Israel: Foreigners taking over a terrority

[Jersay]

First off the Balfour Declaration of 1917 would create a Jewish HOMELAND which doesn't mean anything like a state, and even if it means state the Zionist Federation was suppose to accept other 'peoples' religious and political aspects. Which mean respect the Palestinian people. Which has never occured.

Balfour Declaration:

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w041117A.xml

The British were suppose to mandate the territory of Palestine after the first world war. However, with back-stabbing between Jewish and Palestinian people they wanted to support the Zionist movement.

British Mandate of Palestine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Great_Uprising

Now after WWII, foreign Jewish people, not the Jewish or Arab people who had lived in Palestinian territory arrived into the territory and started taking up territory, not respecting Arab rights which made the Arab community nervous about land title. Then these foreign Jewish, Zionist people, did terrorist actions which resulted in communal violence, killing many innocent people and expelled hundreds of thousands of Palestinian people.

Palestinian Exodus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus

So with foreigners trying to take over land and killing people, why do people condem Palestinian people who were the people who lived in the area. Why support people who did terrorist actions to achieve a state?

 

[Jay]

How much of the British Mandate fell into Arab hands?

 

[fuzzylogix]

The Western World is a huge culprit in the fiasco of the Middle East. At first, the Jews were gradually emigrating into the British Mandate of Palestine, at the urging of Britain. Then, as the holocaust made the Jews plight unforgiveably worse, Churchill decided that this must be their home. When he was discussing it with Abdul Aziz, House of Sa'ud, he was disgusted that the Arabs weren't happy about giving up their land to them. Abdul Aziz suggested that they be given a part of Germany to have as their home, and Churchill indicated that they were the innocent victims of war and how could they be expected to stay in Germany! So Abdul, rationally, suggested that Churchill might want to deal with this in the Bedoin way. After a war, the Bedoins gathered up all victims of the war, and the victims were divided up amongst the victor's villages to be assimilated into their homes. Abdul suggested that Churchill should have all the victor countries of WWII take up all the Jewish victims of the war and divide them amongst their countries and welcome them with open arms.

It is very sad that Churchill did not take the advice of Abdul. If all of our countries had opened our arms to the Jews, they wouldnt have had to run not just from Germany, but from all of us too, and the Palestinians could have kept their land.

 

[jimmoyer]

fuzzylogix, now what ?

You giving up your home to that ancestral tribe yet?

Now what ?

Support the killing by both sides?

Overlook the Jewish sin?

Overlook the Arab sin for taunting and hoping
one of their own innocents die to keep the fire burning?

Now what ?

Ignore the fact that a two state solution
originally mandated in 1948 when the West
imposed this monstrosity is still now our only best bet ?

Jordan had 19 years to give nationhood that has just only
now happened. Nineteen years of Arab oil dollar investment
could have really helped. Instead the Arabs let their Palestinian
brothers seek jobs from the Jew.

It's a mess, we of the West created it, exacerbated it.

But NOW WHAT ???

 

[fuzzylogix]

You are quite right, jimmoyer, now what? Now that there are generations of people on both sides who have grown up being taught to hate. Mandating land for each side doesnt seem to work, possibly because the division hardly seems fair. I would happily open my arms to allow immigration into Canada. But would the Jews accept this? Probably not, there is too much invested history and bloodshed in the land to leave it. There were many who refused to leave even the Gaza Strip.

I dont have any solution. I have to admit I am pessimistic. I feel sorry for the individuals on both sides who desperately want peace and who would gladly compromise and give up something to get peace. But each side has some radical individuals with or not with the governments, who are determined to fight to the end. Do you have a solution? It is one thing to quote a two state mandate and quite another to actually have an agreement by all individuals for this.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Israel: Foreigners taking over a terrority

Mandating land for each side doesnt seem to work, possibly because the division hardly seems fair.

How was the Mandate unfair?

 

[jimmoyer]

Jay, the mandate was unfair at its inception.

Despite the irony that the 2-state mandate in 1948
is the only solution available for people to get on with
their lives, the original false choice offered the Arabs
was just that, A FALSE CHOICE, purporting to be fair.

Yes, two states were offered, and yes, it was
Britain's to give if you live by the code of the conqueror
as we all live on Indian lands here in North America.

But where I part company with those who rail
against the Jew is their utter disregard of the evils
perpetuated by the Arabs as well.

