Americans charged for War crimes

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Independent Palestine
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Residents gave new details Monday about the shootings of civilians in a western Iraqi town, where the U.S. military is investigating allegations of potential misconduct by American troops last November.


The residents said troops entered homes and shot and killed 15 members of two families, including a 3-year-old girl, after a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine.

The military, which announced Friday that a dozen Marines are under investigation for possible war crimes in the Nov. 19 incident, said in a statement Monday that a videotape of the aftermath of the shootings in Haditha, 140 miles northwest of Baghdad, was presented in support of the allegations.

The charges against the Marines were first brought forward by Time magazine, which reported this week that it obtained a videotape two months ago taken by a Haditha journalism student that shows the dead still in their nightclothes.

The magazine report mirrored what was told independently to The Associated Press by residents who described what happened as "a massacre." However, Time said the available evidence did not prove conclusively that the Marines deliberately killed innocents.

A military spokeswoman said Monday the allegations were being taken "very seriously."

Khaled Ahmed Rsayef, whose brother and six other relatives were killed, said the roadside bomb exploded at about 7:15 a.m. in the al-Subhani neighborhood, heavily damaging a U.S. Humvee.

A U.S. military statement in November described it as an ambush on a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol that left 15 civilians, eight insurgents and a U.S. Marine dead in the bombing and a subsequent firefight. The statement said the 15 civilians were killed by the blast, a claim residents denied.

The residents said the only shooting done after the bombing was by U.S. forces.

"American troops immediately cordoned off the area and raided two nearby houses, shooting at everyone inside," said Rsayef, who did not witness the events but whose 15-year-old niece says she did. "It was a massacre in every sense of the word."

Rsayef and another resident, former city councilman Imad Jawad Hamza, who spoke with hospital officials and residents, said the first house to be stormed was that of Abdul-Hamid Hassan Ali, which was near the scene of the bombing.

Ali, 76, whose left leg was amputated years ago because of diabetes, died after being shot in the stomach and chest. His wife, Khamisa, 66, was shot in the back. Ali's son, Jahid, 43, was hit in the head and chest. Son Walid, 37, was burned to death after a grenade was thrown into his room, and a third son, 28-year-old Rashid, died after he was shot in the head and chest, Rsayef and Hamza said.

Also among the dead were son Walid's wife, Asma, 32, who was shot in the head, and their son Abdullah, 4, who was shot in the chest, Rsayef and Hamza said.

Walid's 8-year-old daughter, Iman, and his 6-year-old son, Abdul-Rahman, were wounded and U.S. troops took them to Baghdad for treatment. The only person who escaped unharmed was Walid's 5-month-old daughter, Asia. The three children now live with their maternal grandparents, Rsayef and Hamza said.

Rsayef said those killed in the second house were his brother Younis, 43, who was shot in the stomach and chest, the brother's wife Aida, 40, who was shot in the neck and chest while still in bed where she was recuperating from bladder surgery. Their 8-year-old son Mohammed bled to death after being shot in the right arm, Rsayef said.

Also killed were Younis's daughters, Nour, 14, who was shot in the head; Seba, 10, who was hit in the chest; Zeinab, 5, shot in the chest and stomach; and Aisha, 3, who was shot in the chest. Hoda Yassin, a visiting relative, was also killed, Rsayef and Hamza said.

The only survivor from Younis's family was his 15-year-old daughter Safa, who pretended she was dead. She is living with her grandparents, Rsayef said.

The troops then shot and killed four brothers who were walking in the street, Rsayef and Hamza said, identifying them as the sons of Ayed Ahmed — Marwan, Qahtan, Jamal and Chaseb.

U.S. troops also shot dead five men who were in a car near the scene, Hamza and Rsayef said. They identified the five as Khaled Ayad al-Zawi and his brother Wajdi as well as Mohammed Battal Mahmoud, Akram Hamid Flayeh and Ahmad Fanni Mosleh.

It was not clear if the nine men were involved in the attack as the military statement said.

According to the Defense Department, the Marine who was killed near Haditha that day was Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, Texas. He was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force.

Dr. Walid al-Hadithi, chief physician at Haditha General Hospital, said that about midnight the day of the attack, two U.S. Humvees arrived at the hospital — one carrying the bodies of men and the other those of women and children.

