Immigration In America

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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I totally admire the conflict and argument about immigration
in America today.

I honor the arguments and how they are argued and how it is
fought out in America and even fought and debated in Congress.

It's full of conflicting complexity represented in Congress itself.

Admirable.

But outsiders don't know what they are seeing here.

No clue.

More on this later, if you want.

Edited to remove caps in thread title. Cosmo
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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RE: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

I'd like to repeat a 5 point solution and hear
some discussion on it.

1. Build the Wall.

Is it practical ? No. Will it succeed absolutely? No.
Is it costly to maintain? Yes. But not to build it contains
even more cost. Not to build it, makes it so much easier
for illegal immigrants. Let them build their tunnels
and ladders. Let them work hard at it.


2. Forget about EMPIRE.

And what does it matter about Empires ? That's for the dreamers. People forget the Dorian immigration/invasion and other tribal and ethnic invasions that dominated the
Greek and Roman empires. Forget about the old
paradigm of dictatorships having WALLS to keep people
trapped or the New Paradigm of WALLS to stop people
coming. This is for ivory tower pipe smokers.

3. WELCOME THEM.
Only after the Wall and border security is reasonably
achieved. Welcome them. This is good for THEM.
And this is good for US. Why? THEM and US don't
want people living in the shadows, waiting for the
other shoe to drop. This is not good for any society.

4. MAKE MEXICO KING OF ALL MANUFACTURE.
Let's invest and build up Mexico. Let's hit two birds
(mexican immigration and Chinese competition) with
one very intelligent stone. These people are hard
workers. No American white kid sends money home
to the parents. Mexicans do. Third highest segment
of their GNP.

5. GET RID OF THE MYTHS.
The whole Latino community is not one monolith.
It is fractured, fragmented by nationality, Americanized
socializing vs new non-socialized immigrants, hard workers and criminals. Let's have a little mercy for
those Americans who live on the border who have
to tote a gun to protect themselves while a very
desperate immigrant travels over a desert wasteland,
tired and hungry, and is possibly criminal in finding
a very lucrative drug trade.

Get rid of the stereotypes. This whole immigration
wave is of many colors and stripes.


This is the plan.

This is what we should do.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Re: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

Well for starters you can remove the ALL capital letters from the title of this thread because it annoys our resident FiveParadox.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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Re: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

jimmoyer, thats economically fine and good, but when you have a good part of the population which is sitting in there mobile home drinking there beer and eatting there chips in a mess, who complain about Immigrants who are taking their jobs, thinking somehow that it was their god given right to have those jobs.

1. Many immigrants come over the border and work jobs which Americans don't want to work.

2. The few who succeed in getting good jobs are hard woking individuals.

Saddly enough the amount of lazy vote rich americans are high. If they would put just as much effort into up grading their education, orginizating their lives and perhaps spending more time looking for a better job, rather then joining pointless orginizations such as the "Minute Men" then perhaps they would have better lives. Immigrants have always been a scape goat for these type of people and the politicians who feed off their votes. One there a very easy target, and the fear of the "alien" among us is often present in the nation as well.

So jimmoyer, even though everything you said makes perfect sence to me and most likely the vast magority here, it will make little sence to those Americans and even Canadians who need a scap goat, and don't fool yourself, there's alot of them.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
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RE: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

Finder, we're not dealing with people who need
scapegoats. Hell, they yak alot over their potato chips
in some beer spilled mobile home, but they barely
got it together to register to vote.

So let's not get stuck on the idiots and the stereotypes
and cartoons.

They're everywhere. Complainers are everywhere.

Forgettaboudem.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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Re: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

But do you believe economic logic can actually combat anti-immigration tones in the Sourthern USA? I highly doubt it. I can only see more walls being built. Hell I could see one being built at the Canadian border in the next 20 years.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
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RE: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

Any news network can go to a work hiring zone and the employers openly say they don't ask about immigrant status or what have you. They admit to hiring illegals, on camera. Isn't that the core of the problem, profiteers giving them employment? Is it really that difficult to enforce employment laws? Even a half measured response would make potential employers think twice about hiring them.

I think the issue is as much about politics as it is about anyone trying to fix anything.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
1
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PEI...for now
Re: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA





 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
I have always been a strong supporter of immigration, it is who we are, we are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Immigrants built this country and continue to do so, moreso in many ways today than in the past. And when I am confronted with problems regarding immigration, I let Emma Lazarus set my thinking on the right path again:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.


And if anyone is under the impression this isn't true today as it once was, you can look at the Immigration Statistics (PDF File)

2004 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
No doubt the issue of illegal immigrants is daunting, I can only hope something will be done. It is unfair for those who wait years and years to immigrate legally to the US.

Increasing border security while addressing current illegal immigrants is going to be tough. They are illegal, but I also believe a large percentage of them have contributed to society. I personally know MANY illegal immigrants, all family people, they go to work, they raise their children, BUT, pay no taxes. And that will be there key if you ask me.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
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Re: RE: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

tracy said:
Oh come on. If we don't let any illegals in, who is going to build that wall?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
The Blacks on Fox Noos have been complaining bitterly about the illegals.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
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Brown Is the New Black
by Ann Coulter
Posted Apr 12, 2006

Illegal Immigration? No Problem!

