Abu Gharib Soldier only gets 90 days

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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FORT MEADE, Md. - A military jury sentenced an Army dog handler to 90 days hard labor and a reduction in rank Friday for allowing his Belgian shepherd to bark within inches of an Iraqi detainee's face at Abu Ghraib prison.

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Army Sgt. Santos A. Cardona was the 11th soldier convicted of crimes stemming from the abuse of inmates at the prison in late 2003 and early 2004.

He was found guilty of dereliction of duty and aggravated assault for allowing his dog to bark in the face of a kneeling detainee at the request of another soldier who wasn't an interrogator.

The military jury acquitted him of other charges, including unlawfully having his dog bite a detainee and conspiring with another dog handler to frighten prisoners as a game.

It wasn't clear where Cardona, who was based at Fort Bragg, N.C., will serve the sentence or what sort of hard labor he will be require to do. He won't be confined during the sentence.

Cardona's rank was reduced to specialist and the court ordered him to forfeit $600 a month in pay for 12 months.

"It wasn't an acquittal," Cardona's civilian attorney, Harvey Volzer, told his client, "but it was pretty darn good."

Prosecutor Maj. Matthew Miller had recommended 12 months confinement and a bad conduct discharge.

"You can win all kinds of battles and end up losing the whole dang war basically for boneheaded decisions and misjudgments," Miller told the jury.

Santos' military lawyer, Capt. Kirsten M. Mayer, said Miller exaggerated the circumstances.

"What we have here is a soldier who let his dog get too close to a detainee, and the dog barked," she told the jury.

Although none of the offenses was alleged to have occurred during interrogations, Cardona's defense team focused on interrogation policies, including three memos issued in a month's time by Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, then commander of U.S. forces in Iraq.

The memos authorized harsher interrogation techniques such as stress positions, sleep deprivation and dogs at Abu Ghraib — but only with written authorization.

The changing policies confounded Col. Thomas M. Pappas, an intelligence officer who assumed the prison's management in late 2003. Pappas was reprimanded last year for approving a request to use dogs in an interrogation without Sanchez' approval — something Pappas testified he believed at the time the policy allowed.

"We were all confused at one time or another," Pappas testified.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060602/ap_on_re_us/prison_abuse_dogs

This is unbelivable. And all you people who say these soldiers who commit crimes in Iraq will get punishment. I'm still waiting, the worst was ten years. Please :roll: :roll:

If you kill someone, you should get life plain and simple.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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COME ON!

He had his dog BARK at somebody.

This cost him $7200 and 90 days in jail.

GET REAL!

This is fit punishment for what amounted to intimidation.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
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Re: RE: Abu Gharib Soldier only gets 90 days

Colpy said:
COME ON!

He had his dog BARK at somebody.

This cost him $7200 and 90 days in jail.

GET REAL!

This is fit punishment for what amounted to intimidation.


Being naked, blinded and being bark by a big dog, when you are in desperate and traumatised state, when in fact it violates geneva convention, deserves something more serious than 90 days in jail and 7200$ us, especially us money worth not much these days.

However when you look at the sentence of the pilote who killed accidently 4 canadians, which was 5000$us, is quite better,especially when you think the pilot was on speed-amphitamine.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
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Great Satan
Well you have to know a little something about the military to know that this so-called light sentence just ended his career also. Being reduced in rank and given what is in his record now, he is done in the Army. He won't be promoted again, and he won't get an honorable discharge, and his re-enlistment code will be so bad that no other service will take him. Civilian government jobs will also be out of the question. He is effectively done with any type of government work. Unless he finds a job as a dog catcher maybe...Who knows..maybe he can start a "dog-barked-in-my-face" therapy service and offer it to that poor innocent insurgent at a discount as a show of contrition.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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thomaska you can keep blaming all you want. The guy did an action he deserves a harsher sentence, and if he can't find a job afterward that is too f*ing bad, the military is suppose to uphold values and if he does something criminal too f*ing bad for him, he should have thought of his actions.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
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Jersay said:
thomaska you can keep blaming all you want. The guy did an action he deserves a harsher sentence, and if he can't find a job afterward that is too f*ing bad, the military is suppose to uphold values and if he does something criminal too f*ing bad for him, he should have thought of his actions.

