#1May 30th, 2005
Came across this on another board.
My question, why stop there?? Why not just a United States of the World??
United North America
Came across this on another board.
My question, why stop there?? Why not just a United States of the World??
#2
RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005
I'm sure this guy has the full backing of Tommy D'Aquino and the Harperites.
#3
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005
Now you know how us in the EU feel. We have slowly been watching our countries' sovereignties being slowly eroded away but the North Americans think that the EU is a good thing, but when someone proposes that there should be a North American superstate the North Americans are suddenly up in arms and don't wish to see Canada and the US united together as one nation.
#4
RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005
Number one, the EU would not be a good thing for America, simply because all of this is a about power and self interest for both sides of the Atlantic.
Number two, the forces that push Europe to unify to become as strong as the United States or to become as strong as China are very powerful needy forces.
The elite leadership of each European country knows how impotent they are separately and knows how powerful they are together in a union.
They are discovering why the states united over here.
And finally number 3, NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement, as faulty as unbalanced as the EUROPEAN UNION trade agreements.
Number two, the forces that push Europe to unify to become as strong as the United States or to become as strong as China are very powerful needy forces.
The elite leadership of each European country knows how impotent they are separately and knows how powerful they are together in a union.
They are discovering why the states united over here.
And finally number 3, NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement, as faulty as unbalanced as the EUROPEAN UNION trade agreements.
#5
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote:
The EU is a good thing for Canada though, Blackleaf. It helps to balance the power of the United States. The danger is that the corporate elites point to the EU as a good example of what could be done here, but that is refuted both by the steps taken to limit the power of any single member of the EU (which is not possible here because of the disparity between the size of the US and Canada) and the threats to sovereignty that EU nations have suffered in spite of steps taken to counterract inequities.Now you know how us in the EU feel. We have slowly been watching our countries' sovereignties being slowly eroded away but the North Americans think that the EU is a good thing, but when someone proposes that there should be a North American superstate the North Americans are suddenly up in arms and don't wish to see Canada and the US united together as one nation.
In short, the EU serves both as a balance and a bad example. That is very useful to Canadians who oppose deep integration with the US.
#6
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf
There is a huge difference between Europe and North America. Europe is comprised of several equally large (area and population) states. Whereas Canada and US, although similar in size, have a huge difference in population. This would inevitable lead to us to being consumed by the US.Now you know how us in the EU feel. We have slowly been watching our countries' sovereignties being slowly eroded away but the North Americans think that the EU is a good thing, but when someone proposes that there should be a North American superstate the North Americans are suddenly up in arms and don't wish to see Canada and the US united together as one nation.
If Canada had 300 million folk instead of 32, this would be a very smart thing to do. You can't compare the two, totally different dynamics. If there was a two nation union, Canada would feel just like Quebec does in Canada, except it would be ten times worse.
Now if there was some sort of unions of the Americas spanning from Alert to Tierra del Fuego, I'd be all for that.
#7
RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005
Even with a union for all of the Americas, steps would still have to be taken to mitigate US dominance, DasFX. Their trade policies are very predatory, especially since Bush took over, and their military and economic power are being used to undermine the sovereignty of other nations even without an official agreement.
#8
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by passpatoo
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/
Came across this on another board.
Doesn't it fit into what people like to call progressive?
Free Thinker
#9
RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005
The EU vs. United States of North America is a totally different scenario. Canada and the United States are almost polar opposites of political stature. In Canada, we put value on different aspects of life than the US. We are (while some argue the opposite) totally different culturally in that most Canadians accept multiculturalism while there is still a lot of segregation in the U.S.
European integration is good for all sides, in my opinion. Yes, there's downfalls. But there's no downfalls in a Canada-US union... Canada it's self would be the downfall because of our population and social policies.
European integration is good for all sides, in my opinion. Yes, there's downfalls. But there's no downfalls in a Canada-US union... Canada it's self would be the downfall because of our population and social policies.
#10
Re: RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Andem
The EU vs. United States of North America is a totally different scenario. Canada and the United States are almost polar opposites of political stature. In Canada, we put value on different aspects of life than the US. We are (while some argue the opposite) totally different culturally in that most Canadians accept multiculturalism while there is still a lot of segregation in the U.S.
European integration is good for all sides, in my opinion. Yes, there's downfalls. But there's no downfalls in a Canada-US union... Canada it's self would be the downfall because of our population and social policies.
But....If the provinces were treated as states, under their constitution we, as separate states, could have our own identities. Maybe?
#11
Re: RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Andem
Americans accept multiculturalism as well. Look at CNN, there's a man and woman of every race on that show. They named a month "Black History Month" and a day "Chinese History Day." They are definitely multi-cultural.The EU vs. United States of North America is a totally different scenario. Canada and the United States are almost polar opposites of political stature. In Canada, we put value on different aspects of life than the US. We are (while some argue the opposite) totally different culturally in that most Canadians accept multiculturalism while there is still a lot of segregation in the U.S.
