Why are American lives worth more than Iraqi's

[GuyIncognito]

With the Civillian death toll rising in Iraq daily and currently listed at approx. 38725 thru 43140 (not including Afganistan) how is it possible for Americans to continue support for this farce of a war that has done nothing but increase terror and kill innocents, how do they live with themselves and why is it an American life worth more than an Iraqi or Afgan life?
I cannot get my head around it
IBC - http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

 

[Colpy]

With the Civillian death toll rising in Iraq daily and currently listed at approx. 38725 thru 43140 (not including Afganistan) how is it possible for Americans to continue support for this farce of a war that has done nothing but increase terror and kill innocents, how do they live with themselves and why is it an American life worth more than an Iraqi or Afgan life?
I cannot get my head around it
IBC - http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

How do you blame the Americans for the entire loss of civilian lives? I can't get my head around THAT!

Certainly the war in Iraq has proven to be somewhat of a fiasco for the Americans. I just hope they can make the best out of it. They really have absolutely no choice now but to stay the course.

 

[GuyIncognito]

The whole topic of Muslim vs. Muslim is a topic probably left for another board as it could be argued many ways, but I agree they cannot withdraw now there must be a way to be honorable and do something to actually help remedy the situation which they have caused.

 

[#juan]

Colpy wrote:

How do you blame the Americans for the entire loss of civilian lives? I can't get my head around THAT!

Certainly the war in Iraq has proven to be somewhat of a fiasco for the Americans. I just hope they can make the best out of it. They really have absolutely no choice now but to stay the course.

The war in Iraq was started with lies and more lies. The reasons for this war changed at least four times. Why did the Americans brag about "shock and awe" in what was supposed to be a "liberation"? This war has been an unmitigated cock-up from day one. The Americans can be blamed because they started the damned war.

The civil war that everyone warned about has already started. The sectarian violence grows every week.

That the Americans are still there, after close to three thousand American soldiers are killed, and tens of thousands badly injured, demonstrates that they are caught in a trap of their own making. They are no closer to "victory" than they were a year ago.

Please tell us again how this is not an "oil war".

 

[Mogz]

I personally refuse to blame all the deaths in Iraq on the Americans. Their own people have been killing eachother for decades, Sunni vs Shia, it's a perpetual cycle, that has only become prevelant because of the War. No one reported on it before, now it's trendy. In the 21st Century, blaming everything on America is the crutch the World uses. Get over yourselves, there are greater concerns on this planet than the United States.

why is it an American life worth more than an Iraqi or Afgan life?

I'm sure the Americans are slightly more partial to their own people, just like I feel a Canadian life is more important than an Afghan. Call me a bigot or racist, or some fancy hybrid, but that doesn't change the fact i'm a patriot and support my nation and it's people first and foremost.

 

[I think not]

With the Civillian death toll rising in Iraq daily and currently listed at approx. 38725 thru 43140 (not including Afganistan) how is it possible for Americans to continue support for this farce of a war that has done nothing but increase terror and kill innocents, how do they live with themselves and why is it an American life worth more than an Iraqi or Afgan life?
I cannot get my head around it
IBC - http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

You can't get your head around it because your narrow-minded, I would assume your head was well wrapped around the fact Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator, but posed no threat hence as long as it was over there, everything was fine, yes?

Now, I was not for the war in Iraq, at least not the way it was conducted. It required UN approval, but I doubt it would have gone through due to Russian, French and German interests.

We're in it, we have to fix it, whatever the costs whatever the price, if you wish, we "broke" it we have to fix it.

 

[I think not]

Please tell us again how this is not an "oil war".

That's a good point #juan, please show us data of oil pumped and sold.

 

[gc]

Please tell us again how this is not an "oil war".

That's a good point #juan, please show us data of oil pumped and sold.

Somebody sure is making a profit:

The company's contracts in Iraq are expected to have generated more than $13 billion in sales by the time they start to expire in 2006, but most offer low margins — less than 2% on average in 2003 and just 1.4% this year for the logistics work [citation needed] making these contracts less profitable than Halliburton's core energy business. The contracts in Iraq will be more profitable after the US Army reimburses them for costs that were originally investigated as potentially inflated. [3]

Despite statements that the company receives low profit margins from their Iraq contracts, their stock value has gone from $9 in mid-2002 all the way up to $69 as of late-2005. Yearly revenues as of December 31st 2002 were $12.5 billion, and as of December 31st 2004 Halliburton revenues have climbed to $20.5 billion. (Yahoo Finance) The stock hit a record high in January 2006.

KBR has contracts in Iraq worth up to $18 billion, including a single no-bid contract known as "Restore Iraqi Oil" (RIO) which has an estimated worth of $7 billion.

