Pacifists versus peace

Freethinker

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Jan 18, 2006
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Article suggesting that todays pacifist movements are actually contributing to the state of ongoing conflict, by limiting decisive action.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...sSowell&dt=07/21/2006&page=full&comments=true

"An aggressor today knows that if his aggression fails, he will still be protected from the full retaliatory power and fury of those he attacked because there will be hand-wringers demanding a cease fire, negotiations and concessions."
 

Kreskin

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Feb 23, 2006
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Aren't you the one complaining that some posters cut and paste and don't contribute their own arguments? You expect us to search through a neocon site to find the truth about people who aren't neocon? Give us a break.
 

Freethinker

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Re: RE: Pacifists versus peace

Kreskin said:
Aren't you the one complaining that some posters cut and paste and don't contribute their own arguments? You expect us to search through a neocon site to find the truth about people who aren't neocon? Give us a break.

This is an example what should be done. A small clip of the article and a link.

I was complaining about people who paste in whole books they copied from elsewhere when a link would do. I noted a recent example where you have to page down 10+ times to get past this, 10 000+ word quote.

I have a three line quote.

14 pages vs 3 lines. Can you spot the difference?
 

Kreskin

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Feb 23, 2006
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First of all I don't see an article. I see a webpage with a bunch links to articles.
 

Kreskin

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I don't know if you've noticed or not but the peaceniks have had zero power in the US for 6 years. The neocon smear campaign is running out of people to blame for their failures.
 

Freethinker

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Sorry, I didn't test to see what CC would do to the link.

It is the canadian content header that is added before the link that messes up the page. Remove that and the page will show up properly.

The basics of the article are something I had thought of in the past. That the hand wringing of western nations emboldens militants to attack, knowing they can fall back on the pacifists to protect them from retaliation.

This is kind of like the sly game some younger siblings will engage in, of hitting older sibling, and then crying to mom when they retaliate.

I agree with the premise. Lately it is reflected in immediate calls for Lebanon cease fire. Which would solve nothing. It is short sighted thinking. Without decisive action, this scenario will only play itself out again and again. It would be better to do what is necessary to dismantle Hezbollah and in the future is a chance of peace. Leave Hezbollah intact and it is only a matter of time before this destruction repeats. It is better to pay a bigger price once than endlessy repeat this cycle.

Look at Jordan, the PLO was causing destruction, tried to assasinate the King. Jordan finally had enough and went to war to get rid of the PLO. There were thousands of casualties, but Jordan has been peaceful ever since.
 

Simpleton

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It's a simple concept: Short-term pain for long-term gain. It's the international equivalent of having a brain tumour that causes intermittent headaches. You can take aspirin and tolerate the headaches till your dying day, or you can have surgery and get rid of the tumour.

Sure, surgery is a lot more expensive in the near-term than say, aspirin; there will be some discomfort and pain, and your life will be interrupted for a while, but in the long run, you will be able to enjoy life without the headaches. Even if it means that you're going to be stuck making healthcare payments for a couple of years.

But at least the headaches will be gone... and you will no longer have to cruise down the pain reliever aisle of your local grocery store. :wink:
 

Kreskin

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Feb 23, 2006
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Simpleton said:
It's a simple concept: Short-term pain for long-term gain. It's the international equivalent of having a brain tumour that causes intermittent headaches. You can take aspirin and tolerate the headaches till your dying day, or you can have surgery and get rid of the tumour.

Sure, surgery is a lot more expensive in the near-term than say, aspirin; there will be some discomfort and pain, and your life will be interrupted for a while, but in the long run, you will be able to enjoy life without the headaches. Even if it means that you're going to be stuck making healthcare payments for a couple of years.

But at least the headaches will be gone... and you will no longer have to cruise down the pain reliever aisle of your local grocery store. :wink:

Like a prescription for Extra Strength Shrub?
 

Simpleton

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Kreskin said:
Simpleton said:
It's a simple concept: Short-term pain for long-term gain. It's the international equivalent of having a brain tumour that causes intermittent headaches. You can take aspirin and tolerate the headaches till your dying day, or you can have surgery and get rid of the tumour.

Sure, surgery is a lot more expensive in the near-term than say, aspirin; there will be some discomfort and pain, and your life will be interrupted for a while, but in the long run, you will be able to enjoy life without the headaches. Even if it means that you're going to be stuck making healthcare payments for a couple of years.

But at least the headaches will be gone... and you will no longer have to cruise down the pain reliever aisle of your local grocery store. :wink:

Like a prescription for Extra Strength Shrub?

Are you suggesting that Isreal and Lebanon/Hezbollah are engaged in a little recreational war?

This is a war to settle a legitimate dispute. They're not fighting for the "high." They're fighting for the right to coexist in a peaceful and unmolested fashion. Hezbollah has been a constant headache to the people of Israel -- a painful, destructive, and fatal series of headaches. Israel wants a cure.

With as close to surgical precision as is humanly possible, Israel is actively targetting the Hezbollah with the objective of eliminating them. The kidnappings have to end, the indiscriminate rocket launches must be halted, and the idea that Israel must cease as a nation and people, must be destroyed. Israel has nowhere else to go, but to war. This is hardly a recreational war, it is a war of survival. It is a war of necessity.

