Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex. Mo

LeCentre

New Member
May 21, 2006
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In the past hour I've come across two more really dumb arguments for the Arab side of things in the conflict between them and the Israelis. I personally favour a two-state solution, but when I see people resorting to vile demonizing of Israelis and other stupid arguments, it annoys me because rather than bringing peace closer, these sophistries (arguments that pretend to be logical) develop hatred and make peace more difficult. I put "Palestinians" in quotation for a historical reason I'll mention below.
Here's the sort of thing I mean when I say dumb arguments.

From Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893302474/104-1800705-0085553?v=glance&n=283155
Book Description
The true story behind 9-11, delivered by a meticulous researcher. . . "Every news story about 9-11 that is contained in this book is true and easily verifiable," states author, Dr. Albert D. Pastore [a penname]. "My investigation represents 12 months of careful study, painstaking research, detailed analysis, source verification and logical deduction.

Here's something from his site, which you can find by googling his name:
"I intend to set forth in this paper an overwhelming body of evidence which should forever destroy the ridiculous notion that a Saudi caveman and his band of half-trained, nerdy Arab flight school students, orchestrated the most sophisticated terror operation in world history."

He's a conspiracy theorist looking to prove how 9/11 wasn't really carried out by who everyone knows carried it out, namely 19 Saudi Arabian terrorists who are part of al-Qaeda. Incidentally, this genius "Dr", - who is obviously only a Dr by pen name - is cited as a reference on Israel supposedly carrying out terrorism abroad, as in a supposed plot to blow up Mexico's Parliament. Now, let alone the incredibly ridiculous idea here - that Israel has any interest in blowing up the Mexican Parliament to begin with - citing such a source obviously discredits the person doing the citing, and their argument.
(Of course, according to this insulting (to anyone of even moderate intelligence) narrative the all-powerful Israelis get handed back to their home government cleanly. Not convinced that the "Dr" i full of nonsense? Go to his website http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/Pastore_Investigation_of_ 9-11/chapter_1--Opening_Statement.htm and consider the kind of material he's published, and the ads he has on his site. Notice the spammy ads and other conspiracy nonsense. Consider why he's writing under a pen name. If he really has done great investigative reporting on this level, wouldn't he win a Pulitzer Prize for it, or at least be better known? Logical thinking and analysis shows this guy's yet another hack, and I'm being polite.

As to "Palestinians" - The Phillistines were an ancient people with no relation to the modern-day "Palestinians". The Romans re-named Israel 'Palestine' when they won a military victory over the Israelites there. (To insult them, since the Israelites had conquered the Phillistines). Note that the Phillistines still existed after being conquered; they weren't made extinct by the conquering Israelite tribes)
Fast-forward to the early 20th Century, where Palestinian (without quotations) refers to anyone living in the British protectorate of Palestine (current Israel and then some) - a MAJORITY of whom were Jews. So Palestinians aren't just Arabs, but everyone who had citizenship in the old Protectorate, or whatever the equivalent is to being a citizen in a protectorate.

Anyways, like I wrote on the topic of the Religious Left in these forums, how about some tolerance? Enough lies and nonsense aimed at making the other side look evil.
 

FascistCanuck

New Member
May 23, 2006
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Re: Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex

LeCentre said:
In the past hour I've come across two more really dumb arguments for the Arab side of things in the conflict between them and the Israelis. I personally favour a two-state solution, but when I see people resorting to vile demonizing of Israelis and other stupid arguments, it annoys me because rather than bringing peace closer, these sophistries (arguments that pretend to be logical) develop hatred and make peace more difficult. I put "Palestinians" in quotation for a historical reason I'll mention below.
Here's the sort of thing I mean when I say dumb arguments.

From Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893302474/104-1800705-0085553?v=glance&n=283155
Book Description
The true story behind 9-11, delivered by a meticulous researcher. . . "Every news story about 9-11 that is contained in this book is true and easily verifiable," states author, Dr. Albert D. Pastore [a penname]. "My investigation represents 12 months of careful study, painstaking research, detailed analysis, source verification and logical deduction.

Here's something from his site, which you can find by googling his name:
"I intend to set forth in this paper an overwhelming body of evidence which should forever destroy the ridiculous notion that a Saudi caveman and his band of half-trained, nerdy Arab flight school students, orchestrated the most sophisticated terror operation in world history."

