the Israelis camp never want you to ask this question.

I had a really good link from an impartial human rights organization on this before because I was interested in the numbers myself and for some reason I can’t seem to locate it.

Innocent people killed in the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians has been unfavourably disproportionate on the side of the Palestinians. It makes you wonder who really needs defending by the international community and it doesn't make you wonder why there is a real frustration present against the Israelis.

Note this is from an Israelis human rights group.

Quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4294502.stm


Intifada toll Sept 2000 - Sept 2005
The five years of the Palestinian intifada have cost more than 4,000 lives. Btselem, an Israeli human rights group, has been tracking casualty figures on both sides.

Most of the statistics cover the period from 29 September 2000 to 15 September 2005.

PALESTINIANS KILLED BY ISRAELIS*

3,218 killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza including 657 aged under 18, 187 killed in extrajudicial executions and 296 (including at least 29 aged under 18) killed in the course of assassination operations.

56 killed by security forces in Israel
including one aged under 18

41 killed by Israeli citizens in the West Bank and Gaza
including at least three aged under 18

*There are no figures to show the proportion of Palestinians who were combatants and those who were civilians.

ISRAELIS KILLED BY PALESTINIANS

444 civilians killed in Israel
including 80 aged under 18

223 civilians killed in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
including 37 aged under 18

221 Israeli security forces killed in West Bank and Gaza

84 Israeli security forces killed in Israel

 
elevennevele
#27
Here is a site that has charts for easy comparisons.

Quote:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the world’s major sources of instability. Americans are directly connected to this conflict, and increasingly imperiled by its devastation.

It is the goal of If Americans Knew to provide full and accurate information on this critical issue, and on our power – and duty – to bring a resolution.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

..................

If Americans Knew is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt, independent research and information-dissemination institute, with particular focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, U.S. foreign policy regarding the Middle East, and media coverage of this issue. Specifically, the organization’s objective is to provide information that is to a large degree missing from American press coverage of this critical region.

Our Story

If Americans Knew was originally founded by an American freelance journalist, Alison Weir, who traveled independently throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip in February and March of 2001. Ms. Weir found a situation largely the reverse of what was being reported by the American media. Upon further examination of this issue – she read dozens of books on the topic – she found that the U.S. press portrayal was significantly at odds with information being reported by media throughout the rest of the world.

 
Colpy
Conservative
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

MID EIGHTIES!!!

does the phrase "Israeli invasion of Lebanon" ring a bell?

"slip of the keyboard". heh. I've been noticing a lot of that lately. the resulting "truthiness" has been astounding. Like I also noticed that serveral members totally stepped around the link to "Palestine, Propaganda and the Promised Land" and the link I left in this thread describing the invisible occupation.

These are LEBANESE Jews, not Israelis.

There are only 60 left from a community that dates back thousands of years.

Hezbollah murdered them ONLY because they are Jews.

I think that makes my point very well, Thank You.
 
elevennevele
#29
Children are about as innocent as it gets...

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

121 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 763 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

“The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.”

- Catherine Cook
 
BitWhys
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

I think that makes my point very well, Thank You.

your point was flawed and misleading but if you want to gloat about settling for second best in public be my guest.
 

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