To suggest that Isreal should just lighten up and smoke some weed, is utterly preposterous. We have seen the history in that region. We have seen Israel make every attempt at appeasement, yet the attacks by Hezbollah and others persist. How can we arrogantly and ignorantly demand that Israel relinquish its God given right to defend itself, and simultaneously stand silent on the issue of dealing with the instigator -- Hezbollah. This is not a hockey game, where the instigator gets a two minute additional penalty, and the game ends after the third period. We're talking about insane warlords that don't give a damn about the lives of the Israelis, Lebonese, or any other human beings. We are talking about people that can only be dealt with by their very own tactics. And this, of course, means war.

Don't play with matches at gas stations because eventually it's going to blow. If you're watching the news, you can see that it has blown. And the arsonist is Hezbollah.
 

Kreskin

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I didn't think the comment "Like a prescription for Extra Strength Shrub?" suggested much. Man am I wrong.
 

Kreskin

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Re: RE: Pacifists versus peace

Simpleton said:
Kreskin said:
I didn't think the comment "Like a prescription for Extra Strength Shrub?" suggested much. Man am I wrong.

I'm sorry, I thought that shrub meant weed. :wink:

LOL, no Shrub as in Bush.
 

ol' dawg

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Jun 25, 2005
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Re: RE: Pacifists versus peace

Kreskin said:
Simpleton said:
Kreskin said:
I didn't think the comment "Like a prescription for Extra Strength Shrub?" suggested much. Man am I wrong.

I'm sorry, I thought that shrub meant weed. :wink:

LOL, no Shrub as in Bush.

Ooooops ... shows where my mind is ... I thought shrub was ... well ... weed.


Maybe if the world leaders sat down to a couple months of serious 'shrub' inhalation the problems would all be solved ... then again, the food shortage may still be there. :roll:
 

Simpleton

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Re: RE: Pacifists versus peace

ol' dawg said:
Kreskin said:
Simpleton said:
Kreskin said:
I didn't think the comment "Like a prescription for Extra Strength Shrub?" suggested much. Man am I wrong.

I'm sorry, I thought that shrub meant weed. :wink:

LOL, no Shrub as in Bush.

Ooooops ... shows where my mind is ... I thought shrub was ... well ... weed.


Maybe if the world leaders sat down to a couple months of serious 'shrub' inhalation the problems would all be solved ... then again, the food shortage may still be there. :roll:

The food shortage would still be there? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't weed smokers crave snacks? I would suggest that the food shortage would not only persist, but that it would be hastened.

At least that's what I've heard. I don't actually know if weed smokers get the munchies, as everytime that I've smoked weed, I was drunk and bloated. :lol:

Come to think of it, everytime that I've had sex, I was drunk and bloated. Hmmm... Beer is evil!!! :twisted: :twisted:
 

ol' dawg

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Re: RE: Pacifists versus peace

Simpleton said:
...
The food shortage would still be there? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't weed smokers crave snacks? I would suggest that the food shortage would not only persist, but that it would be hastened.

At least that's what I've heard. I don't actually know if weed smokers get the munchies, as everytime that I've smoked weed, I was drunk and bloated. :lol:

Come to think of it, everytime that I've had sex, I was drunk and bloated. Hmmm... Beer is evil!!! :twisted: :twisted:

Naw, couldn't be the beer, probably that pizza that got you bloated.

And if you got laid after a couple beers, that's a good thing. :D
 

iARTthere4iam

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Jul 23, 2006
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I don't think that there is any argument here that booze and weed and sex are god's special gifts to us, but the point here is that if Israel is forced to accept some unnatural ceasefire that it will end up as these conflicts always have. I don't think that there has ever been and Arab/ Israeli war (there have been lots) that didn't bring the international community in screaming for an end to hostilities, what good has that done? Lets give israel a chance to crush these terrorists. Both Israel and Lebanon will benefit from this eventually. Lebanon must take responsibility for itself. Peace will not be the result of a cease-fire now.
 

gopher

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And what is wrong with being a pacifist? According to the Christian Bible a nation that has faith in God has no need of a standing army as He will fight that nation's battles and win its wars.

See Psalm 27, 81:13; Isaiah 41:12; I Samuel 8:20; Luke 1:69-75.

If anything, it is not pacifists who are jeopardizing the USA or the world. It is warmongering sinners who instigate wars such as Neo-KKKons, Zionists, Republicans, and the like who are doing so. Those are the ones you should be blaming.

And remember - God PUNISHES!
 

Simpleton

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Re: RE: Pacifists versus peace

ol' dawg said:
Simpleton said:
...
The food shortage would still be there? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't weed smokers crave snacks? I would suggest that the food shortage would not only persist, but that it would be hastened.

At least that's what I've heard. I don't actually know if weed smokers get the munchies, as everytime that I've smoked weed, I was drunk and bloated. :lol:

Come to think of it, everytime that I've had sex, I was drunk and bloated. Hmmm... Beer is evil!!! :twisted: :twisted:

Naw, couldn't be the beer, probably that pizza that got you bloated.

And if you got laid after a couple beers, that's a good thing. :D

Naw, it was always the beer. Beer makes me feel tired, bloated, and it leaves a crappy taste in my mouth. Almost everytime I've gone out drinking beer, I usually ended up ordering orange juice after a while.

Kind of reminds me of a time I went to strip joint with a friend. A stripper that was sitting at our table with us, asked what I was drinking. I said, "orange juice." She couldn't believe that I was drinking plain ole orange juice. A little while later she asked my buddy why I was just drinking orange juice. She thought I was deranged. :lol: Hmmm... Oh well... I guess I just didn't want to drink that foul tasting piss that people call beer. :lol: