Torture in Iraq worse than under Saddam

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Independent Palestine
SYDNEY, Australia - Human rights abuses in Iraq are as bad now as they were under Saddam Hussein, as lawlessness and sectarian violence sweep the country, the former U.N. human rights chief in Iraq said Thursday.

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John Pace, who last month left his post as director of the human rights office at the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq, said the level of extra-judicial executions and torture is soaring, and morgue workers are being threatened by both government-backed militia and insurgents not to properly investigate deaths.

"Under Saddam, if you agreed to forgo your basic right to freedom of expression and thought, you were physically more or less OK," Pace said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But now, no. Here, you have a primitive, chaotic situation where anybody can do anything they want to anyone."

Pace, who was born in Malta but now resides in Australia, said that while the scale of atrocity under Saddam was "daunting," now nobody is safe from abuse.

"It is certainly as bad," he said. "It extends over a much wider section of the population than it did under Saddam."

Pace, currently a visiting fellow at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, spoke as sectarian tensions in Iraq push the country to the brink of civil war.

There has been a surge in religious violence in Iraq since the Feb. 22 bombing of a Shiite shrine in the mainly Sunni city of Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, and a spate of reprisal attacks against Sunnis.

The situation has been made worse by extremist Shiite militia operating within the ranks of the Interior Ministry, said Pace, who singled out the Badr Brigade, which makes up a large chunk of the Iraqi security services and military.

He said militia and insurgents are responsible for threatening morgue staff in Baghdad not to perform autopsies on bodies of apparent victims of torture and killings.

"They are told it is not necessary, and not in their interests," he said, adding that both militia and insurgents were "trying to minimize any chances" that their activities could be investigated and prosecuted.

Pace, who spent much of his two years in the post in Iraq, said he visited the morgue in Baghdad once a week when he was in the city and regarded it as a "barometer" of the level of violence in the country. He declined to provide more specific details about the threats, citing fears for the safety of morgue workers.

He said that around three-quarters of the several hundred bodies brought to the morgue each month were categorized with "gunshot wound" as the cause of death — a phrase Pace says is a euphemism. "Nearly all were executed and tortured," he added.

Iraq's interior minister, Bayan Jabr, is a member of Iraq's biggest Shiite party, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, or SCIRI, which ran the Badr Brigade. Badr claims it is no longer an armed militia.

But former Badr commanders hold key posts in Interior Ministry commando units, which are regarded by Sunnis as nothing more than death squads. In November, the U.S. Army raided an Interior Ministry bunker in Baghdad and found 158 tortured and starved Sunni prisoners.

"They have caused havoc," said Pace, referring to the Badr Brigade. "They do basically as they please. They arrest people, they torture people, they execute people, they detain people, they negotiate ransom and they do that with impunity."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302...QJvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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California
Morning Jersay

Got any cheerful posts in your editorial basket for us? You are on a gloomy road today eh? :wink:

You quote in your article here...
Under Saddam, if you agreed to forgo your basic right to freedom of expression and thought, you were physically more or less OK," Pace said in an interview with The Associated Press.

I guess that doesn't explain all the mass graves uncovered - were those visiting dignitaries and not Iraqi citizens? And what does Pace think is more or less OK..... more than twenty-four hours to beheading or torture?

AP just love those ambiguous quotes - inflammatory as hell.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Jersay

You are not responsible for all the problems your friends have had... I cannot imagine you NOT ever being a good friend but we are limited as to what we can do for others.

I hope the weight lifts for you today and you can feel the sun shining again on your face....with your beautiful outlook for your fellow man.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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Independent Palestine
Thanks Child.

Now back to the torture, it does prove a point.

Torture under Hussein, bad.

Today, Torture if it is kept a secret good. Because I am sure if the Americans or Iraqil forces really wanted to they could track down and stop the killings and torture of people by security forces.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Jersay

This is off-topic but I thought you just joined the military. Don't you have training and hours of drill and classes. I know I did, lo these many years ago. Have the forces changed that much?
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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www.contactcorp.net
Because I am sure if the Americans or Iraqil forces really wanted to they could track down and stop the killings and torture of people by security forces.
------------------------Jersay-------------------------

Remember our role here?
We're movie critics. Not movie producers.
And so being the idea rats that we are, we can't
possibly appreciate how hard the job is, and so if you
are so sure security forces can track these matters
down, then may I remind you that the critics always
finds the job of others easy ??

It's a tall order right now for the Shia to stop their
own militias especially under this recent emotional
rampage that scared the bejeeezus out of all of the
Iraqi leaders who quarrelled for advantage but once
they stared into this recent abyss, they got scared
straight, and are pulling back the quarreling.

Thank god, thank Allah, the shadow of al Sistani holds
great sway over the Shia and he even has respect of
many Sunni.

Each time they come this close to the abyss they all
start pulling back from the nightmare of an all-out
civil war.

This painful birth of a new nation is very parallel
to the fighting and breakup of Yugoslavia:

1. Both countries designed by WWI Versaille Peace
Treaty.

2. Both countries with disparate ethnic and religious
groups.

3. Both formerly run by a StrongMan who was the
glue that made the West not worry what festered
beneath for decades, which disgustingly led many in
the West to sophomorically conclude the strong man days
were better.


I forsee Iraq having a greater chance to stay united
under a federal system that leaves a semi-autonomy
for the northern area Kurds, who much deserve a
nation of their own.

But some personal scores are still being settled, because
these people remember what each other did to them.

And the only thing holding most of them back
is a good look at the abyss.

And the irony of all ironies is that the Sunni are demanding
more American patrols in their neighborhoods, because
they're finding out the Shia militias can fight with a
vengeance.

And the final irony is that all sides know that Zarqawi's
foreign fighters and loose amalgam of al Qaeda finds it in
their own best interest to lead this country to hell in
a handbasket, and what better than to destroy that gold dome
of a shia landmark in a sunni neighborhood where even
the sunni respected that shrine.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Jersay said:
Yeap, went on two weekends, and this weekend coming up, and next week a whole ton of stuff and the week after.

Have you joined the reserve? That would explain it. Our basic training was 15 weeks full time, and then we went to full time classes and training in whatever field was selected.
 

neallo

New Member
Feb 12, 2006
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humanorder.blogspot.com
RE: Torture in Iraq worse

Have you joined the reserve? That would explain it. Our basic training was 15 weeks full time, and then we went to full time classes and training in whatever field was selected.

15 weeks? what proffession did you choose under? i just got hired for infantry, ft. start my training march 13 and it goes into may.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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neallo

I was in the RCAF back in the late fifties-early sixties. Everyone did basic training then. I eventually went into flight training and I ended up flying for three years and a bit in 1 Air Div.