"They (the Marines) told me the women and children were shot in their homes, and they added that the men were saboteurs," al-Hadithi said. He said he was given a total of 24 bodies. "All had bullet wounds."

Time magazine said its investigation showed that walls and ceilings in both houses were pockmarked with shrapnel and bullet holes as well as sprays of blood. The video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses — holes that might support the military report of a gunbattle.

The military, after being shown the videotape in January, concluded civilians were killed by Marines, Time said, victims of "collateral damage."

A human rights group condemned the shooting of civilians in Haditha.

"Regrettably the American military goes too far in their strikes against civilians because they consider many civilian areas as targets," said Wail al-Tai of the Baghdad Center for Human Rights Studies.

Human Rights Minister Nirmeen Othman would not comment on the incident.

U.S. military spokeswoman Lt. Col. Michelle Martin-Hing issued a statement Monday in response to an e-mail query from the AP:

"We take these allegations very seriously, and I believe the fact that two additional investigations are ongoing concerning this incident clearly demonstrates that. The incident in question was the first in a series of engagements that day that began when the Marine patrol was ambushed in a residential neighborhood with an IED followed immediately by small arms fire from multiple directions."

Saying Marines tracked insurgents for more than five hours, Martin-Hing said "the investigation will examine whether any rules of engagement were violated in the Marines' response to the insurgent attack. We are committed to thoroughly investigating this incident."

Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the No. 2 U.S. commander in Iraq, said about 12 Marines were under investigation for possible war crimes in the incident. He said the case was referred to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service; it was unclear which other ongoing investigation Martin-Hing was referring to in her statement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060321...wgF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

Now this shows what some in the American military really do over in iraq.

And trying to say its just a few wackos doesn't appear to cut it since more civilians were killed in just the last operations including a child. I think caracel kid was right.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Yep, your right...were just there to shoot kids.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Since that is what they did, yes, don't try to blame it on someone else. That was the act they committed and they should get the worst punishment imaginable.

However, they will probably get 6 months and a reduction in pay.

F*ing stupid.

And if I saw someone either friendly or enemy (American, Canadian, or other) preparing to kill an innocent human being in cold-blood I wouldn't have no qualms about reporting him and at the very worst shooting him or her.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Then if all this good stuff going on.

Why in last November did 12 American soldiers at least kill 15 innocent people. And American or Iraqi security forces killed at least another 8 to 11 in this latest operation.

Have i said some American forces aren't doing something good for Iraqi people. No! However, if you allow 12 men to go kill 15 innocent people because a buddy of theirs was killed then you are letting walk around in their own cess pool of anger.

They should have been put somewhere, talked to a chaplain or something, gone on leave. But no, and now 15 people are dead.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Listen to what is being said by an Army Major who is in
Iraq Good news doesn't sell.

The stuff you don't hear about? Let's start with Electrical Power production
in Iraq. The day after the war was declared over, there was nearly 0 power being generated in Iraq. 45 days later, in a partnership between the
Army,
the Iraqi people and some private companies, there are now 3200 mega
watts (Mw) of power being produced daily, 1/3 of the total national
potential
of 8000 Mw. Downed power lines (big stuff, 400 Kilovolt (Kv) and 132 Kv)
are being repaired and are about 70% complete.

Then there is water purification. In central Iraq between Baghdad and
Mosul, home of the 4th Infantry Division, Water treatment was spotty at
best.
The facilities existed, but the controls were never implemented. Simple
chemicals like Chlorine for purification and Alum (Aluminum Sulfate) for
sediment settling (The Tigris River is about as clear as the Mississippi
River)
were in short supply or not used at all and when chlorine was used, it
was
metered by the scientific method of guessing. So some people got pool
water and some people got water with lots of little things moving in it.
We are slowly but surely solving that. Contracts for repairs to
facilities that
are only 50% or less operational are being let, chemicals are being
delivered, although we don't have the metering problem solved yet (It's
only
been 45 days).

