Yes vote passes in Iraqui

[Durgan]

This is what the Western nations are reading.

NYTimes, by Edward Wong

Original Article

Posted By:IowaDad, 10/25/2005 7:13:05 AM

BAGHDAD, Iraq, - Iraqi electoral officials announced today that a new constitution had been approved by voters, enshrining a legal foundation for the future governance of the country and paving the way for elections for a full-term government in December.



This is what the Moslem nations are reading.

Quote
Shoving the draft charter down the throats of the Iraqis
10/25/2005 4:15:00 PM GMT

By: Hamdee Attallah

The U.S. administration has managed to shove the rejected draft charter down the throats of the Iraqi people. The administration’s illegal tactics have been aided by the deliberate failure of the U.S media to investigate Iraq’s recent fraudulent elections. The evidence that this referendum was most certain to be rejected by the Iraqi people is abundant, but the United Nations and the media have chosen to ignore it. Unquote

URL to full story.
http://gasmiage.notlong.com

Durgan.

 

[american]

you know what there is no usse for iraq to even vote it is just nonsense. I mean come on they bomed us and now they want peace while guess what i don't think so.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Yes vote passes in Ir

Iraq never bombed you.

 

[#juan]

I wonder Rev

Does literacy, or the ability to compose an intelligible sentence have any relationship with the intelligence of the writer?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Yes vote passes in Ir

I don't know if it's a lack of intelligence or a lack of education. Either way, when the spelling and grammer aren't there the critical thinking tends to go out the window too.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I think you mean "grammar" Rev...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Yes vote passes in Ir

I do. Want me to claim that I was thinking of Kelsey Grammer as a way to cover up? ;-)

 

[Ocean Breeze]

This is what the Western nations are reading.

NYTimes, by Edward Wong

Original Article

Posted By:IowaDad, 10/25/2005 7:13:05 AM

BAGHDAD, Iraq, - Iraqi electoral officials announced today that a new constitution had been approved by voters, enshrining a legal foundation for the future governance of the country and paving the way for elections for a full-term government in December.



This is what the Moslem nations are reading.

Quote
Shoving the draft charter down the throats of the Iraqis
10/25/2005 4:15:00 PM GMT

By: Hamdee Attallah

The U.S. administration has managed to shove the rejected draft charter down the throats of the Iraqi people. The administration’s illegal tactics have been aided by the deliberate failure of the U.S media to investigate Iraq’s recent fraudulent elections. The evidence that this referendum was most certain to be rejected by the Iraqi people is abundant, but the United Nations and the media have chosen to ignore it. Unquote

URL to full story.
http://gasmiage.notlong.com

Durgan.

would go with the latter. (shoving it down their throats... :evil:

 

[jimmoyer]

Interesting.
We outsiders think we know what we're reading ?

Consider al Sistani and what he is telling his Shiites.
What you read is from a Sunni, a split greater than the Catholic Church when Martin Luther came along.

You say Muslim.

Well just like the Americans thought communism was a monolith, so is the same mistake made of Muslims.

Check out your so-called Muslim guy.

He's Sunni, which rules the majority of muslim countries, whereas Iraq and Iran have majority Shi-ites.

That was not shia, but Sunni talking at you.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

And what of the Shia? Let us "consider" why Sistani told his followers it was their religious duty to vote in favour of the charter. They voted 'yes' because going along with this process means the coalition have one less reason to stay. Their leaders are not democrats, they're radical, pro-Iranian Islamists who violently reject western ideas. They have no reason to reject the charter, as it means they can take over without a fight.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

And what of the Shia? Let us "consider" why Sistani told his followers it was their religious duty to vote in favour of the charter. They voted 'yes' because going along with this process means the coalition have one less reason to stay. Their leaders are not democrats, they're radical, pro-Iranian Islamists who violently reject western ideas. They have no reason to reject the charter, as it means they can take over without a fight.

that is quite politically savvy....

 

[Mad_Hatter]

you know what there is no usse for iraq to even vote it is just nonsense. I mean come on they bomed us and now they want peace while guess what i don't think so.

Did Rev Blair create a gimmick account to make his opposition look particularly ridiculous?? ;-)
jk

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Yes vote passes in Iraqui

you know what there is no usse for iraq to even vote it is just nonsense. I mean come on they bomed us and now they want peace while guess what i don't think so.

Did Rev Blair create a gimmick account to make his opposition look particularly ridiculous?? ;-)
jk

:lol: :lol: :thumbright: :laughing3:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Did Rev Blair create a gimmick account to make his opposition look particularly ridiculous?? Wink

Unfortunately, I don't have to. :?

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

I do. Want me to claim that I was thinking of Kelsey Grammer as a way to cover up? ;-)

Best not, Rev., "I was thinking of Kelsey Grammer" raises more questions than it answers and, therefore, sounds too much like a cover up. I'd be more inclined to say "Sorry ... just a typo".

Otherwise american might call your bluff, and make you look a bit dim ...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Yes vote passes in Ir

Sorry, just a typo.

Although that Kelsey Grammer....;-)

 

[GL Schmitt]

Re: RE: Yes vote passes in Ir

. . . Although that Kelsey Grammer . .

You were warned, Rev.

Now David must Pierce your Hyde.


