Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punishment

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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Too bad Wisconsin doesn't have the death penalty, someone convicted of 6 counts of first degree murder sure as hell deserves it!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9359296/

Here's the article ...

Man who shot hunters found guilty of homicide

Vang convicted of 6 murders in Wisconsin woods in 2004
Chai Soua Vang prays during his murder trial Friday in Hayward, Wis. Vang was convicted on six counts of first-degree murder and two counts of attempted murder in 2004 shootings in isolated Wisconsin woods.

Updated: 7:59 p.m. ET Sept. 16, 2005
HAYWARD, Wis. - A jury on Friday convicted an immigrant truck driver of first-degree murder in the shooting deaths of six deer hunters during a confrontation over trespassing, rejecting his claims that he fired in self-defense after one hunter used racial slurs and another shot at him.

Chai Soua Vang, 36, faces mandatory life in prison. Wisconsin does not have a death penalty.

Jurors deliberated about three hours before convicting Vang on six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and three counts of attempted homicide. In addition to the six dead, two hunters were wounded in the shootings Nov. 21 that began when the group of hunters confronted Vang for being on private land.

Vang, dressed in a business suit with family members seated behind him, showed no visible emotion as the judge read the verdict.

The crime rocked Wisconsin’s north woods in part because four of the victims were shot in the back and all but one were unarmed, according to testimony.

The slayings also occurred during the state’s beloved deer hunting season and exposed racial tension between the predominantly white north woods residents and immigrants from the Hmong ethnic group of Southeast Asia.

Outside court, one of Vang’s friends questioned the all-white jury’s makeup and maintained Vang was innocent.

‘Why can’t there be one Hmong?’
“All Caucasian, all American. Why can’t there be one Hmong? Why can’t there be one minority in there?” Pofwmyeh Yang said. “I believe only one person can judge, and that’s God. But God didn’t judge today.”

Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager said in her closing argument that Vang ambushed some of the victims and chased down one of them. But the defense said the confrontation was all about racial prejudice.

Vang’s attorney, Steven Kohn, told jurors the prosecution cannot prove who fired the first shot. Vang had testified he started firing only after one of the hunters shot at him first.

“In the courtroom, the tie goes to the defendant,” Kohn said.

Lautenschlager reminded jurors Vang testified he felt two of the victims deserved to die because they called him names. “The physical evidence and the witness statements speak for themselves,” she said.

Kohn said Friday the hunters’ anger at Vang was driven by racial prejudice.

“It really is the straw that stirs the drink. It is the catalyst,” he said. He told jurors the trial was not about the Hmong community or Wisconsin’s hunting culture, but about what happened when specific individuals confronted each other in the woods.

Jurors could consider lesser offenses
The judge had given jurors the option of finding Vang guilty on lesser charges of second-degree murder or attempted murder.

Vang testified Thursday that he fired at the group of hunters because he feared for his life. At one point, he pretended to hold a rifle as he told jurors how he gunned down the victims — but he claimed it was only after a shot was fired at him.

Vang, a truck driver from St. Paul, Minn., came to the United States more than 20 years ago from a refugee camp in Thailand.

He said the shootings happened after one of the white hunters used profanities and racial slurs when angrily confronting him for trespassing in a tree stand used to hunt deer last fall.

Two survivors of the shootings testified that only one shot was fired at Vang, and that was after he had already shot the victims.

Cross-examined by Lautenschlager, Vang was asked if each victim deserved to die. Vang answered “no” in some cases and “yes” in others.

He told jurors he was on the rifle team in high school in California and later served in the National Guard, where he was trained to shoot to kill. He also described himself as an experienced hunter.
 

no1important

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RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

Glad to see some states are not barbaric like most.

I think life in prison is more of a punishment than being executed. Hell your going to die eventually so he might as well be punished while he is alive and the longer he lives the more he is punished, and he will die in jail anyways, so why end his punishment sooner?
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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Re: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

The case has been widely discussed here in St Paul because Vang is from this area. Part of the trial was covered on local TV and the jury decision was covered live.

Wisconsin has not had capital punishment for over 150 years so Vang did not get off 'easy' as you say. Moreover, that part of Wisconsin has had a long history of racism (especially towards Native Americans and their tribal fishing rights) and no evidence was presented in court to refute the charges he made that he was racially harassed.

Violence begets violence and there is absolutely no excuse for the terrible thing that Vang did. Let's hope that the Western Wisconsin community will now learn from this and past experiences that prejudice is an evil that leads to tragic consequences and that it must be ended once and for all.
 

Nascar_James

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

no1important said:
Glad to see some states are not barbaric like most.

I think life in prison is more of a punishment than being executed. Hell your going to die eventually so he might as well be punished while he is alive and the longer he lives the more he is punished, and he will die in jail anyways, so why end his punishment sooner?