How about oil and fuel? Well the war was all about oil wasn't it? You
bet it
was. It was all about oil for the Iraqi people because they have no
other
income, they produce nothing else. Oil is 95% of the Iraqi GNP. For this
nation to survive, it MUST sell oil. The Refinery at Bayji is at
75% of capacity producing gasoline. The crude pipeline between Kirkuk
(Oil Central) and Bayji will be repaired by tomorrow (2 June). LPG, what
all
Iraqi's use to cook and heat with, is at 103% of normal production and
WE,
the US ARMY, at least 4th ID, are insuring it is being distributed
FAIRLY to
ALL Iraqi's.

You have to remember that 3 months ago, ALL these things were used as
weapons against the population to keep them in line. If your town
misbehaved, gasoline shipments stopped, LPG pipelines and trucks
stopped, Water was turned off, power was turned off.

Now, until exports start, every drop of gasoline produced goes to the
Iraqi
people, crude oil is being stored, the country is at 75% capacity now,
they
need to export or stop pumping soon, thank the UN for the delay. ALL LPG
goes to the Iraqi people EVERYWHERE. Water is being purified as best
they can, but at least it's running all the time to everyone.

Are we still getting shot at? Yep Are American Soldiers still dying?
Yep,
about 1 a day from the 4th ID, most in accidents, but dead is dead.

If we are doing all this for the Iraqi's, why are they shooting at us?

The general population isn't. There are still bad guys, who won't let go
of
the old regime. They are Ba'ath party members (Read Nazi Party, but not
as nice) who know nothing but the regime. They were thugs for the regime
that caused many to disappear in the night and they have no other
skills. At
least the Nazis had jobs they could go back to after the war as
plumbers,
managers, engineers, etc...these people have no skills but terror. They
are
simply applying their skills....and we are applying ours.
There is no Christian way to say they must be eliminated and we are
doing
so with all the efficiency we can muster. Our troops are shot at
literally
everyday by small arms and RPGs. We respond and 100% of the time, the
Ba'ath party guys come out with the short end of the stick. The most
amazing thing to me is that they don't realize that if they stopped
shooting
at us, we would focus on fixing things and leave. The more they shoot at
us, the longer we will stay.

Lastly, Realize that 90% the damage you see on TV was caused by
IRAQI's, NOT the war. Sure we took out a few bridges from military
necessity, we took out a few power and phone lines to disrupt
communications, sure we drilled a few palaces and government
headquarters buildings with 2000lb laser guided bombs (I work 100 yards
from where two hit the Tikrit Palace), he had plenty to spare. But, ANY
damage you see to schools, hospitals, power generation facilities,
refineries, pipelines, was ALL caused either by the Iraqi Army in its
death
throws or the Iraqi civilians looting the places. Could the army have
prevented it? Nope. We can and do now, but 45 days ago the average
soldier was lucky to know what town he was in much less be informed
enough to know who owned what or have the power to stop a
1,000 people from looting a building by himself.

The United States and Britian are doing a very noble thing here. We
stuck
our necks out on the world chopping block to free a people. I've already
talked the weapons of mass destruction thing to death, bottom line, who
cares, this country was one big conventional weapons ammo dump
anyway.
We have probably destroyed more weapons and ammo in the last 30 days
than the US Army has ever fired in the last 30 years (Remember, this is
a
country the size of Texas), so drop the WMD argument as the reason we
came here, if we find it GREAT, if we don't, SO WHAT? I'm living in a
"guest palace" on a
500 acre palace compound with 20 palaces with like facilities built in
half a
dozen towns all over Iraq that were built for one man. Drive down the
street
and out into the countryside 5 miles away (I have) and see a family of
10 living in a mud hut herding two dozen sheep, Then tell me why you
think
we are here.

Respectfully, ERIC RYDBOM MAJ, ENGINEER Deputy Division Engineer
4th Infantry Division
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Energy:

Still blackouts all the time especially in the summer months in Baghdad alone.

Haliburtion came in to drill the oil and cut off any other help with regards to oil. Surprising Cheney controlled Haliburtion.

9 billion dollars is missing because of contrators alone and more money because of the U.S administration in charge of Iraq.

Still didn't answer about what happens to soldiers who lose friends which has resulted in two massacres that we know about, we still are unsure about Falljuah where WMD was used.

And I have done two articles where Iraqi's aren't trusting the Americans.

But there are some improvements.