Wasted resources in war on terror

[dumpthemonarchy]

I read in The Globe and Mail newspaper on Saturday Feb 25 that Canada is considering spending millions of dollars for new equipment like heavy lift aircraft. Yet Afghanistan has a terrorist insurgency on the ground and Afghanis lack proper equipment such as vehicles and weapons to fight it effectively. There is no shortage of Afghani recruits willing to fight al-Qaeda and the Taliban, so why doesn't the Cdn gov't, if it is interested in fighting terrorism, adequately supply those Afghanis who are ready and willing to fight terrorism?

Plus, about 60% of Cdns are against having troops in Adghanistan, poll.

Canada could promise $100 million over four or five years to get Afghanis to bear down on their terror problem and it could be solved relatively quickly as a result.

Is the Cdn gov't and military only interested in its own bureaucratic interests or fighting terrorism right now? The Cdn military presence in Afghanistan is feeling somewhat bogus these days.

 

[Colpy]

Yeah, well....

The problem with supplying military equipment to an unstable country is that you surrender control of where it ends up, and it often winds up with the bad guys.

As for our military presence in Afghanistan, the Canadian people need to grow a backbone.

Under our treaty OBLIGATIONS to our allies in North America, an attack on one is considered an attack on all. The attack on the Twin Towers in New York was carried out by forces from Afghanistan. The Taliban refused to co-operate and turn over Osama et al, and was complicit in the attacks. We had no choice but to help, and we are obligated to stay involved until the situation is stabilized.

 

[Lineman]

Well said Colpy
Good day to all, I'm new here and hope to spend most of my time reading with the odd post.
Afghans need our help in establishing a government which will include all that comes with government. Things we take for granted here like health, protection, business, schools and the freedom to complain about them.
Canadians must first impose law and order in their region before they and the NGOs can safely begin rebuilding their basic infrastructure. This can and will only be done with force. The Taliban and Al Qaeda do not sit down and negotiate peacefully. These are people who think nothing of killing children, women, and men to gain and keep power.
The reference to dumping a bunch of military vehicles and firearms on them to take care of their own problems without also training and instilling a pride and ethic in their police and army would simply be repeating what brought them to this point in the first place. dumpthemonarchy please tell me what you think could possibly be our govenrment's bureaucratic interest? If providing security these people and a chance to emerge from years of death and destruction is a bureaucratic interest then I'm all for it!

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Wasted resources in war on terror

Yeah, well....

The problem with supplying military equipment to an unstable country is that you surrender control of where it ends up, and it often winds up with the bad guys.

As for our military presence in Afghanistan, the Canadian people need to grow a backbone.

Under our treaty OBLIGATIONS to our allies in North America, an attack on one is considered an attack on all. The attack on the Twin Towers in New York was carried out by forces from Afghanistan. The Taliban refused to co-operate and turn over Osama et al, and was complicit in the attacks. We had no choice but to help, and we are obligated to stay involved until the situation is stabilized.

What good will a backbone do with no brain attached at the top,
I hear the armchair warrior fully supporting combat he will never be involved in, perhaps we should form a regiment of aged combatants like yourself, you could then applaud from the front lines. :lol:

 

[The Gunslinger]

We need better long distance aircraft, not just for Afghanistan, but for anything that may come up. And I agree, Canadians need to grow a backbone.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Re: RE: Wasted resources in war on terror

Good day to all, I'm new here and hope to spend most of my time reading with the odd post.

Welcome to Canadian Content, Lineman. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

What I see as the bureaucratic interests of our armed forces is that equipment is purchased for the purposes of political pork. The Cdn military needs new helicopters too, plus heavy lift aircraft, now we are in the billions of dollars here. The war on terror is here, there and everywhere, the aircraft can wait as far as I can see. Afghanstan needs help as we speak.

In five years which is what the military figures it has to solve the Afghan problem, the Cdn Northwest Passage is going to need more than part-time auxilleries as global warming continues. It was 6 degrees on Baffin Island yesterday and raining.

I don't say shower money on Afghanis, that's the US in Vietnam and the enemy gets great benefits like corruption. The article in The Globe and Mail said they use pickup trucks and lack bullet proof vests. Afghanistan is the poorest country in the entire world, not even a few well placed millions, but a few hundred thousand dollars well targeted for some good equipment could make a difference in the country. I'm sure it is much cheaper to equip an Afghan than a Cdn/Western soldier. We can't help but think in bureaucratic billions and millions, while in some countries, they live on a buck a day.

For instance, if soldiers in Afghanistan got decent pay, they would not have to extort 10% from merchants at checkpoints-which the G&M discusses. Thus they would get more popular support.

The UN supports the NATO troops in Afghanistan and so do I, but the war on terror cannot be endless for the military industrial complex.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

What I see as the bureaucratic interests of our armed forces is that equipment is purchased for the purposes of political pork. The Cdn military needs new helicopters too, plus heavy lift aircraft, now we are in the billions of dollars here. The war on terror is here, there and everywhere, the aircraft can wait as far as I can see. Afghanstan needs help as we speak.

In five years which is what the military figures it has to solve the Afghan problem, the Cdn Northwest Passage is going to need more than part-time auxilleries as global warming continues. It was 6 degrees on Baffin Island yesterday and raining.

I don't say shower money on Afghanis, that's the US in Vietnam and the enemy gets great benefits like corruption. The article in The Globe and Mail said they use pickup trucks and lack bullet proof vests. Afghanistan is the poorest country in the entire world, not even a few well placed millions, but a few hundred thousand dollars well targeted for some good equipment could make a difference in the country. I'm sure it is much cheaper to equip an Afghan than a Cdn/Western soldier. We can't help but think in bureaucratic billions and millions, while in some countries, they live on a buck a day.