Moving along, Canada and America are defintiely polar political opposites. Canada favors a more centralized form of government that gives all power to a single body (the senate is elected by the parliament, as are judges and committees). America is decentralized and puts all power in the hands of three legislative (presidency, senate, and congress) branches and two judiciary branches.
Nothing would ever pass in Canada if we had this kind of system. And yet if America had our kind of system the Republicans would win three times as much as they do now.
A union strictly between America and Canada would not work. Add in the rest of North America (including Cuba) and add in some similar legislation with what they have in EU (1 country = 1 vote) and it could work. BUT, a two union confederacy will never succeed.
This site gives some really odd pros for Canada joining:
Quote:
A decrease in taxes means a decrease in services.Reduction in taxes by up to 50%.
Elimination of red tape, customs and duties on trade (US is Canada's largest trading partner), and increase in trade/commerce within North America.
Reduction in all costs for products that originate from the USA (73% of Canada's imports).
Increase in industrial and consumer goods available (eg. machine parts, clothing & apparel, fruits), and thus reduce costs for the average consumer.
Significant increases in funding on the federal level in all areas (eg. technological, medical, infrastructure, military)
Increase in national security by means of a uniform continental defense perimeter, and elimination of border guards at the Canadian border, so that they may be used in more important areas (eg. airports, harbors and Mexican border).
Increase in job opportunities in present-day Canada during transition stage (eg. tax & law specialists, city planners) and afterwards due to economic stimulus from merger.
Increase in health care quality.
Gain ability to choose a President in 'national' elections, and participate in a Triple-E Senate.
Gain a seat in the strongest and most powerful nation on the planet, and thus have a voice within it.
Reduce debt burden .
Attain a stronger economy and nation.
Most red tape on the border is gone through NAFTA.
Canada chooses a Prime Minister via choosing a representitive so choosing a President would not be that grand.
Finally the second last one, if we merge our nations we would also inherit America's national debt. Ours will be paid off in about 20 years, there's won't be paid off until the next millennia.
#12
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Derry McKinney
The Europeans aren't interested in what is good for Canada, only Europe, as it should be.The EU is a good thing for Canada though, Blackleaf.
Quote: Originally Posted by DasFX
Here are some examples to what you say DasFX, and rethink your argument;There is a huge difference between Europe and North America. Europe is comprised of several equally large (area and population) states. Whereas Canada and US, although similar in size, have a huge difference in population. This would inevitable lead to us to being consumed by the US.
Cyprus - 950,947
Italy - 58,608,565
Malta - 384, 594
Austria - 8,163,782
Germany - 82,726,188
Greece - 11,212,468
Quote: Originally Posted by Derry McKinney
Their trade policies are very predatory.
--
When the EU was founded, it was meant to be an economic trading bloc, nothing more. Then certain "forces" as jimmoyer suggested, decided if there is to be any way to stand up to the US, it would be in a form of political union. However, the EU would be run by the more powerful countires and those with a greater population. Namely France and Germany.
As for this link suggesting the merger of Canada and the US, its one person expressing his opinion. If any of you bother to search for any statistics you will see the thing both Canadian and Americans agree on, is not join the US and Canada, by a whopping 85% on both sides. Pew Research Center.
The most interesting aspect I find, is that neither side of the border understands or knows much of the other, despite our proximity.
#13
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf
Thanks for the warning Blackleaf. Now you know how us in the EU feel. We have slowly been watching our countries' sovereignties being slowly eroded away but the North Americans think that the EU is a good thing, but when someone proposes that there should be a North American superstate the North Americans are suddenly up in arms and don't wish to see Canada and the US united together as one nation.
IF 9-11 was set up by BushCo [and the Israelis?-other thread], and
IF the War on Iraq is about Oil, and
IF all the other crimes and tactics furthering the agenda of the Elites or RW fundies are "coming from or going thru the White House", its essential for Canada to remain as soveriegn as possible, the world is holding its breath hoping that we do.
furthermore, please help me stop yakkin', as the saying goes:
There is strong majority of North Americans who feel they are not being heard, that the direction of political agendas is "not what they would do". Heck, its global. The world of politics has been hi-jacked and we MUST try to get it back. And the centre of the crime is the American's White House.
Some can't believe its not for our good
Some agree to follow the propaganda because they cant admit they were ever wrong.
Nobody can swallow the corruption tho - thats our own money!! That may be the downfall of the Elites - their greed gets caught and thats what makes the people rise up. But its not happening yet, people are still voting for the mainstream parties and being proper little consumers and workers no matter what the details involve. Do it right ok? Dont play along like Nazi kids beating Jews - it aint right and it aint raight.
Karlin
#14
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Karlin
Which world is that? its essential for Canada to remain as soveriegn as possible, the world is holding its breath hoping that we do.
Quote: Originally Posted by Karlin
More evil empire theoriesAnd the centre of the crime is the American's White House.
