Cartoon anger is a misrepresentation

I think not

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Western embassies in Middle Eastern cities have been torched. Angry crowds have marched in the streets of London carrying placards calling for beheadings and massacres.

Yet despite how it looks on television news, the response to the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad has mostly been non-violent so far.

There were no demonstrations at all in a sizeable number of Muslim countries. In Iran, Egypt, Pakistan and Iraq, the demonstrations passed off quietly.

There has been serious trouble in Gaza, Damascus and Beirut, but in each case, local tensions clearly boiled up and found their expression in this particular issue.

In Syria, such violence is so rare that some people have wondered whether the attacks on the Danish and Norwegian embassies might not have been provoked by government agents, in order to discredit the beleaguered Islamists there.

In Lebanon, the continuing tension between supporters of the Syrians and supporters of the Americans played a part in the violence in Beirut.

When a breakaway group started to attack a Christian church at Ashrafiya, a group of Muslim clerics did everything they could to stop them.

Delayed reaction

How did a series of not particularly well-drawn or funny cartoons, published on 30 September in a Danish newspaper, produce such anger in Europe and the Middle East four months later?

If anyone fanned the flames, it was not Osama bin Laden.

Instead, it was the mild, distinctly moderate figure of Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the foreign minister of Egypt.

As early as November, he was protesting about the cartoons, and calling them an insult.

"Egypt," he said, "has confronted this disgraceful act and will continue to confront such insults."

Perhaps it was a convenient way for the Egyptian government to demonstrate some Islamic credentials while not attacking any of the countries which really matter to Egypt.

He raised the issue at various international meetings. Slowly the news filtered out to the streets.

Past reminders

There are various similarities with the case of Salman Rushdie's book The Satanic Verses.

That also took months to come to general attention in 1989.

It was only when Ayatollah Khomeini was told about the way the book dealt with the Prophet Muhammad that he issued his condemnation of it and his threat to Salman Rushdie's life.

The demonstrations became increasingly violent.

Much the same arguments were used then as now, about where freedom of speech ends and gratuitous insults begin.

Militant secularists clashed on air and in print with militant Islamists, each talking past each other.

At one point Salman Rushdie recanted and asked for forgiveness. At least one of the book's translators seems to have been murdered.

But The Satanic Verses continued to make good money, and the British government asked Mr Rushdie to pay part of the high cost of his own protection.

Eventually the threat faded, and he went to live in America.

Double standards

In 1989, when the Satanic Verses demonstrations were at their height, I was making my way across Afghanistan to Kabul, which was still in the hands of the pro-Soviet Communists.

My guides came from a group of Islamic mujahideen.

In a cave in the mountains outside the city, I was invited to meet a number of local elders who wanted to know why Britain, or any other Western country, would allow a book which seemed to be so insulting to Islam to be published.

In the chilly gloom of the cave, with a glass of tea and a plate of sugared mulberries in front of me, the magnificent old men with their turbans and beards filed in and sat down on the carpets, their AK-47s beside them.

I began with the quote - attributed to Voltaire - about hating what other people say but fighting to the death for their right to say it.

I told them that the West wanted people to be free to express themselves as they wanted - this, I said, was why Europe and the US had supported the Afghan mujahideen against the Soviet invaders.

They nodded politely, but I could see they were not convinced.

Why, one of the elders asked again and again, did we allow the Prophet Muhammad to be insulted when we knew how much distress it would cause individual Muslims?

He had a point; after all, we would not allow a deeply anti-Semitic book to be published, and we have made it a criminal offence to deny the Holocaust.

Why should it not also be illegal to insult the Prophet?

Yet insulting and openly anti-Semitic cartoons and articles often appear in the press in Muslim countries, and we in the West rightly find that deeply offensive.

And when extremists march through the streets, applaud bloodthirsty crimes like the attacks of 11 September and 7 July, that is no less insulting than publishing unfunny and deliberately goading cartoons.

We must not imagine this has the support of the great mass of British Muslims.

Quite the contrary: the groups with their ill-spelt placards are just an unrepresentative, repudiated fringe.

In much the same way, we should not think the entire Muslim world is in flames about it.

But we must understand that many Muslims around the world feel increasingly beleaguered.

Increasing that sense will do nothing to help anyone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4685886.stm
 

TenPenny

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It boggles my mind that, in the name of "free speech", a bunch of lunatic papers deliberately print cartoons that are designed to, and they know will, insult and inflame a large number of people.

People take religion seriously, and the papers that printed this crap should have known the result.

What do you think would happen if they printed cartoons showing Jews being herded into ovens, and made light of it? Of course, there would be outrage.

Free speech is a wonderful thing, but deliberately insulting people and fanning the flames of indignation is a stupid thing.
 

sanch

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The cartons reflect Islam as it is being presented today. Moderates are starting to reclaim the imagery but until recently they have made little effort to try and provide any kind of balance.

And anti-western and anti-Jewish images and messages are very common in the Middle East. I suppose people cheering innocent westerners being beheaded on television in the name of Islam is normal behaviour. Yet a cartoon pointing out how Islam has been given a evil public face is the work of a lunatic.
 

Jay

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I think I'm just going to follow their lead....every time I see something that offends my Christian sensibilities; I kill a kitten....
 