For instance, if soldiers in Afghanistan got decent pay, they would not have to extort 10% from merchants at checkpoints-which the G&M discusses. Thus they would get more popular support.

The UN supports the NATO troops in Afghanistan and so do I, but the war on terror cannot be endless for the military industrial complex.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Wasted resources in war on terror

Yeah, well....

The problem with supplying military equipment to an unstable country is that you surrender control of where it ends up, and it often winds up with the bad guys.

As for our military presence in Afghanistan, the Canadian people need to grow a backbone.

Under our treaty OBLIGATIONS to our allies in North America, an attack on one is considered an attack on all. The attack on the Twin Towers in New York was carried out by forces from Afghanistan. The Taliban refused to co-operate and turn over Osama et al, and was complicit in the attacks. We had no choice but to help, and we are obligated to stay involved until the situation is stabilized.

What good will a backbone do with no brain attached at the top,
I hear the armchair warrior fully supporting combat he will never be involved in, perhaps we should form a regiment of aged combatants like yourself, you could then applaud from the front lines. :lol:

So perhaps, oh silliest of rodents, we should leave the development of foreign policy to the military?

What you propose is we ignore our international obligations. Remember, these operations in Afghanistan are sanctioned by the UN, not that I give a rat's ass what the UN thinks, but you guys over there on the looney left seem to love to grovel at the feet of Kofi Annan.

So what's it gonna be?

Foreign policy by referendum?

Foreign policy as dictated by the UN?

Foreign policy controled by the military?

Or foreign policy developed by the elected representatives of the people?

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Wasted resources in w

And you on the Retarded Religious Redundant Reprehensible Right only use the UN when it suits your purpose. I,am suprised that you resort to The UN as an argument for our involvment. What are we doing there? Are we saving and helping Afgans or are we saving and helping Americans? And don,t tell me that there the same thing.

 

[annabattler]

Let us all remember that peace and democracy are not IMPOSED...they must grow out of a grass roots movement.
From what I can glean,only the area around Kabul is "secure",as secure as security can be in that country.
The other parts of the country are still run by warlords,an ancient system of governance in many parts of the Middle East.
And the Middle East seems to have very porous borders,with insurgents flowing back and forth with ease.
Our presence there(along with other international troops)must be for the very long haul...many,many years. Is that what we want? Is that where a Canadian presence can do the most good?The situation will get worse there before it gets better...are we ready for the body bags?

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Wasted resources in w

And you on the Retarded Religious Redundant Reprehensible Right only use the UN when it suits your purpose. I,am suprised that you resort to The UN as an argument for our involvment. What are we doing there? Are we saving and helping Afgans or are we saving and helping Americans? And don,t tell me that there the same thing.

Hey, as I said, I don't give a rat's ass about the UN. The sooner it disbands the better.

But yeah, I sincerely would like to see Afghanistan stabilized, and the will require (unfortunately) a long-term commitment to rebuilding and aggressive suppression of radical Islamists.

I notice, as with the Islamofascist thread, you have a talent for deconstruction, and few reasonable suggestions for alternative measures. So what should the west do in Afghanistan?

Abandon them?

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Wasted resources in w

colpy,

how about something that taps into the history of the "Retarded Religious Redundant Reprehensible Right"?

all those in favour of being so involved in imposing the western ways on Afganistan can move there and, gasp. colonoze the country. That will buy you a hundred years or so. Are you up for relocating to a drier climate colpy?

 

[Jay]

Why would we do that when we can remote colonize them?

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Wasted resources in w

you can't remote colonize. somebody has to go there.

if you believe in this colonization so much, then we must have another volunteer to move to a drier climate.

so perhaps colpy and jay will both be contacting the canadian government asking for relocation?

 

[Jay]

People accuse us of it all the time....talk to them about it.


I have no interest in going there to live, but I have interest in bringing down their government and setting up something a little more palatable.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Wasted resources in w

I will contribute to arming Colpy and Jay to the teeth, and to relocating them to the war zone. Lets start a fund.

send money to
The Colpy & Jay Expiditionary Fund
DarkBeaver
RR1 Canada

 

[Jay]

Oh so you are going to arm us instead of our enemies....that's a switch.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Wasted resources in w

colpy,

how about something that taps into the history of the "Retarded Religious Redundant Reprehensible Right"?

all those in favour of being so involved in imposing the western ways on Afganistan can move there and, gasp. colonoze the country. That will buy you a hundred years or so. Are you up for relocating to a drier climate colpy?

You only wish!! Do they have broad band in Afghanistan?

Perhaps if the gov't wanted to include some nubile blondes with which to improve the density of our colony.....but I don't think the wife would like that........nor would said blondes, unless they have a fetish for fat, old guys.

Sigh Not many do.


Oh yeah, Beaver....no need, I'm already armed to the teeth.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Wasted resources in war on terror

Oh so you are going to arm us instead of our enemies....that's a switch.

Our enemys aren,t the same people Jay. I don,t recall being attacked by the Taliban or Afghanistan. My problem with Canadian involvment in Afghanistan is that the mission is not well defined and doe,s not seem to have any end in sight but dead Canadians, our twenty-two hundred against a potential adversary that numbers in the hundreds of thousands that have the home advantage is a recipe for disaster. When the body-bags start coming home Jay will you write the letters explaining to the loved ones just exactly what the sacrifice was for, and they won,t belive any shit about freedom and democracy.