#15
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005
Sorry ITN but I'll stay Canadian I want no part of being an American citizen 
No to a Pan Pacific Union and I'll go down guns a blazing for the cause 
No to a Pan Pacific Union and I'll go down guns a blazing for the cause #16
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by mrmom2
As for this link suggesting the merger of Canada and the US, its one person expressing his opinion. If any of you bother to search for any statistics you will see the thing both Canadian and Americans agree on, is not join the US and Canada, by a whopping 85% on both sides. Pew Research Center. Sorry ITN but I'll stay Canadian I want no part of being an American citizen
I guess you missed that part mrmom. Welcome back btw
#17
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote:
Nice attempt at evasion there, I think not. It doesn't make the trade practices of the US any less predatory though. Roll your eyes and call me anti-American, try to evade the truth. It changes nothing.
Rolling Eyes
--
Quote:
Apparently you aren't familiar with the push for deep integration by our busines and political elites. They are moving towards it no matter what the people think of it.As for this link suggesting the merger of Canada and the US, its one person expressing his opinion. If any of you bother to search for any statistics you will see the thing both Canadian and Americans agree on, is not join the US and Canada, by a whopping 85% on both sides. Pew Research Center.
#18
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Derry McKinney
Quote:
Quote has been trimmed
Rolling Eyes
http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/041108121930.3tulm2cqNice attempt at evasion there, I think not. It doesn't make the trade practices of the US any less predatory though. Roll your eyes and call me anti-American, try to evade the truth. It changes nothing.
Thats right, it doesn't change anything, you are anti-American
Quote: As for this link suggesting the merger of Canada and the US, its one person expressing his opinion. If any of you bother to search for any statistics you will see the thing both Canadian and Americans agree on, is not join the US and Canada, by a whopping 85% on both sides. Pew Research Center.Apparently you aren't familiar with the push for deep integration by our busines and political elites. They are moving towards it no matter what the people think of it.
That apparently is your problem. Vote them out and NDP in.
#19
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote:
Try to spin it that way if you want. The truth is that US trade policies have hurt American workers as much as they have hurt Canadians. They benefit the corporate elite at the expense of all others. Criticizing those policies is pro-American, not anti-American.Thats right, it doesn't change anything, you are anti-American
#20
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Derry McKinney
Sure there. You're a model of being Pro-American.Quote:Try to spin it that way if you want. The truth is that US trade policies have hurt American workers as much as they have hurt Canadians. They benefit the corporate elite at the expense of all others. Criticizing those policies is pro-American, not anti-American.Thats right, it doesn't change anything, you are anti-American
#21
RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005
Yes, criticizing the policies of the American government makes me anti-American. That those polices have a negative on the world, including many Americans, has nothing to with it.
Give it up, think not.
Give it up, think not.
#22
Re: RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Derry McKinney
You're so full of ****. Whoever pays you to do research must demand as a pre-requisite of being anti-American.Yes, criticizing the policies of the American government makes me anti-American. That those polices have a negative on the world, including many Americans, has nothing to with it.
Give it up, think not.
What you perceive as negative others perceive as positive.
Can't give it up. We need to make sure people like you are in check.
#23
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005
Mom, deputize me, I am riding with you...we can both ride the bomb down together:P
Major T.J. 'King' Kong aka peapod
Major T.J. 'King' Kong aka peapod
#24
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote:
I'm a goat farmer, think not.You're so full of ****. Whoever pays you to do research must demand as a pre-requisite of being anti-American.
Quote:
What I perceive is that you are incapable of facing the truth...that your government garners criticism because of their policies and that those who are afraid of reality scream "anti-American" because they will not examine the truth.What you perceive as negative others perceive as positive.
Quote:
People like me? How the hell would you know what I'm like?Can't give it up. We need to make sure people like you are in check.
#25
RE: United North America
May 30th, 2005
The site advocates Canada joining the US, not a ''new'' union.
#27
Re: United North America
May 30th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Derry McKinney
Quote:I'm a goat farmer, think not.You're so full of ****. Whoever pays you to do research must demand as a pre-requisite of being anti-American.
Really? A few have said repeatedly you get paid for research. Error?
Quote:What I perceive is that you are incapable of facing the truth...that your government garners criticism because of their policies and that those who are afraid of reality scream "anti-American" because they will not examine the truth.What you perceive as negative others perceive as positive.
Opinion and views do not constitute truth
Quote:People like me? How the hell would you know what I'm like?Can't give it up. We need to make sure people like you are in check.
A narrow-minded person living in a bubble. Anything beyond your sphere of reality constitutes some sort of agenda
#30
Re: United North America
May 31st, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by I think not
Nice post.Quote: Originally Posted by KarlinWhich world is that?its essential for Canada to remain as soveriegn as possible, the world is holding its breath hoping that we do.
Quote: Originally Posted by KarlinMore evil empire theoriesAnd the centre of the crime is the American's White House.
Similar Threads
1201
2
1
29