I think not

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Re: RE: Cartoon anger is a misrepresentation

TenPenny said:
What do you think would happen if they printed cartoons showing Jews being herded into ovens, and made light of it? Of course, there would be outrage.

You mean like this:

Holocaust cartoons by Germans worry Jews

And this:

About the Holocaust, this big figure they mention, nine million, six million, it's not true," says Mohammed, the correspondent of an international news agency in Cairo

Or maybe this:

'Cartoonists Against the Holocaust': Unusual Exhibit to Debut In New York City
 

Blackleaf

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It boggles my mind that, in the name of "free speech", a bunch of lunatic papers deliberately print cartoons that are designed to, and they know will, insult and inflame a large number of people
I agree, and so did the British press. Britain was one of the European nations that did NOT show the cartoons.

It's good to have free speech, but free speech needs LIMITS. We have free speech, but should we allow people to have child pornography on their computers? Should we show the bodies of dead British soldiers without consulting the families first? So we shouldn't be insulting other religions just to make them angry.

We have free speech, but that doesn't mean we can print everything in newspapers. Unfortunately, Continental Europeans don't seem to agree.
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Cartoon anger is a misrepresentation

Blackleaf said:
It boggles my mind that, in the name of "free speech", a bunch of lunatic papers deliberately print cartoons that are designed to, and they know will, insult and inflame a large number of people
I agree, and so did the British press. Britain was one of the European nations that did NOT show the cartoons.

It's good to have free speech, but free speech needs LIMITS. We have free speech, but should we allow people to have child pornography on their computers? Should we show the bodies of dead British soldiers without consulting the families first? So we shouldn't be insulting other religions just to make them angry.

We have free speech, but that doesn't mean we can print everything in newspapers. Unfortunately, Continental Europeans don't seem to agree.

What boggles my mind is how the west has developed a spine of jelly.

Personally, I think the newspaper chains should confer, pick a day, and every paper in the free world print the cartoons on their front page.

Not that it will happen, more is the shame.
 

Blackleaf

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You do what you like, but newspapers in Britain shouldn't. If you want to bring yourself down to the level of Iranian newspapers saying that the Holocaust is a myth then that's fine by me.

Britain and America are fighting a War on terror, aren't they? What good is fighting a War on Terror when newspaper fuck everything up by CAUSING Muslim anget towards the West when Britain and America are trying to stop it? Both the British and American governments condemned the Danish newspaper, so we don't want anyone else to copy it.

In my view, it's just childish and pathetic.
 

Blackleaf

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We're trying to STOP Muslim anger towards the West.

Thanks to the idotic Danes, on Saturday afternoon we had Muslim men rioting in London with bombs strapped to themselves. If they exploded we would have known who to blame, wouldn't we?
 

I think not

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We're not going to STOP anything by being dictated what we can and cannot say. They could of easily protested in the streets in a peaceful way and would of had more western support for it, just like they did in London.

I would really like to know what the f*ck the police (in the Arab world) are doing that have done nothing to prevent this in addition to never hearing anything about arrests. Shouldn't these people be arrested and brought up on charges for the damage done? WTF!
 

Jay

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It doesn't take much to piss these people off. I wouldn't worry about it. There going to go ballistic regardless, and I hope this is a wake up call for some.
 

Jersay

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For the violence and the five deaths on top of this. It is the fault of the newspapers no one elses.

We are suppose to be at a war on terrorism, not a war against Muslims. Since they have as many or even more than Christians, if papers want to mae it a war against Islam I am pretty sure the Muslims people will be prepared to fight.

Free Speech has gone to far in this case. This is what the Germans did against the Jews before they sent them to the Holocaust, they started degrading them with cartoons and talking about them. I wouldn't be surprised in the next few years to see that occur in America or Europe or even Canada against the Muslims.
 

I think not

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Ridiculing Christianity in the name of art and free speech has been going on for decades in America, Canada and Europe, see any holocausts going on?
 

Jersay

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Ridiculing Christianity in the name of art and free speech has been going on for decades in America, Canada and Europe, see any holocausts going on?

Was it Jesus himself?

And that is what was used against the Jews. That is what made it so easy to exterminate them, the imprinting of something of that cultureor people tha is negative on another person.
 

I think not

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Jersay said:
Ridiculing Christianity in the name of art and free speech has been going on for decades in America, Canada and Europe, see any holocausts going on?

Was it Jesus himself?

And that is what was used against the Jews. That is what made it so easy to exterminate them, the imprinting of something of that cultureor people tha is negative on another person.

Jesus has been shown repeatedly being sodomized Jersay.
 

I think not

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Jersay said:
Jesus has been shown repeatedly being sodomized Jersay.

There had to be some kind of protest to that. Maybe some evangical guys or something, they would have made some kind of written or street protest somewhere to that.

There is a difference between protesting peacefully and burning embassies and calling for the beheading of the cartoonists. Nobody said they shouldn't protest.
 

Jersay

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There is a difference between protesting peacefully and burning embassies and calling for the beheading of the cartoonists. Nobody said they shouldn't protest.

There have been peaceful protests. Now it is not only the cartoons but other issues that have seemed to spark this incident.

Now, back in September there was not a big fuss when these cartoons were published.

It was only a bi fuss when these right-wing newspapers that published these cartoons again was there violence.