Let's get on with this.

Let those 40 and over live and have a family and
a job, and smack the crap out of the unemployed
teenage wasteland that rules Palestine and cynically
manipulated by the Arab elites, and killed by the Jews
and killed by the arab manipulators inviting and taunting
the Jew.

Enough.

Israel isn't going away.

Move on and save what you can out of life.

And none of us arguing over who is morally superior
gets my vote.

And here's a strange thought.

If the two can live together and move on, it might
be the only true wisdom and highest wisdom we can
ask.

 

[cortezzz]

Re: RE: Israel: Foreigners taking over a terrority

I dont have any solution. quote]

you should never use the word ---solution---
in association with this problem

 

[fuzzylogix]

Have both sides been given amounts of land proportional to their populations... with equal natural resources, and religious sites of importance? Answer: Look at a map!

 

[jimmoyer]

Actually the Brits gave a larger proportion of its
Palestine Mandate to Transjordan. Jordan got
the lion share.

It's just not about that anymore.

You'll see.

Look down on the ground you stand on.

It wasn't yours.

 

[cortezzz]

solution
isreal and palestine
2 states
both members of EU

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Israel: Foreigners taking over a terrority

Yes, two states were offered, and yes, it was
Britain's to give if you live by the code of the conqueror
as we all live on Indian lands here in North America.

It's the beginning of the issue and we need to look at it from this perspective. If the Arabs had accepted the deal which placed 83% of the land in the hands of the Arabs we wouldn't be discussing this as an issue.

People around here like to pretend that a fair deal wasn't offered and accepted by all parties accept the Arabs. The two state solution was right there in front of them and the Arabs chose war and now they are screwed. Too bad.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Israel: Foreigners ta

Looks like something the UN could handle, if were allowed to have a UN.

 

[Johnny Utah]

God Bless The State of Israel.
http://www.stateofisrael.com/

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Israel: Foreigners ta

Which God Johnny.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Israel: Foreigners ta

Looks like something the UN could handle, if were allowed to have a UN.

http://www.stateofisrael.com/



United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181
November 29, 1947


Hmmmm.....

 

[fuzzylogix]

Re: RE: Israel: Foreigners taking over a terrority

Yes, two states were offered, and yes, it was
Britain's to give if you live by the code of the conqueror
as we all live on Indian lands here in North America.

It's the beginning of the issue and we need to look at it from this perspective. If the Arabs had accepted the deal which placed 83% of the land in the hands of the Arabs we wouldn't be discussing this as an issue.

People around here like to pretend that a fair deal wasn't offered and accepted by all parties accept the Arabs. The two state solution was right there in front of them and the Arabs chose war and now they are screwed. Too bad.

Oh fer Christs sake or Allahs sake or fer confuscious sake!
People like to pretend that a fair deal wasnt offerred???? Jay, you need to read the full history of the region. This situation began long before the declaration of the State of Israel. The British and French divided up the territory. They used the Arabs against each other to fight the Turks and then took the land from them. They became even more interested in the area when oil was discovered. All of their dealings were unfair.

And if you are saying that the land belongs to whoever has the mightier sword, then fight on Palestine.....maybe youlll get lucky!

Oh, and the Palestininians didnt just reject the two state deal. Instead, they wanted it to be their single state with the Jews coming to live in their land, and they were prepared to share the land, but they wanted to retain it as their land. I guess that wasnt generous enough.

Pick two states of the USA. Any Two. Now, give one to Palestine. And the other to Israel. Its really very simple.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Israel: Foreigners taking over a terrority

And if you are saying that the land belongs to whoever has the mightier sword, then fight on Palestine.....maybe youlll get lucky!

Good luck! :lol:

 

[Jersay]

It wasn't a fair deal Jay.

Now put yourself in the Palestinian shoes, give up most of your land and take these little areas to the north east and west which were not connected. And let Israel get most of the land.

No.

And remember, the Israelis also rejected the demand as well and I see in your ignorance you forget about Jewish terrorists who attacked villages to incite violence between Christians and Muslims and Jews.


Why should anyone give land to foreigners? No one wanted to do that in Canada or America or England or Germany, why did the Plaestinians have to suffer.

Because the Western nations wanted to ship off foreign Jewish people to someone else to deal with. Period.

 

[Jay]

No Jersay it isn't "period" not even close to it.