He's a conspiracy theorist looking to prove how 9/11 wasn't really carried out by who everyone knows carried it out, namely 19 Saudi Arabian terrorists who are part of al-Qaeda. Incidentally, this genius "Dr", - who is obviously only a Dr by pen name - is cited as a reference on Israel supposedly carrying out terrorism abroad, as in a supposed plot to blow up Mexico's Parliament. Now, let alone the incredibly ridiculous idea here - that Israel has any interest in blowing up the Mexican Parliament to begin with - citing such a source obviously discredits the person doing the citing, and their argument.
(Of course, according to this insulting (to anyone of even moderate intelligence) narrative the all-powerful Israelis get handed back to their home government cleanly. Not convinced that the "Dr" i full of nonsense? Go to his website http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/Pastore_Investigation_of_ 9-11/chapter_1--Opening_Statement.htm and consider the kind of material he's published, and the ads he has on his site. Notice the spammy ads and other conspiracy nonsense. Consider why he's writing under a pen name. If he really has done great investigative reporting on this level, wouldn't he win a Pulitzer Prize for it, or at least be better known? Logical thinking and analysis shows this guy's yet another hack, and I'm being polite.

As to "Palestinians" - The Phillistines were an ancient people with no relation to the modern-day "Palestinians". The Romans re-named Israel 'Palestine' when they won a military victory over the Israelites there. (To insult them, since the Israelites had conquered the Phillistines). Note that the Phillistines still existed after being conquered; they weren't made extinct by the conquering Israelite tribes)
Fast-forward to the early 20th Century, where Palestinian (without quotations) refers to anyone living in the British protectorate of Palestine (current Israel and then some) - a MAJORITY of whom were Jews. So Palestinians aren't just Arabs, but everyone who had citizenship in the old Protectorate, or whatever the equivalent is to being a citizen in a protectorate.

Anyways, like I wrote on the topic of the Religious Left in these forums, how about some tolerance? Enough lies and nonsense aimed at making the other side look evil.

Were I the Israelis, I would refuse to tolerate the actions of the Palestinians. I too prefer the two-state idea as was originally sought by my British forebears when they handed Palestine over to the United Nations. Please be reminded the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for the current mess they are in. The original plan called for the splitting of Palestine into two states. The Arab Palestinians would have none of it and thus began attacks upon the Jews. The Palestinians made their bed. Let them lie in it.

Were it up to me and me alone, I would drive the Palestinians out of Israel completely by force. I would remove all 'rights' the Palestinians currently enjoy with jobs in Israel proper. I would put forth an order to my military that if one bomb touches Israel, the territory from which it originated, even if it is a sovereign Arab state, would be invaded a la Lebanon.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
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Re: Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex

FascistCanuck said:
Were I the Israelis, I would refuse to tolerate the actions of the Palestinians. I too prefer the two-state idea as was originally sought by my British forebears when they handed Palestine over to the United Nations. Please be reminded the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for the current mess they are in. The original plan called for the splitting of Palestine into two states. The Arab Palestinians would have none of it and thus began attacks upon the Jews. The Palestinians made their bed. Let them lie in it.

Were it up to me and me alone, I would drive the Palestinians out of Israel completely by force. I would remove all 'rights' the Palestinians currently enjoy with jobs in Israel proper. I would put forth an order to my military that if one bomb touches Israel, the territory from which it originated, even if it is a sovereign Arab state, would be invaded a la Lebanon.
Code:
It is all palestinians fault, no doubt, just like it was the jews fault, when nazi decided to burn them all.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
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Independent Palestine
Re: Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex

Then stop painting the Israeli side lilly white.

Come on how can you criticize Palestinians and Palestinians supporters and then say be fair when you go against Israel and all it has done over the years. From terrorism to other things, you people bring up Arab terrorists, there were even more Jewish terrorists during this time period, killing Arabs and British soldiers.

And the majority in the area wasn't Jewish. There were Jewish and Arab communities in the Palestinian mandate and they only increased in size once foreign Jews came after WWII.

So villifying Palestinians and trying to paint Israelis and saying everything should be fair is a bunch of hogwash.

Present evidence about what Palestinians have done, and present evidence that Israel has done.

And Fascist Canuck. The Israelis also rejected the plan, settlement for the two state solution because they believed it would be unfair for them and then decided to take the rest of the land that wasn't occupied by Eqypt and Jordan.

So both sides rejected the agreement not just one.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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Re: Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex

The partition plan was rejected out of hand by the leadership of the Palestinian Arabs and by most of the Arab population. Most of the Jews accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation. Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. Up to this day, Israeli history books mention 29 November, the date of this session, as the most important date leading to the creation of the Israeli state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
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Re: Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex

And of course you forgot this.....


Several Jews, however, declined the proposal. Menachem Begin, Irgun's leader, announced: "The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature by institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. The Land of Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for ever". His views were publicly rejected by the majority of the nascent Jewish state. Palestinian Arabs, on the other hand, claim that this publicly expressed acceptance was mainly propaganda for the consumption of Western nations, and that Begin's statement more accurately reflected the real intentions of the founders of the State of Israel.


Menachem begin, is from the same party as sharon, which i don tremember the name, and was prime minister of israel from 1977-1983
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
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SW Ontario
Re: Dumb Arguments Discrediting "Palestinians", ex

Has anybody heard of Jordan? How is there not a two state solution already? Judea and Somara should go to Israel.

Seriously, Jews "occupying" Judea. Please.