An audit of KBR by The Pentagon’s Defense Contract Audit Agency (DCAA) found $108 million in "questioned costs" and, as of mid-March 2005, said they still had "major" unresolved issues with Halliburton.

Link

Wonder if that has anything to do with the administration that started the war....specifically Cheney?:

Dick Cheney ties

In recent years the company has become the center of several controversies involving the 2003 Iraq War and the company's ties to US Vice President Dick Cheney. Cheney retired from the company during the 2000 U.S. presidential election campaign with a severance package worth $20 million[citation needed]. As of 2004, he had received $398,548 in deferred compensation from Halliburton while Vice President.[3] Cheney also retains unexercised stock options at Halliburton, which have been valued at nearly $8 million.[3]

Concerns have been raised regarding the possible conflict of interest resulting from Cheney's deferred compensation and stock options from Halliburton. However, before entering office in 2001, Cheney bought an insurance policy that guaranteed a fixed amount of deferred payments from Halliburton each year for five years so that the payments would not depend on the company's fortunes.[3] He is legally bound by an agreement he signed which turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education. The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," preventing Cheney from taking back the options at a later date.[3]

Same link as above.

 

[I think not]

Good post gc, you didn't answer my question though, let's see data on oil pumped and sold, not the building contracts of oil installations paid for by my tax dollars. I want to see how the US oil companies are reaping and stealing Iraq's resources.

I've been asking but nobody has shown me anything.

 

[aeon]

Good post gc, you didn't answer my question though, let's see data on oil pumped and sold, not the building contracts of oil installations paid for by my tax dollars. I want to see how the US oil companies are reaping and stealing Iraq's resources.

I've been asking but nobody has shown me anything.

US coorporations didnt make that much profit because of pipelline sabotage, there is near 300 attacks on pipeline, since 2003, if i am not mistaken, even the total iraqie oil export before the war was even higher than today.

 

[DurkaDurka]

US coorporations didnt make that much profit because of pipelline sabotage, there is near 300 attacks on pipeline, since 2003, if i am not mistaken, even the total iraqie oil export before the war was even higher than today.

I assume the US is behind the sobotage acts as well, so they could have Haliburtan constantly fixing them... lining Haliburtan & Dick Cheney's pockets?

 

[gc]

Good post gc, you didn't answer my question though, let's see data on oil pumped and sold, not the building contracts of oil installations paid for by my tax dollars. I want to see how the US oil companies are reaping and stealing Iraq's resources.

I've been asking but nobody has shown me anything.

True, the U.S. oil companies are profiting from you (and other taxpayers), not iraq. But it still shows that there is some $ incentive for the war. I find it odd that the liberals were booted out for awarding $100 million to liberal friendly companies, yet over $10 billion goes to a cheney-friendly company and it seems to get less attention than the sponsorship scandal (though I guess I can't say for sure since I don't live in the U.S.). Anways that is a bit off-topic. I don't actually know what is going on with iraq oil right now, so perhaps someone more informed can answer your question. I did find this after a quick search though:

After the period of economic sanctions many of Iraq's state-owned enterprises were next to collapse. In 2003 the US led Coalition Provisional Authority drew up a framework for largescale privatization and opened up state-owned services to foreign investors. As of 2005, 64% of Iraq's oil reserves are being developed by multinational corporations, based on contracts with the Oil Ministry known as Production Sharing Contracts.[21] The insurgency campaign over recent years has hugely dampened US and British efforts to bring in such foreign investment and frequent attacks on the oil infrastructure have also had a major economic impact.

Link

Don't know exactly what they mean by "multinational corporations", whether they are mostly american (or british?) companies or not. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it unfolds.

And this (though I won't vouch for the credibility of the source as I admit it is quite one-sided):
Link

 

[Simpleton]

US coorporations didnt make that much profit because of pipelline sabotage, there is near 300 attacks on pipeline, since 2003, if i am not mistaken, even the total iraqie oil export before the war was even higher than today.

I assume the US is behind the sobotage acts as well, so they could have Haliburtan constantly fixing them... lining Haliburtan & Dick Cheney's pockets?

That would defy logic. The U.S. has a vested interest in squelching acts of sabotage and damage to infrastructure. As someone had already pointed out, the margins on Iraqi oil are incredibly low -- 2% and less -- so it would be more profitable to end violence and increase margins to more typical levels.

Although, in all fairness, the entire Iraqi war defies logic.

 

[DurkaDurka]

US coorporations didnt make that much profit because of pipelline sabotage, there is near 300 attacks on pipeline, since 2003, if i am not mistaken, even the total iraqie oil export before the war was even higher than today.