Hey beautiful mind, Not sure who or what I blamed but I certainly didnt defend the boneheads actions. The JAG that sentenced him obviously took into account what a bad conduct discharge is and the stigma he will carry for the rest of his life. I'm curious to know what you think would be an appropriate sentence then? Maybe they could get a little "sharia" on him and lop off the hand that was holding the leash?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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think about this for a moment......put aside your bias against Americans and imagine, if you will, a first-time offender in Canada pulled up on charges of intimidation.........the guy would be unfortunate to see the inside of a courtroom, much less a jail cell.

He would essentially get a stern talking to by the judge.......probation.......THAT IS IT!!!!!

This guy has been punished, and harshly, considering the insignificance of his crime.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Abu Gharib Soldier only gets 90 days

thomaska said:
Well you have to know a little something about the military to know that this so-called light sentence just ended his career also. Being reduced in rank and given what is in his record now,

Being reduced in rank is absotly nothing at all. Next time he will think about it twice.



thomaska said:
he is done in the Army.

And?

thomaska said:
He won't be promoted again, and he won't get an honorable discharge

Ok and?

thomaska said:
, and his re-enlistment code will be so bad that no other service will take him. Civilian government jobs will also be out of the question. He is effectively done with any type of government work.

And? There is millions of jobs, that has nothing to do with governement.


thomaska said:
Unless he finds a job as a dog catcher maybe...Who knows..maybe he can start a "dog-barked-in-my-face" therapy service and offer it to that poor innocent insurgent at a discount as a show of contrition.

How do you know the guy was an insurgent?? who told you that?


And there is absotly nothing wrong of being an insurgent, what is wrong is to invade a country based on a lie, and killed innoncent people in the name of freedom.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Hey beautiful mind, Not sure who or what I blamed but I certainly didnt defend the boneheads actions. The JAG that sentenced him obviously took into account what a bad conduct discharge is and the stigma he will carry for the rest of his life. I'm curious to know what you think would be an appropriate sentence then? Maybe they could get a little "sharia" on him and lop off the hand that was holding the leash?

Nope, I think at least six months in prison and not a reduction of rank :roll: a dishounorable discharge immediately.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Here's something to compare this incident with.

Twenty year old Robert Linklater stabbed his girlfriend 12 times in the stomach, then slashed her across the neck, and continued to punch and kick her after she fell unconscious. In the opinion of the Emergency Room doctor, she survived ONLY because she was "morbidly obese".

What was Mr. LinkLater's sentence?

Six MONTHS conditional, SERVED IN THE COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!

No jail time. This despite the fact he had
57 (that's FIFTY-SEVEN) previous convictions AT THE AGE OF TWENTY!!!!!

Needless to say he showed his appreciation of the court's leniency by stabbing another woman.........this time he killed her.

Now, I think it is time you people took a LONG look in the mirror, and seriously thought about how your obsession with anti-Americanism is effecting your thought processes.....I'm dead serious.

I simply can't believe the attitude of the lefties here, who are not happy with a large fine, 90 days in jail, and a ruined career for having a dog BARK at a guy, while they can't even see, or perhaps they even approve of, the insane leniency that goes on in Canadian courts.

BTW, just to throw another log on the fire, Mr. Linklater is a Cree Indian.
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
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To get off like this Linklater's victims must all have been aboriginal. Canada assigns very little value to an aborignal's life hence the low sentence.

90 days does seem sufficient in this case.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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sanch said:
To get off like this Linklater's victims must all have been aboriginal. Canada assigns very little value to an aborignal's life hence the low sentence.

90 days does seem sufficient in this case.

Linklater committed his crimes in Toronto......I don't know the race of his earlier victims, but the lady he murdered was named Ivancicevic, hardly a native American name.
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
0
16
Colpy said:
sanch said:
To get off like this Linklater's victims must all have been aboriginal. Canada assigns very little value to an aborignal's life hence the low sentence.

90 days does seem sufficient in this case.

Linklater committed his crimes in Toronto......I don't know the race of his earlier victims, but the lady he murdered was named Ivancicevic, hardly a native American name.

This really surprises me as most cases of lenience for aboriginals occur when the crime is against aboriginals. This also applies when the victim is a visible minority and a woman. For the most part when domestic abuse occurs in the Muslim community it is considered an internal matter.