And use our tax dollars to keep feeding this murderer??? No way!
 

Nascar_James

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Re: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

gopher said:
The case has been widely discussed here in St Paul because Vang is from this area. Part of the trial was covered on local TV and the jury decision was covered live.

Wisconsin has not had capital punishment for over 150 years so Vang did not get off 'easy' as you say. Moreover, that part of Wisconsin has had a long history of racism (especially towards Native Americans and their tribal fishing rights) and no evidence was presented in court to refute the charges he made that he was racially harassed.

Violence begets violence and there is absolutely no excuse for the terrible thing that Vang did. Let's hope that the Western Wisconsin community will now learn from this and past experiences that prejudice is an evil that leads to tragic consequences and that it must be ended once and for all.

hmmm ... Gopher, since you are a lawyer, what would it have taken to transfer this guy to Federal Court? Would it have been possible? What circumstances warrant such a trasfer? He would have been eligible for the death penalty. If 6 counts of 1st degree murder do not warrant the death penalty, I don't know what does.
 

Hard-Luck Henry

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RE: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

Good grief, James, you're a bloodthirsty so-and-so, aren't you?
 

gopher

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Re: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

"what would it have taken to transfer this guy to Federal Court? "


Before a Federal court could take legal cognizance of a case, a defendant must be shown to have violated a Federal statute. For example, had it been shown that he illegally took weapons across a state border in order to commit any illegal acts, a Federal statute could have been applied. The facts show that he carried legal weapons across the border in order to engage in hunting which was legal activity in Heyward, Wisconsin. The area in which this sad event occurred was a State park and only local authorities were involved in his detention.

Federal civil rights statutes were not shown to have been violated though (strangely enough) Vang's family attempted to use this as a defense! They said that he was not tried by a jury of his peers because he was an Asian tried by an all White jury and the area has had a very well noted reputation for its racism. Had I been Vang's lawyer I would have attempted to take the case into Federal court on that basis in another jurisdiction. I don't know why his lawyers allowed him to testify in court as he gave away tons of incriminating evidence - in all honesty, I feel they really screwed him up by doing so.

Did Vang get off easy? His family was interviewed and his mother was shown crying hysterically. Just think how much his family is suffering because of his crime --- they suffer and it was his stupidity that caused it! Even if he doesn't give a damn about the victims of his gunfire, he will have the rest of his life to think over how much harm he caused his family. If Wisconsin had capital punishment he would not have to suffer this. On that basis, I would say that the legal remedy offered by the state in the form of life long confinement is adequate punishment.
 

Nascar_James

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Re: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

gopher said:
"what would it have taken to transfer this guy to Federal Court? "


Before a Federal court could take legal cognizance of a case, a defendant must be shown to have violated a Federal statute. For example, had it been shown that he illegally took weapons across a state border in order to commit any illegal acts, a Federal statute could have been applied. The facts show that he carried legal weapons across the border in order to engage in hunting which was legal activity in Heyward, Wisconsin. The area in which this sad event occurred was a State park and only local authorities were involved in his detention.

Federal civil rights statutes were not shown to have been violated though (strangely enough) Vang's family attempted to use this as a defense! They said that he was not tried by a jury of his peers because he was an Asian tried by an all White jury and the area has had a very well noted reputation for its racism. Had I been Vang's lawyer I would have attempted to take the case into Federal court on that basis in another jurisdiction. I don't know why his lawyers allowed him to testify in court as he gave away tons of incriminating evidence - in all honesty, I feel they really screwed him up by doing so.

Did Vang get off easy? His family was interviewed and his mother was shown crying hysterically. Just think how much his family is suffering because of his crime --- they suffer and it was his stupidity that caused it! Even if he doesn't give a damn about the victims of his gunfire, he will have the rest of his life to think over how much harm he caused his family. If Wisconsin had capital punishment he would not have to suffer this. On that basis, I would say that the legal remedy offered by the state in the form of life long confinement is adequate punishment.

A agree Gopher. I would add to that by bringing justice to the families of the victims into the picture. In this sense, Capital Punishment would have been a far better result for this case.
 

no1important

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

Nascar_James said:
no1important said:
Glad to see some states are not barbaric like most.

I think life in prison is more of a punishment than being executed. Hell your going to die eventually so he might as well be punished while he is alive and the longer he lives the more he is punished, and he will die in jail anyways, so why end his punishment sooner?

And use our tax dollars to keep feeding this murderer??? No way!

Doesn't it cost more to execute them though? I can't figure it out why but thats what I keep hearing over the years.
 

Nascar_James

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

no1important said:
Nascar_James said:
no1important said:
Glad to see some states are not barbaric like most.