This is the only country on Earth that thinks it's not sporting to consider our own interests in choosing immigrants. Try showing up in any other country on the planet, illiterate and penniless, and announcing: "I've seen pictures of your country and it looks great. I think I'd like to live here! Oh, and by the way, would you mind changing all your government and business phone messages, street signs and ballots into my native language? Thanks!" They would laugh you out of the country.
What seems not to have occurred to the "NO HUMAN BEING IS ILLEGAL" crowd is that this is a country, not a public park.
There are more than 6 billion people in the world, many of whom apparently like the idea of living in the wealthiest democracy on Earth. But if the billions of people of the world did live here, it wouldn't be "here" anymore. America is special for a reason that must transcend the right to vote -- or everyone would be trying to immigrate to Iraq right now.
America has a seller's market in immigration, but thanks to Teddy Kennedy's 1965 immigration law, we no longer favor skilled workers from developed nations, but instead favor unskilled immigrants from the Third World. Kennedy's bill promptly cut the number of European immigrants in half and increased Third World immigrants to 85 percent of the total.
Not surprisingly, post-1965 immigrants have sharply higher levels of poverty and welfare dependence. Europeans may not seem like ideal new immigrants, but the truth is, if what they want is welfare, they'll stay in France.
It's as if we've got the last Xbox 360s available on Christmas Eve and instead of doubling the price, we're entertaining low-ball offers. Or more accurately, we're paying our customers to take the darn things off our hands -- and the customers are still indignant with us.
On CNN's "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on Monday, Dobbs was interviewing Nativo Lopez, president of the Mexican-American Political Association about his demand for "full immediate, unconditional legalization for all persons currently in the United States."
Dobbs posed this innocuous question about Lopez's planned boycott, "You're talking about a boycott of all illegal aliens in this country?"
Lopez exploded: "Well, first off, I refute your terminology. You don't say 'kike,' 'patty,' 'WOP,' OK. You don't say 'nigger'! ... You're using language that's offensive to me and offensive to my people! ... You pollute the air every day, Dobbs. ... That language is offensive, it's derogatory, it's denigrating, and don't use that terminology to me again, referring to my people!"
Dobbs eventually ended Lopez's Tourette's episode by calmly asking him what he expected the impact of the boycott to be.
An hour later on MSNBC's "Hardball," Dave Rodriguez, of the League of United Latin American Citizens, leapt in to denounce Rep. Tom Tancredo for using the word "amnesty." He said: "There isn't any such thing as amnesty in this law. I don't understand what this debate is. That's your own terminology on it ..."
Bank robbers and drug dealers ought to start claiming that the words "bank robber" and "drug dealer" are akin to the N-word. They could accuse lawmakers of "criminalizing felonies" and claim they don't understand what the word "jailbreak" means.
At the same time on CNN's "The Situation Room," Maria Elena Salinas, an anchor at Univision, was informing Wolf Blitzer that "all Hispanics feel offended by what has been going on, by the rhetoric, the level of the negativity that you hear coming out of Capitol Hill and also on some television stations and by some journalists."
So it's really more like we've got the last Xbox 360s available on Christmas Eve and the customers are not only demanding money to take the hottest sales item off our hands, but are verbally abusing us and acting petulant. I'm offended that you would even think about asking me to pay for the Xbox 360! You say it has a "20 GB detachable hard drive"? Well, would you use the word "kike"?
As hardworking as illegal immigrants are when they come here, they are immediately demagogued by liberals into adopting the victimhood pose so popular on college campuses. Everybody wants to act like his ancestors were brought here on slave ships.
Consider this e-mail from Michele Waslin, La Raza's director of Immigration Policy Research, to her members denouncing Sen. Lamar Alexander's proposal to provide government grants to immigrants who want to learn English and American history and to organizations offering those courses. (I'd be happy with a law that simply trained new immigrants not to be "offended" all the time.)
Even though this potentially meant free money for La Raza, Waslin -- of the Guadalajara Waslins -- ominously warned that while the amendment "doesn't overtly mention assimilation, it is very strong on the patriotism and traditional American values language in a way which is potentially dangerous to our communities."
Meanwhile, Americans aren't allowed to consider whether millions of immigrants refusing to learn English and American history is "potentially dangerous to our communities." Here, please -- we'll pay you, just take the whole Xbox 360 factory.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14010&o=ANN001
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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The tax issue hardly bothers me, because 5 percent
of America pays almost 36 percent of all income taxes.

And anyone earning under 25k either pays no income
tax at all or barely enough to matter buying a stamp
to mail it.

They all certainly pay sales taxes, and all sorts of fees
just to get around on a minimum basis.

And renters don't pay property taxes technically
which is the basis for most school systems.

So the tax issue on immigrants is somewhat of a false
scarecrow.

But I'm all for that game of building a wall, so
this can have a little more regulated behavior.

I don't want immigrants desparate in the shadows.

We all need to live open lives.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
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38
Seems to me Trudeau did the same thing. Stopped the point system in favour of extended family reunions.
I dont think the country's interest was in mind, but rather short term Liberal votes.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA

zoofer said:
tracy said:
Oh come on. If we don't let any illegals in, who is going to build that wall?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
The Blacks on Fox Noos have been complaining bitterly about the illegals.

I've never seen a construction crew around here that wasn't predominantly hispanic. The people waiting for jobs outside home depot are also always hispanic. I imagine construction in California would grind to a halt if not for their labor. I am hoping to watch that movie "A day without a mexican" or something like that this week while I'm off work.