David Hyde Pierce :sad4:

 

[Reverend Blair]

You bastard. You made me spit beer all over the place. :lol:

 

[jimmoyer]

And what of the Shia? Let us "consider" why Sistani told his followers it was their religious duty to vote in favour of the charter. They voted 'yes' because going along with this process means the coalition have one less reason to stay. Their leaders are not democrats, they're radical, pro-Iranian Islamists who violently reject western ideas. They have no reason to reject the charter, as it means they can take over without a fight.
------------------------------------------Hard Luck Henry--------

No surprise there. Nobody wants occupation.

You're right that Sistani wants the occupation to end only after some democratic milestones are met, such as the first vote of the interim parliament, the constitution and all the issues that brought up.

But that Sunni in the article posted earlier in this thread denigrated many of the things that Sistani is for and so that Sunni has much more negative spin than Sistani's quieter approach to giving Iraq a new start.

The shia do not violently reject democratic ideas. You'll have noted Sistani's admonition to all higher up clerics to not hold public office. It's patronizing of the Euro-western culture to think so, despite your overreactions to their religious ideas. You just saw them work with the Kurds and Sunni to write a constitution that beats out the inane EU trivial constitution. There was much long educational debate and work to protect all their own individual interests without completely falling all out into civil war and without falling into the inanity the Europeans showed in writing their rejected EU constitution.

The forebearance in major revenge killings is amazing that it is not 10 times worse.

But we outsiders little know the restraint that is there or how Sistani counsels his people to differentiate among the sunnis who are baathists, saddamists or terrorists or democrats.

Also although Iraq and Iran both have shia majorities (the only 2 countries in the muslim world to have such) the similarities end there.

You maybe forget that 8 year war between the Iraq and Iran? Just because Saddam is gone doesn't mean the citizens of those 2 countries forget.

Both groups have still very nationalist cultures that divide them, and Sistani is certainly going to have something to say about whatever Iranian influence he allows.

My point was to note when you quote muslims it is important to know the backround of the sunni and shia.

Any why not sign the charter if it means a takeover without a fight? This beaten up majority, this bullied majority has certainly earned it and have shown remarkable restraint that your negative spin on these people cynically and patronizingly ignores.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

Right. And there's nothing remotely patronising about that self-righteous little diatribe, eh jim? :lol:

The Iranians and their allies have considerably more influence than some seem willing to accept; Let's face it, they couldn't wish for two better allies than Bush and blair - they've managed to remove two of its biggest enemies in Saddam and the Taliban, they've put Iranian allies in power in Baghdad and Iranian agents have infiltrated Shia militia all over southern Iraq.

A brief look at Basra and it's environs, where the British are busy - thanks to their political masters - arming and training the very radical Islamic militias they may end up having to fight.

These extremists haven't just infiltrated the Iraqi police in places like Basra, they are the police. Hence the incident a few weekis ago, when two SAS men had to be forcibly rescued from them. These people effectively control Basra, and have acquired key jobs in the civil administration and the police.

When a journalist asked Abbas Abdel Ali, the deputy commander of Basra's police where he acquired recruits he replied, quite openly: "From the Badr and Sadr forces." (The Badr Brigade being the armed wing of the Iranian backed Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution - the Sciri. The Sadr army, led by Moqtada al-Sadr, is even more radical and was engaged in open war with coalition forces last year). On the walls of their police stations and government buildings are posters of Khomeini and Sadr.

When the British tried to root out the extremists, and tried to teach the police to use interrogation techniques that didn't involve torture, they simply went further underground, opening a secret torture centre near a police station. The bodies of former Ba'athists continued to turn up, along with those of Christians involved in the alcohol trade. Some people were prosecuted for this, but not the senior officers who were probably ordering the activities.

Of course, the blame for the bloodbath in Iraq lies overwhelmingly with the coalition, or with foreign, al-Qaeda led terrorists. The religious parties and the Badr Brigade do not want a revolt - they know they have the majority in the region, and will take over without a fight. Given that southern Iraq holds 70% of Iraq's oil wealth, and with 98% of Iraq's income coming from oil exports, they have the trump hand. No wonder they can show restraint.

This isn't just a Euro-westerners view, though - there exist real fears among Iraq's Arab neighbours that the accession of a Shia dominated government in Iraq will upset the regional balance of power. The Saudi foreign minister recently stated Iraq now is effectively run by Iranian agents, who establish militia and police forces as they see fit. He went further to say Iranian influence is most realised in areas of Iraq run and protect by US forces - "areas pacified by the US", as he put it. He also said Iran was channeling millions to its agents in Iraq. He's not alone in his fears.

Thanks to US actions in the region, the balance of power is shifting. Iran's reformists have been swept away by the hardliners, who have recently been calling for the destruction of Israel. And they're busy acquiring a nuclear arsenal. Given how bogged down the US is in Iraq, I doubt very much that they're worried by the US' "hard" threats. Even less by the "soft" threats from the Europeans.

All is not rosy in The Garden of Eden. I did like the positive spin you went for in your post, jim - I'd actually prefer it that way, truly; I just don't see it like that. You should get in touch with The Whitehouse, though - Bush could do with a few more like you around him just now, the help to convince him his great Iraqi misadventure is all going swimmingly well.