I think life in prison is more of a punishment than being executed. Hell your going to die eventually so he might as well be punished while he is alive and the longer he lives the more he is punished, and he will die in jail anyways, so why end his punishment sooner?

And use our tax dollars to keep feeding this murderer??? No way!

Doesn't it cost more to execute them though? I can't figure it out why but thats what I keep hearing over the years.

I have heard those rumors as well no1, and they are just that, rumors. It costs on average $10,000 - $25,000 per year to keep someone in prison. An individual who's 30 or 40 and is convicted of a life sentence will need to spend 30-40 years in prison. That is on average over a half million to take care of this guy in his lifetime. Way too much money to spend on a convicted murderer. I would rather give that money to the families of the victims.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

It's not a rumour, it's true. The legal costs for appeals, the time spent on death row, the extra security and so on all add up. It costs more to kill them than to to keep them alive.

The idea of killing somebody just to save money is something that only the brutal greed hogs on the radical right could come up with though. It's always the bottom line with them.
 

Nascar_James

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

Reverend Blair said:
The idea of killing somebody just to save money is something that only the brutal greed hogs on the radical right could come up with though. It's always the bottom line with them.

No it's not, Rev. It's to bring justice to the families of the victims.
 

Reverend Blair

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Re: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

And yet you said, erroneously, that it saves money to commit state-sanctioned, cold-blooded murder. You consider it a factor. You consider it a reason to kill people. You said so yourself.

All you care about is the bottom line, James. You might as well admit it. When it comes to money, you ignore the teachings of the guy your religion is named after. You ignore the likelihood of wrongful convictions. You ignore that minorities, especially African Americans, are far more likely to suffer the death penalty than white people.
 

peapod

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Re: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

Sure it does, especially when most of the time you have the wrong person for the crime :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Martin Le Acadien

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Ge

Reverend Blair said:
It's not a rumour, it's true. The legal costs for appeals, the time spent on death row, the extra security and so on all add up. It costs more to kill them than to to keep them alive.

The idea of killing somebody just to save money is something that only the brutal greed hogs on the radical right could come up with though. It's always the bottom line with them.

It might cost a million dollars or so to keep him locked up for 40+ yrs at $25,000 per year but legal fees for a death sentence can run over Two Million after all appeals are exhasted! Much cheaper to keep him in jail and let him think about it for the next 40 yrs and let him make license plates, grow food in the prison farm or do something else and let him have time to reflect on his crime.
 

gopher

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RE: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Punish

That is correct and has been thoroughly documented: legal costs, appeals, and all other legal procedure take up much more costs than it does as compared to lifelong incarceration.

And, of course, we have seen innumerable cases over the years in which innocent people have been held for years only to have been wrongly convicted. No justice wlil ever be done for those who were wrongly executed.
 

Nascar_James

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Pu

gopher said:
That is correct and has been thoroughly documented: legal costs, appeals, and all other legal procedure take up much more costs than it does as compared to lifelong incarceration.

And, of course, we have seen innumerable cases over the years in which innocent people have been held for years only to have been wrongly convicted. No justice wlil ever be done for those who were wrongly executed.

I've always wondered how the cost for the appeal process would be so high? Aside from the cost of the actual execution, I would think the only extra costs would be for the public defender. The judges and other court officials pay shouldn't really count because they'd most likely be at work anyways if the appeal was made or not. In addition, some prisoners abandon the appeal process.
 

Martin Le Acadien

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Re: RE: Convicted Murderer Gets Off Easy- Escapes Capital Pu

Nascar_James said:
I've always wondered how the cost for the appeal process would be so high? Aside from the cost of the actual execution, I would think the only extra costs would be for the public defender. The judges and other court officials pay shouldn't really count because they'd most likely be at work anyways if the appeal was made or not. In addition, some prisoners abandon the appeal process.

For the first matter, you must DEATH PENALTY CERTIFIED lawyers anytime you try a capitol murder case, COST $125,000 for this highly specialized legal team (No, not every District Attorney has even one Death Penalty Certified Attorney on staff because the cost and certification standards are horrendous).

Second, even if you get a Death Penalty Verdict, a mandatory appeal is in order as required by the Supreme Court! This can cost another $125,000 as well.

Third, the defence Attorney must also be DP Certified. Guess who pays his $125,000 fee!

Hell, by the time you add up defense costs and time for the trial, you have run up a bill for a million dollars if you are lucky. We had a capitol case here in South Louisiana the District Attorney was glad to plea down to life, its a money saver.

As far as Prisioners dropping their appeals, its a sport in the system to keep them going, no telling when you might get lucky! Prisoners can file for free and have access to a Law Library as well as the services of a Notary. Hell, they sue if their Candy is ruined so it doesn't stop!