There was a case in Canada where a Muslim man sodomized his step daughter. He got off and the Judge commended him for the consideration he showed his daughter by not taking her virginity. A Trinidadian-Canadian wrote a book with a collection of these cases.

There are different standards which is what I think you were trying to point out.

Any of the special treatment stuff does not usually apply in Canada when the perpetrator or victim is white though which makes this case hard to understand.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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sanch said:
Canada assigns very little value to an aborignal's life hence the low sentence. .

Hey, thats pretty cool thinking, ugly truth kinda thing.

If an indian's life is worthless, then when he takes lives, its not worth punishing... well, it doesn't really add up, but point taken.

As for having a dog bark in your face, it seems pretty mild until you take the situation into mind. Sing along to the tune of an old Beatles song:
Picture yourself on a leash held by Soldiers
threatening to kill you unless you give info
Then they bring out the big dog with fangs,
..and show him your balls as if they are dog food.
Wouldn't that scare you, you big soldier boy?
Woudn't it stay with you thru all your life?
Chorus:
Inside Abu Ghirab with torturers [repeat]

---

Ya ya ya.
Ok, so its just fear, but these prisoners may have allready been tortured physically. That would make the effect of the big dog tactic even worse - the soldiers use these tactics because they produce so much fear.

We know that mental damage is as hard to fix and as destructive over time as physical injury. Even the US soldiers are having a 50% rate of "seeing a councellor", mental issues, when returning from this war - imagine being in the other side - the brutalised side - of the brutality by MARINES that bothers MARINES!!

Did any of these dogs ever get to bite any of the prisoners? The tortured prisoners would all know it could happen then...
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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sanch said:
Colpy said:
sanch said:
To get off like this Linklater's victims must all have been aboriginal. Canada assigns very little value to an aborignal's life hence the low sentence.

90 days does seem sufficient in this case.

Linklater committed his crimes in Toronto......I don't know the race of his earlier victims, but the lady he murdered was named Ivancicevic, hardly a native American name.

This really surprises me as most cases of lenience for aboriginals occur when the crime is against aboriginals. This also applies when the victim is a visible minority and a woman. For the most part when domestic abuse occurs in the Muslim community it is considered an internal matter.

There was a case in Canada where a Muslim man sodomized his step daughter. He got off and the Judge commended him for the consideration he showed his daughter by not taking her virginity. A Trinidadian-Canadian wrote a book with a collection of these cases.

There are different standards which is what I think you were trying to point out.

Any of the special treatment stuff does not usually apply in Canada when the perpetrator or victim is white though which makes this case hard to understand.

Well, the FIRST woman he stabbed, the one that lived, may well have been an Indian........perhaps that is why the 6 month conditional sentence.......and he has been found guilty of first degree murder in the death of the woman, and should get 25 years.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
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Karlin said:
sanch said:
Canada assigns very little value to an aborignal's life hence the low sentence. .

Hey, thats pretty cool thinking, ugly truth kinda thing.

If an indian's life is worthless, then when he takes lives, its not worth punishing... well, it doesn't really add up, but point taken.

As for having a dog bark in your face, it seems pretty mild until you take the situation into mind. Sing along to the tune of an old Beatles song:
Picture yourself on a leash held by Soldiers
threatening to kill you unless you give info
Then they bring out the big dog with fangs,
..and show him your balls as if they are dog food.
Wouldn't that scare you, you big soldier boy?
Woudn't it stay with you thru all your life?
Chorus:
Inside Abu Ghirab with torturers [repeat]

---

Ya ya ya.
Ok, so its just fear, but these prisoners may have allready been tortured physically. That would make the effect of the big dog tactic even worse - the soldiers use these tactics because they produce so much fear.

We know that mental damage is as hard to fix and as destructive over time as physical injury. Even the US soldiers are having a 50% rate of "seeing a councellor", mental issues, when returning from this war - imagine being in the other side - the brutalised side - of the brutality by MARINES that bothers MARINES!!

Did any of these dogs ever get to bite any of the prisoners? The tortured prisoners would all know it could happen then...

Absolutely I understand this was intimidation and not at all correct behaviour towards prisoners.....but he DIDN'T feed the dog the prisoner's balls, he just frightened him.

He deserved punishment, and he was punished, fairly severely considering he caused no physical harm.
 

dekhqonbacha

Electoral Member
Apr 30, 2006
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Jersay said:
...

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