I assume the US is behind the sobotage acts as well, so they could have Haliburtan constantly fixing them... lining Haliburtan & Dick Cheney's pockets?

That would defy logic. The U.S. has a vested interest in squelching acts of sabotage and damage to infrastructure. As someone had already pointed out, the margins on Iraqi oil are incredibly low -- 2% and less -- so it would be more profitable to end violence and increase margins to more typical levels.

Although, in all fairness, the entire Iraqi war defies logic.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[#juan]

Please tell us again how this is not an "oil war".

That's a good point #juan, please show us data of oil pumped and sold.

Typical ITN cherry picking. You pick one sentence and try to make a point. Since you only argue with that one sentence, I assume you agree that the U.S. has made a cock-up of the war that was started on lies and that all the civilian deaths wouldn't have happened if Bush, in his stupidity, hadn't been in such a hurry to intervene in a sovereign country. I assume you also agree that victory isn't any closer than it was last year.(whatever the hell victory entails)

 

[I think not]

Please tell us again how this is not an "oil war".

That's a good point #juan, please show us data of oil pumped and sold.

Typical ITN cherry picking. You pick one sentence and try to make a point. Since you only argue with that one sentence, I assume you agree that the U.S. has made a cock-up of the war that was started on lies and that all the civilian deaths wouldn't have happened if Bush, in his stupidity, hadn't been in such a hurry to intervene in a sovereign country. I assume you also agree that victory isn't any closer than it was last year.(whatever the hell victory entails)

Not my problem you can't backup your claims #juan, you just repeat what you've been told, by reading biased garbage. I repeat, show us data on oil pumped and stolen by US oil corporations. While you're at it, let us know how you keep flinging 100,000 dead everytime you get a chance.

I'm sure you will produce absolutely NOTHING.

 

[#juan]

I can certainly back up that the invasion of Iraq was based on lies. I can most definitely back up that senior U.S. military people bragged about "shock and Awe" in what was supposed to be a "liberation". Even your intellect should be able to grasp that had the war not been started, there would not have been the civilian deaths. Oh and BTW, I didn't mention a hundred thousand deaths on this topic, though that figure, according to a well known and respected medical journal, is likely to be accurate.

 

[I think not]

I'm still waiting for the information #juan. Show us where the oil has gone and a list of the 100,000 dead. Go ahead, enlighten and shut me up.

 

[Hotshot]

Re: RE: Why are American lives worth more than Iraqi's

I personally refuse to blame all the deaths in Iraq on the Americans. Their own people have been killing eachother for decades, Sunni vs Shia, it's a perpetual cycle, that has only become prevelant because of the War. No one reported on it before, now it's trendy. In the 21st Century, blaming everything on America is the crutch the World uses. Get over yourselves, there are greater concerns on this planet than the United States.

why is it an American life worth more than an Iraqi or Afgan life?

I'm sure the Americans are slightly more partial to their own people, just like I feel a Canadian life is more important than an Afghan. Call me a bigot or racist, or some fancy hybrid, but that doesn't change the fact i'm a patriot and support my nation and it's people first and foremost.

Lets face it, if the yankees didn't invade under false pretenses, there wouldn't be the problems in Iraq that there are now. Bushinski made it a personal thing when he was quoted in Time magazine that "after all he [Hussein] was the man that tried to kill my father". Shrub had no other motive than trying to get Hussein. Personally I think he should be brought up on war crime charges. He is a liar. He is deceitful. He is a terrorist. He is an idiot.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Why are American live

Lets face it, if the yankees didn't invade under false pretenses, there wouldn't be the problems in Iraq that there are now. Bushinski made it a personal thing when he was quoted in Time magazine that "after all he [Hussein] was the man that tried to kill my father". Shrub had no other motive than trying to get Hussein. Personally I think he should be brought up on war crime charges. He is a liar. He is deceitful. He is a terrorist. He is an idiot.

Do you know anything of the history of pre-war Iraq? If you did you'd know that Husseins Bathe Party made it a habit of killing Shia Muslims and Kurds on a regular basis. In fact, Hussein had nerve gas tests done on the Kurds in the North of Iraq back in 1988 and then had them attacked again in 1993 with posion gas. Your post is typical of Western society. Utterly lacking in any historical background information, and therefore completely devoid of forethought. It's a Western knee-jerk stigma. Bush is bad. The War is a lie. Iraq was peaceful before the U.S. showed up. No hotshot, Iraq was a mess before the U.S., and it's a mess still today. The only reason you know about it now, is because CNN is up to their rotator cuff in news coverage of everything that happens over there.