Britain in decline

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
36
 
Britain's Industrial Decline: Adding Insult to Injury
William R. Hawkins
Tuesday, January 30, 2001

The British Royal Navy is planning to build two new aircraft carriers to be delivered in 2012 and 2015, at a cost of $3.3 billion. This has been a controversial decision because defense spending in the UK has been tight and the military across the board has been withering away.

This reflects the underlying long-term decline of British industry on the world stage. Nothing better demonstrates the sad plight of the country whose fleet was once called "the bulwark of the island" by the great William Blackstone than that the new warships may be built by a French corporation.

Lord Horatio Nelson, who beat the combined French and Spanish navies at Trafalgar in 1805 to assure London's global dominance, must be spinning in his grave.

In contrast, the ghost of Napoleon is undoubtedly smiling at this latest invasion effort. The French corporation is Thales, the formerly state-owned firm Thomson-CSF. It was privatized in 1996 and then changed its name after purchasing the British firm Racal Defence Electronics Ltd. Thales had also acquired Shorts Missile Systems in Belfast and Pilkington Optronics Ltd. in Glasgow to establish itself as a major contender in the UK.

Indeed, the British defense industry has declined to only one major native player: BAE SYSTEMS, which had been created by the merger of British Aerospace with Marconi Electronic Systems. As a result, the British government is actually helping position the French Thales as a prime contractor for the carrier construction program in order to maintain competition for the bid.

A hundred years ago Great Britain was the world's only Superpower. It had led the Industrial Revolution. Its empire ruled a quarter of the human race. London was the financial capital of the world. Most people still believed the popular lyric "We don't want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do; we've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too!"

But some looked below the surface. The prominent commercial lawyer Lord Penzance warned in 1886 that "The advance of other nations into those regions of manufacture in which we used to stand either alone or supreme, should make us alive to the possible future. Where we used to find customers, we now find rivals....prudence demands a dispassionate inquiry into the course we are pursuing, in place of a blind adhesion to a discredited [free trade] theory."

A great debate took place as the 20th century dawned, and the British trade deficit in manufactured goods grew. There were some hopeful "protectionist" stirrings within the Conservative Party. However, the 1906 Liberal Party landslide kept the country committed to "free trade" and the deficits continued.

Not until after the shock of World War I would England adopt new trade and industrial strategies. A system of imperial preferences meant "to make the Empire independent of other countries in respect of food supplies, raw materials and essential industries" were adopted. But by then too much ground had been lost, England could not pull out of its industrial decline.

Yale Historian Paul Kennedy has summarized the factors that led to England's fall: "a failure to invest sufficiently in new plant and laboratories, and in entire new industries; an inadequately trained work-force, and an insufficient supply of engineers and scientists as compared with foreign rivals;...a social culture which accorded far greater prestige to the professions and service industries (law, medicine, merchant banking,
stockbroking) that to the business of building ships, turbines, machine tools and other manufactures."

We cannot allow the debate over trade policy to be lost again; not if we want the United States to fare better in the 21st century than England did in the 20th century.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Your theroy is crazy, but not crazy enough to be true.
Bertold Brecht 1898-1956
-------------------------------darkbeaver-------------------

Could you at least correct your spelling for your
signature quote ??

Shheeeessh.

Sorry, all the other mis-spelling and syntax errors
are okay, but dammmit, that's your signature quote
repeatedly under your name. Methinks you're a
worse speller than George Bush.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
If you ever ran for political office, the press would
make a cartoon out of you, saying you're too stupid
to spell correctly and too stupid to speak well, just
like they say of some other notorious leader.

Like I say, if we can't drive down a two-way street
without collision, we are no better than our leaders
and politicians and in many instances we the people
are far worse than the politicians and leaders we elect.

Look at this forum.

Our leaders and politicians reflect we the people.

And we think they should be better ?

We're the couch critics, the couch hypocrites.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Welcome to the club Finder, if I can't sit back and feel comfortable typing a post then what's the point. Typo's there's no such thing, it's a faulty key board.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Sassylassie and Jimm, I never fault people for typos. I often write so fast, wild and in a rush I don't have enough time to correct my spelling, typos and grammer.

One of the best writers here who I've rarely seen make any mistakes would be fiveparadox, now he's a grammer nazi.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
The moderators should eliminate most of the ridiculous posts above. They are way off the subject matter.

The US is in decline, not even being able to control a third rate country like Iraq. along with changing their reasons monthly for being there.

The UK is respectably in the middle of the pack. A major decision they have in the future is whether to drop the pound and select the Euro, then the US and it's buck may go in steep decline.

Why does the UK need two aircraft carriers?
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
36
Re: RE: Britain in decline

dumpthemonarchy said:
Why does the UK need two aircraft carriers?

to help give them the necessary illusion of still having global reach--- and if argentina should decide to exert their rights to the malivinas-- they may come in handy

and also they would make GREAT target practice for those ultracool superfast Iranian torpedos
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: Britain in decline

dumpthemonarchy said:
The moderators should eliminate most of the ridiculous posts above. They are way off the subject matter.

The US is in decline, not even being able to control a third rate country like Iraq. along with changing their reasons monthly for being there.

The UK is respectably in the middle of the pack. A major decision they have in the future is whether to drop the pound and select the Euro, then the US and it's buck may go in steep decline.

Why does the UK need two aircraft carriers?

boo on you...


Anyhow the British have been in decline for the past 80 years. They are so far down the only place they can go is up and it looks like they are taking one last shoot right now at it. But really I don't see them being anymore then a regional power.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,405
1,667
113
cortez said:
 
in order to maintain competition for the bid.

A hundred years ago Great Britain was the world's only Superpower. It had led the Industrial Revolution. Its empire ruled a quarter of the human race. London was the financial capital of the world. Most people still believed the popular lyric "We don't want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do; we've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too!"

.

And soon it will be the financial capital of the world again.

Also, foreign companies taking over British companies is a GOOD thing for Britain. It shows how OPEN our economy is.

Whereas the French, Germans, Italians and Spanish have all been slammed by experts around the world for their closed borders and too much protectionism, Britain has been praised for its open economy.

It's one of the things that puts the Great into Great Britain.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,405
1,667
113
Re: RE: Britain in decline

Finder said:
dumpthemonarchy said:
Anyhow the British have been in decline for the past 80 years. They are so far down the only place they can go is up and it looks like they are taking one last shoot right now at it. But really I don't see them being anymore then a regional power.

Where is Britain in the world compared to Canada?

The world's 4th largest economy compared to Canada's 7th or 8th, and will soon overtake Germany to become the largest economy in Europe for the first time since 1959. A population of 61 million compared to Canada's poxy 33 million. The world's 2nd most pwoerful navy and the EU's most powerful armed forces. A capital city that is soon to overtake New York as the world's financial capital. The world's largest mobile phones company (Vodaphone), 4 of the world's 10 largest tobacco companies, and is the ONLY country in the G7 (which includes Canada) that has NOT had a recession since 1997.