It's easy to forget

pastafarian

Electoral Member
Oct 25, 2005
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in the belly of the mouse
Isn't it easy to forget:

Saddam bought those weapons with US loan guarantees?


Targeted those Kurds with US sattelite recon?

Was given freedom to buy from French and British suppliers after Reagan removed Iraq from the list of countries sUpporting terrorism?

Bought support material from the US as "dual-use" items?

Isn't it easy to forget that that "regime change" was the third rationale Bushites gave for their invasion.

The first was non-existent WMD and the myth that Saddam had expelled UN weapons inspectors.

Next was that saddam was involved in 9/11, or at least has ties to Al-Qaeda.

Only when that was shown to be false did the old Cold War standby of "liberating the people", "paving the way for democracy" suddenly become the rationale for attacking Iraq.

So, thanks America and England for helping Saddam to massacre thousands; thanks for the sanctions that hurt Saddam not a bit, but killed over 500,000 innocent Iraqis, mostly children. Good to know lots of your countrymen got rich in the oil-for-food scandals.

Thanks for making Iraq the no1 terrorist recruiting centre in the world, thanks for the DU poisoning tens of thousands, thanks for selling of oil rights, water rights to multinational corporations and allowing Halliburton and other pals to get rich supplying substandard food and equipment to your poor soldiers who have become in the eyes of the world, that which they risk their lives to fight, thanks to Fallujah and Abu Grahib.

Thanks Bush and Blair. The world won't forget.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
It ain't easy to forget.

But you're more stuck on that than you have
fervor for supporting all you can to give that country
a new chance, and in that you commit the same
sin of moral hypocrisy.

At least the Swedes are investing in interesting
things over there and have the guts to do so and
they've fairly gotten over what keeps you stuck,
what keeps you from keeping an eye on the most
valuable matter of all: giving that country a new
chance and no longer sympathizing with the violence
that seeks to ruin it.

Absolutely America is full of hypocrisy on this matter.
 

pastafarian

Electoral Member
Oct 25, 2005
541
0
16
in the belly of the mouse
jimmoyer, there's a saying in Shakespeare. "It's an ill wind that blows no man to good".

There's no doubt that Saddam was a cancer.

It may be that in the long run, this Iraq war will have been a first step to a prosperous iraq which is free of fear, despite the true reasons for it.
I confess that by admitting the US hypocrisy, you've taken a lot of the wind out of my sails.
:p
Because it's the self-righteousness that makes me sick. You are right that it does the Iraqi people little good to revisit the self-serving evil that led to the invasion. Problem is, what to do now? Could we get an international group to hold the reconstruction money in escrow until a stable government is in place? How can the dialy terror attackes be stopped? Surely a US pullout would help, but there are probably too many terror groups no longer so concerned with liberating Iraq from US occupation than there were a year ago, because every psycohpathic jihadist is probably recruitng and training there.

UN peacekeeping missions have been notably bad at dealing with terrorism and civil war, especially because the US will hamper them at every step.

Iran next door doesn't make things any safer, especially with Israel saber-rattling. The US should be tried, found guilty of WAr Crimes and forced to pay reparations, but even if this dream-scensrio coul take placve, who could be trusted to administer the funds? Are there any broadly nationalist groups in Iraq? I doubt it.

Do you see any reason for optimism Jimmoyer? I find it hard, myself.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Actually Pastafarian, you posted a WONDERFUL
and honest response.

And now reason for optimism ?

First I'll tell you what you know. We are the
microwave food generation. We want it NOW !!
We willingly watch Sci Fi that predicts we can get
it now, like that Beam tractor to take us from
one point to another in a blink of a Star Trek's eye.

Secondly I'll tell you what you know of history.
All those times when leaders or soldiers or movements
had no guarantee their desire will win and at
every turn another loss occurs. And yet, their will
did win.

Thirdly, I will tell you what you know of the media.
Forget just for a moment the conservative and liberal
biases. Just know that it's the BAD NEWS that
wins the front page, that nails the headlines. And it's
the backpages where you see the articles detail
often contravailing facts. Also there are two
media echo chambers ruling the Zeitgeist, the numbing
mono-mindthink repetitive mantras who have a
willing audience.

Look up MOAG. Read that story. It's called the
Mother of All Generators. Google Dilja.
Examine the subtleties of al Jazeera defying
Middle East autocratic rule over women's rights.
Google Baghdad TV. Understand what THEY are
watching. It isn't what WE are watching. It isn't
what WE are listening to.

Nothing big happens easily.

The critics are the worst prognosticators.
So are the polly anna people.

It's there.
It's in between.